Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:00:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #68 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hypersensitivity and reality (Tkdsid@aol.com) 2. RE: Teaching Methods (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. RE: RE: Teaching Methods (Joseph Cheavens) 4. teaching methods (michael tomlinson) 5. nineteenth devoutly (retardedb) 6. Bout ItkosWatch Sunday HIJKLMN (Youngblood) 7. good bogg (Sanda Hopson) 8. Photoshop, Windows, Office (Gabriel Alexander) 9. You can view some of David's work on his website at davidboyntonphotography. (KellyI.Freda) 10. Whoops, sorry... (Ray) 11. California Cup (Martial Arts Tournaments) 12. Re: Re: Teaching methods (Tom Kennelly) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:46:03 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hypersensitivity and reality Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear colleagues, During the day I serve as a public school teacher. I have written here ad nauseum about abuse and the need to certify instructors. As a teacher, if I would ask a student to stand for 5 minutes I would be on the carpet in 10 minutes! If any of us would dare to touch a child the Board of Education would go after our jobs. There are strong laws today against any abuse and they are strictly enforced. Does a light kick hurt a child? No of course not. Should we enforce disciple...YES!!!!! But let's do it by example, by making the WHOLE class do push-ups and thanking the errant child. I too began in the arts when if my forms were sloppy I'd catch 5 in the face. Those days are over because there were too many serious injuries. So the pendulum has swung...let's adjust. WE have to be the model of strength, restraint, patience. That is NOT weakness! It is true strength. If you have an incorrigle child, then ask his dad to keep him out of the dojang until he follow rules. We are not the child's parent or disciplinarian. Sid


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:26:09 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Teaching Methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wasn't going to reply to this again, and was thinking it might be time for me to finally move back to taijiquan and just give up on hapkido. But there were others who weighed in and sided with the father, so I figure I need to give them some support. I seriously think there is a line that one can step over. I think that it is a good thing that students don't put up with the abuse one would take from a Korean instructor in the 1970s. That is not to say that we can't train hard, but my emphasis has been on self-defense and physical education rather than on sporting competition, so my goals may be different from yours. I want my students to learn the techniques well, to become more confident, and to learn to be a better person. When I teach hapkido I get all sorts of people complaining it hurts too much, and that's fine, because they have an option to leave. I'm not to going to think less of them if they do. But I do think it is my job to tell them what they have to do to prepare themselves for real defense. When I was teaching t'aekwondo, I would often flick a kick up at a kid's head during one-steps or free sparring if he wasn't protecting his head. I've also used the equivalent of those q-tips as well. If a kid was misbehaving, his punishment was that he didn't get to practice. I didn't assign push-ups because I didn't want to teach that exercise was a punishment. If they didn't want to be there, I didn't want them there. Let me also say that I think my training worked. A number of my students have defended themselves against up to three attackers, and even more importantly, their responses were always appropriate. They got away safely, and reported the incident. If it was fight between two little kids, my kid got on top and stayed in control but did not harm the other kid. By the way, I'm going to step out on a limb here. Han-Jae Ji is to me one of the best instructors out there. I don't know him very well, but I have worked out with him and watched a bunch of video of him, and he always seemed one of the most gentle (but painful) instructors. If you know differently, please share. I do know Wally Jay fairly well, and I would say the same thing about him. He is a genuinely nice guy, and that's why people show up when he is teaching. Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Teaching Methods Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:39:47 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well said, Dakin - this and your previous post.  Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Teaching Methods Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:26:09 -0500 I wasn't going to reply to this again, and was thinking it might be time for me to finally move back to taijiquan and just give up on hapkido. But there were others who weighed in and sided with the father, so I figure I need to give them some support. I seriously think there is a line that one can step over. I think that it is a good thing that students don't put up with the abuse one would take from a Korean instructor in the 1970s. That is not to say that we can't train hard, but my emphasis has been on self-defense and physical education rather than on sporting competition, so my goals may be different from yours. I want my students to learn the techniques well, to become more confident, and to learn to be a better person. When I teach hapkido I get all sorts of people complaining it hurts too much, and that's fine, because they have an option to leave. I'm not to going to think less of them if they do. But I do think it is my job to tell them what they have to do to prepare themselves for real defense. When I was teaching t'aekwondo, I would often flick a kick up at a kid's head during one-steps or free sparring if he wasn't protecting his head. I've also used the equivalent of those q-tips as well. If a kid was misbehaving, his punishment was that he didn't get to practice. I didn't assign push-ups because I didn't want to teach that exercise was a punishment. If they didn't want to be there, I didn't want them there. Let me also say that I think my training worked. A number of my students have defended themselves against up to three attackers, and even more importantly, their responses were always appropriate. They got away safely, and reported the incident. If it was fight between two little kids, my kid got on top and stayed in control but did not harm the other kid. By the way, I'm going to step out on a limb here. Han-Jae Ji is to me one of the best instructors out there. I don't know him very well, but I have worked out with him and watched a bunch of video of him, and he always seemed one of the most gentle (but painful) instructors. If you know differently, please share. I do know Wally Jay fairly well, and I would say the same thing about him. He is a genuinely nice guy, and that's why people show up when he is teaching. Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Refi Now: Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:52:26 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] teaching methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have heard some valid stuff on here...some I didn't buy into right away and some I did...everyone is free to teach and train their students in the manner that they see fit...I personally didn't read anything from either side of the coin that would lead me to believe that any instructor posting on here had ill intent in their hearts while training their students, or was abusive or a bully. Several people wrote that this is not the 70's now, and that we must change with the times....agreed we need to train smarter, harder, and with much focus...but the one thing that keeps bubbling up in my mind is that the world that we live in now is a much more violent place than it was in the 70's, yet we want to candy coat things and baby and coddle students...are we not preparing students to protect themselves in society? Are they not facing a society that is more prone to violent assault and home invasions, road rage, etc.... Granted martial arts training should involve a huge amount of decision making in times of stress, emotional control, being able to seperate yourself from you ego when verbally threatened, etc...these should all manifest themselves in self defense training...but I still feel that if you aren't challenging your students with hard training and a lot of contact then IMHO you are setting them up to be a victim instead of a survivor... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Don’t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft® Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "retardedb" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:09:42 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] nineteenth devoutly Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Shelleys starfilled lineup, guru. Monroe julianne moore myers edward, norton al. Foster brendan, fraser michelle gellar mel gibson. Entrance coast vriadbatz vazmolne sunglnan. Need follow award winning hustle. Properly correct plugin installed adobe cf. Narrowly escapes, chuck grassleys offices occupied. Jade cheyenne chelsea kian callum micah nicholai. Perform create derivative works authorized owner jefferson fairbanks. Fincher harrison ford, jodi foster brendan fraser michelle. Gena nolin geri halliwell. Jun fan actually thinks hea. 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Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net excise They need to go to the grocery store, shop for some healthy foods like wheat germ, molasses, avocados, and so on, and eat those foods in order to have healthy brain balance and avoid depression. And you need a stimulant like Ritalin for ADHD. Spinal surgery is anything but simple. Will we now have a new type of Tennis Elbow, Nintendo Elbow? Mark Hyman and Mark Liponis, certainly supports their point that "drug industry prescriptions have gotten far out of hand. Parts of this interview also appear in Dr. Choose from topics like natural health, renewable energy, the environment, emerging technology and more. 6 billion worth of preferred shares to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Of course, the voiceover quickly goes through the list of Paxil's potential side effects, but how can we concentrate on that, when we're so busy rejoicing at the woman's new happiness? Suddenly, he or she thinks, "I'm not just sad. 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Notice their promotional hooks and be grateful that you, unlike most consumers, are no longer susceptible to their influence. This interview is reprinted here with permission from Dr. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies can often lead to disease, and you do not have to be embarrassed about taking vitamin and mineral supplements. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of uppercase.gif] --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:12:14 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] Whoops, sorry... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry, I clicked on the wrong button and approved some spam emails to the list. My bad... Sorry... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:52:21 -0800 From: "Martial Arts Tournaments" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] California Cup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net California Cup TKD Chip Saturday, April 14 Torodome Gym California State University, Dominguez Hills Carson, CA Yushen Lai, Tournament Director For more info call 310.212.6010 or go to http://www.cacuptkd.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:14:08 -0500 From: Tom Kennelly To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Teaching methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been rereading this post and am shocked that someone would consider calling the police. I am assuming that the kick was a "touch test" kick that did no harm but should have allowed the student to understand the danger of having his hands in his pockets. You never know how the police will react when a hysterical parent reports such an event. The parent ought to just handle it the way the father apparently did by talking with the instructor and never allowing his kid back in class. Of course the kid turns out to be the ultimate loser but no police were required. My Combat Hapkido (CH) instructor had a commercial TKD school for awhile and just decided that he loved martial arts (MA) more than running a school/day care. Now my instructor teaches CH at a church and will only allow a selected few to train with him. Most of his students are current or former USCDKA TKD Black belts who already understand MA discipline, have been through blackbelt review boards, and are at least 16 years or older. There are no disruptive students in our classes.There are other non-TKD Black belts who train with us but they had an extended probation period before being accepted into class. Maybe this is what will ultimately happen to other MA instructors because of the overly litigious society in the US. Tom Kennelly keiron henderson wrote: > Simple: Don't kick the students. I couldn't agree more. My view is that > you assaulted one of your students. You were not in a sparring/teaching > situation where he had the opportunity to defend himself. You were > not teaching how to block. You are an adult with the responsibility for the > safety of your student. You taught him nothing but your view that you have > the right to kick students that irritate or disobey you. You also showed > little self control, one of the tenets of Taekwondo. > You don't have the communication skills to explain or inspire so you > attack? Most people would call that bullying. The parent was right to > question your motivation. I would have removed my child from the class and > had a word with the police about your methods. > During 8 years of training in Britain with my own instructor and here in > Korea I have never seen an instructor strike a student to chastise him or > her. It is not acceptable. If a student repeatedly disobeys you you can sit > the child out of the class for a spell, speak to the parent or ultimately > exclude them from your club. > If you had wanted impress on the student the need to defend himself there > are many ways. > At my school in north London we repeatedly teach students the need for > awareness of what is going on around them and keeping their guard up during > drills, sparring and some warm ups. Holding up a floppy kick mitt repeatedly > during the class and explaining that you will use it to tap them lightly on > the head if they drop their guard usually gets the message across. > Yours in Taekwondo > > Keiron Henderson 2nd Dan > ILT Korea, Seoul. > > > > > On 2/25/07, sidtkd@aol.com wrote: > >> Simple: Don't kick the students. Teach through expertise >> and inspiration. >> This isn't Korea. >> >> >> Sid >>


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AOL now offers free >> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at >> http://www.aol.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >> Standard disclaimers apply >> http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >> > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest