Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 02:59:20 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #67 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Giant q-tips (David Weller) 2. teaching methods (Don Ross) 3. Re: Cutting weight (Ray) 4. RE: Teaching methods... (SSHapkido@aol.com) 5. RE: teaching methods (michael tomlinson) 6. Re: Cutting weight (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: Cutting weight (Ray) 8. Teaching Methods (George Popofski) 9. teaching methods (Robert Martin) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: David Weller Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:03:31 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Giant q-tips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I will stand firmly on the side of Mr. Tomlinson and Mr. Stovall (whose posts I do indeed miss) anyone who would call a cop over an attitude adjustment like that in a MARTIAL ARTS class.. . .. Well, shucks I just can't believe it. I carry a foam covered stick around in class (just like MY teacher did) and whack folks who are : not paying attention not guarding the noggin goofing etc etc I have done it to little helpless children with their folks right there ... ya know what? They always smile and show back up for the next class, with their kids ,,, I've even had them ask if they can borrow it. if that is abuse, then I am in line for prison. My expression for folks who feel that way has the same initials as what we talk about on the Dojang Korean Martial Arts KMA. get it?? dave weller "of the stick carrying wellers" PS.. and thanks to master Cox & Craig "the animal" Stovall for the insight on weight cutting. Hard to understand from the outside, much easier from ya'alls perspective.. thanks !~!! On Feb 26, 2007, at 5:01 PM, the_dojang- request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > I really can't believe that some of you thought the instructor was > actually > "bullying" this student....why didn't anyone think that the student > should > of been paying more attention and listening with more focus?????? > I don't > get that...but I deal with it everyday at my own job...Bob Dylan > said the > times they are a changin but I think if he was singing that song > today he > would probably get sued by someone who was offended by the lyrics > or how the > song depressed them...I wish society would get back to > gettin........hooyah.... --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:11:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] teaching methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Luved the 'giant Q-Tip' idea. I have been known to walk through the class during kicking drills and sound off with a duck or crow call behind students who drop their hands - 'if it has its hands down like a duck...' Also have used a soft foam Halloween 'human heart' to illustrate why we keep our hands up - I would compress the heart in my fist to conceal it, then face the student with their hands down. As they executed yet one more repetition with their hands down, I would give my best kiyap, make a full speed grab toward their chest [the PC'ers can relax... NO contact whatsoever], and then open my hand and show them their 'heart' that just got ripped from their chest because their hands were down - seemed to get the point across without the annoyance of parental visits. May we hear more teaching methods from our esteemed 'graybeards' here on the list? FWIW Mr. Stovall, when I played football [and I won't say HOW long ago], we had to take our helmets to the local sporting goods store to have them drilled and the face guards installed. pil seung, Don Ross There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress. - Mark Twain --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cutting weight To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This is the exact same concept I learned while wrestling years ago....it is > basically the nature of the fighting beast....basically if you are a > seasoned fighter this is how you do it....no one fights at their training > weight....you have training weight, off season weight, and fighting > weight... Agreed. I was never good enough to have to cut. Those above me and below me on the team were much better than I was, so I just stayed at my normal weight and lost there. One of my good buds wrestled varsity at the U of Ill, a Big Ten conf school. He looked pretty good at 220. He would cut down to 176 for the season. While he was cutting it was very difficult to even carry on a conversation with him as he couldn't concentrate on any one thing for very long. Not the best place to be when you're trying to stay in college... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: SSHapkido@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:28:20 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Teaching methods... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Various quotes: "one of our new white belt students (who by the way does not have a uniform yet and was just wearing workout cloths)..." "So the question is who thinks I was out of line and need to change my evil ways and who agrees with me?" "This isn't Korea" My thoughts: Personally I agree with the father. Anyone who has been in an exercise class that I have taught knows that I don't baby the students. I expect them to work out and pay attention. If they mess up the count mid way through the second row, we start the exercise over with the front of the room and go through both rows again. Then I comment on how important it is to pay attention to your surroundings. Last week they all finished their crunches before I was 2/3 of the way through my crunches, so I had them all do my remaining crunches with me at my count...and made sure I counted them out very slowly just for my amusement. Then I commented on doing crunches slowly and getting the most out of them, not just bobbing up and down. I did once kick an adult blue belt in the back side gently with the inside of my foot because they took their partner down and were standing leaning over them rather than dropping to one knee (and I had already corrected them several times on several occasions). Much to the blue belt's surprise and mine, they were so off balance that they had no choice but to do a front roll over their partner or fall on top of them. When they popped back up and turned toward me, I shouted "Get your butt down!" To which their response was "Yes, Ma'am." But it actually scared the crap out of me, because I didn't intend to knock them over. And I realized that the spur of the moment urge to kick this student in the backside, which by all reasonable measurements they deserved, could have resulted in an unwanted injury had they not known how to roll. The blue belt learned her lesson, but it probably wasn't the brightest thing for me to do. As someone said, this isn't Korea and it isn't the 1970's either. It's 2007, the golden age of lawsuits. And kicking children (regardless of how anyone feels about it) is dangerous from that standpoint. Not to mention, you said yourself that the kid was so new that he didn't even have a uniform yet. It takes some time as an adult to learn the system and how to react, even more so for a kid who may or may want to be there anyway. The student I tapped was an adult and already respected me, so when I did what I did, she took note of her mistake and wasn't angry. This student barely knows you. Not to mention the kid and his father probably have very little understanding of the traditions of martial arts and the discipline required. It's a new learning experience for them and so far you've taught them that I'm the bully...watch out for me! So yes, I think you need to change your "evil ways." SS


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Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] teaching methods Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:14:57 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I love it....those are some good tricks to use...the foam heart is an awesome idea...jeesh it made me laugh just visualizing it...I guess the bottom line is that IF the parents believe you have their loved ones best intentions in mind then they don't look at it with that skewed whiner someone is doing us wrong attitude.....since were telling old football stuff....in High School our trainer and resident injury expert was a 9th grade coach that pulled Varsity training duty...no joke...he was a combat medic in Vietnam...this was in 1972 thru 1976 and he had just come home when he first started working with us...Mr. Burman...I will never forget him..he was a good guy...tough as week old steak and when you got hurt...well suffice to say you didn't sit out much with injuries back then..... in the long run I believe he made me a stronger person and I owe him for that... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Don Ross" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: "dojang_digest" >Subject: [The_Dojang] teaching methods >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:11:26 -0500 > > Luved the 'giant Q-Tip' idea. I have been known to walk through the >class >during kicking drills and sound off with a duck or crow call behind >students >who drop their hands - 'if it has its hands down like a duck...' Also >have >used a soft foam Halloween 'human heart' to illustrate why we keep our >hands >up - I would compress the heart in my fist to conceal it, then face the >student with their hands down. As they executed yet one more repetition >with >their hands down, I would give my best kiyap, make a full speed grab toward >their chest [the PC'ers can relax... NO contact whatsoever], and then open >my >hand and show them their 'heart' that just got ripped from their chest >because >their hands were down - seemed to get the point across without the >annoyance >of parental visits. > May we hear more teaching methods from our esteemed 'graybeards' here >on >the list? > FWIW Mr. Stovall, when I played football [and I won't say HOW long >ago], >we had to take our helmets to the local sporting goods store to have them >drilled and the face guards installed. > pil seung, >Don Ross >There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress. > - Mark Twain >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cutting weight Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:22:13 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Very true and some of those weight cutting tricks back then were brutal and I would never have anyone do them now...but those hardcore fighters still do them....I had a wrestling coach that wrestled for Ohio State back in the day so you know how those practices were that we went thru...he used to say that once you start cutting weight it does something to your mind and you WANT to wrestle someone...I know it used to make me irritable as heck,, seeing everone eating while I sat back and spit into a styrofoam cup all day long with a vinyl suit on under my jeans and t-shirt at school..sucked and I did want to beat the crap out of someone after doing that a lot.....now I just wrestle with the pizza delivery man when he is late with my double cheese and pepperoni....but I pin him everytime....LOL... Michael Tomlinson >From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cutting weight >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:33:20 -0800 (PST) > > > This is the exact same concept I learned while wrestling years ago....it >is > > basically the nature of the fighting beast....basically if you are a > > seasoned fighter this is how you do it....no one fights at their >training > > weight....you have training weight, off season weight, and fighting > > weight... > >Agreed. I was never good enough to have to cut. Those above me and below >me on the team were much better than I was, so I just stayed at my normal >weight and lost there. > >One of my good buds wrestled varsity at the U of Ill, a Big Ten conf >school. >He looked pretty good at 220. He would cut down to 176 for the season. >While he was cutting it was very difficult to even carry on a conversation >with him as he couldn't concentrate on any one thing for very long. > >Not the best place to be when you're trying to stay in college... :) > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE.  http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cutting weight To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:42:13 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Very true and some of those weight cutting tricks back then were brutal and > I would never have anyone do them now...but those hardcore fighters still do > them....I had a wrestling coach that wrestled for Ohio State back in the day > so you know how those practices were that we went thru... He probably wrestled under Coach Fredricks then. Casey Fredricks coached at OSU for 30 or 35 years. A very nice fellow and a good coach. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "George Popofski" To: Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:49:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Teaching Methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One of our instructors tapped a kid on the head with a padded kicking target to reinforce that his hands needed to be up, and the parents filed a police report against the instructor and school. The police came and questioned everybody but no charges were pressed. This was a wake up call that times have indeed changed. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:55:31 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] teaching methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The most precious possession we have as instructors are our beginning students. The need to be treated with kindness and respect. We need to give them the chance to catch on to what we, and they, are doing. Then we can give them what for! A student that constantly drops their hands will learn, first in step sparring, and later -- harder -- in free sparring. Heck, I kick students all the time but they have been around a while and it is done in the proper situation -- "Hey, you keep dropping your hands like that your going to get kicked in the head......"....whack! Another head shot. Drop them again and the same thing happens. Of course, when they try to keep their hands up protecting their head, is when the body shots go in. This doesn't necessarily make training soft. I get pissed off enough and we are going to spend a lot of time going up and down the floor with our hands up. Robert "the nice guy" Martin > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:41:31 -0800 (PST) > From: steven riggs > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] teaching methods > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I would suspect that I am not the only one who sometimes just latches > onto push ups as a means of making a point or a type of punishment. We > ought to be looking for new and better ways of getting discipline/respect > integrated into the classroom both from instructor to student and between > student to student. I recently told a young white belt that she was to go > to the side of the classroom and do 10 push ups and 10 situps for > disobeying me for 3 x in a row. After the push ups she came back in tears > saying she did not know how to do a situp. It was a learning experience > for both of us as I assumed she would make the tie to crunches. I saw > several issues in this exchange. 1. This was not a one time disobedience > factor but a repeated problem. 2. There was no malice from the instructor > in my take on this. 3. No power to do any damage was used (if an > instructor can't gauge the difference between light taps and sharp stings > then he shouldn't be teaching. 4. Let us not be > rushing to judgment on the teacher for the act alone when he stated > clearly two important factors involved. a. the student had been warned > TWO OR THREE TIMES. When I teach I expect compliance on the first > statement unless there is something that interferes such as needing to > increase my volume or a lack of clarity due to it being a new technique > etc. b. Just as importantly as the lack of compliance was the tie in to > why a martial artist would not want to have his hands in his pockets. > As I read this story I came away with the strong feeling that it was > the parent who was the problem due to a lack of discipline at home. I > have faced that on a few occasions but fortunately it has been few as I > have been blessed by a very supportive group of parents. The mother of > the young white belt listed above commented to me that I should feel free > to make her daughter "do push ups till her arms drop off if she disobeyed > me in any way as that was not the way she was taught at home" > I am willing to give the instructor the benefit of the doubt as 1. I > was not there, 2. There appeared to be no malice or anger. 3. I sensed the > intent to be aimed as being for the benefit of the student. > Steven Riggs > > Robert Martin wrote: > In my opinion you were out of line. Discipline is important but there is > a > limit to the kind of thing that can be done. I suspect that a dozen > pushups > would have gotten the point across and not upset a parent. > > FWIW, kicking a student as discipline, in this case, is a misuse of > Taekwon-Do skills. > > Robert Martin > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 9922 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest