Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:35:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #83 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Teaching Methods (Joseph Cheavens) 2. Re: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) (Christian Briggs) 3. RE: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) (Stovall, Craig) 4. Foreigner's View of Korea (The_Dojang) 5. Re: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (The_Dojang) 6. Article Query: Why I hate the TMA (E. Montgomery) 7. RE: Teaching Methods (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 8. Re: Article Query: Why I hate the TMA (Christian Briggs) 9. Re: RE: Teaching Methods (Jye nigma) 10. Re: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (michael tomlinson) 11. RE: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) (Stovall, Craig) 12. Re: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (jay.oconnor@comcast.net) 13. Pancakes (Hapkido) 14. Re: Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) (=?UTF-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=) 15. Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (Don Kirsch) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Teaching Methods Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:46:16 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't think that Dakin was advocating ignoring discipline, but questioning the efficacy and morality of corporal punishment as a means of achieving it. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "rwood" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Teaching Methods Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:01:59 -0500 This exchange of ideas on teaching methods has generated a lot of discussion. Mr. Dakin I do not believe Jye was advocating a return to a Spartan form of rule. While you are willing to be harsh and IMHO overly critical with Jye, I wonder do you take your students to task with the same passion. The Chinese philosopher Confucius once complained that the youth of his day were unruly, rude, disobedient, and prone to laziness. Much in the same way we are doing now. I am a public school teacher and my job is to supervise the Outside School Suspension Program. In other words the students that come to my classroom have be remove from school for behavioral issues. The consular and I remind ourselves on almost a daily basis that we see only 1 to 3 percent of the students. Meaning 99 to 97 percent are dong their work and following the rules. I am also undergoing the instructor course (24 hours of classroom time and 120 hours internship under a certified instructor) for the MA system I belong to, and find that most of the discussion goes toward motivation and retentions. Yes, any MA school would want the students to stay, however there may coma a time when it would be in the best interest of the other student, the school, and the business for some student to be asked to leave. I know that is harsh, however if a student is monopolizing your time, due to behavioral issues, then the other students are not getting their monies worth. We can only instruct those who want to learn. Proverbs 29:15 (NASB) The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother. The “rod” spoken here is disciple, which MUST start at home for children and the “reproof” is a warning. Simply put the individual needs to be warned of the consciences of unacceptable behaviors, and if those behaviors manifest then the consciences must be applied. This is paramount in the home, the public schools, MA school, the place work ,etc. IHS, Robert L. Wood, Supervisor, OSS Program I am careful not to confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is God’s business. – Michael J. Fox This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Christian Briggs" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:56:34 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My response to the article. Ok...If you ONLY want to be a fighter then that's all you need to do. I tell my students all the time. Being a black belt does not make you a good fighter, and you definitely don't need to be a black belt to be a good fighter. So train at want you want. However, I do believe that martial ARTS teaches more than fighting techniques. Honor, respect, humility etc. etc. Martial Arts mimic life. The struggle and determination to attain better skills directly mirrors the struggles in life. And as a recovering Fat Man, I do find it funny to watch "chubby masters"...at the same time, sweat drips off my face by almost thinking about sparring. I can however make it through a few rounds before I completely keel over. There are a few random thoughts on an interesting article I look forward to reading everyone else's responses...should be quite fascinating Have a nice day Chris --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:27:02 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Actually, I thought it was D'gweondo...or some such thing that I can't say with my Arkansas tongue. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:57:02 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Foreigner's View of Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Foreigner's View of Korea; Taekwondo Opens Foreign Eyes to Korea The Korea Times By Rebecca Coales Contributing Writer When a friend back home in England suggested that I try taekwondo while in Korea, I laughed. ``I don't even like kung-fu movies,'' I said, ``so why would I want to learn a martial art?'' I wasn't an obvious candidate for learning taekwondo when I moved to Korea to teach English. But one week into my new job, I joined my preschool taekwondo class at a local gym, raising giggles as I wheezed my way through the warm-up activities. Despite feeling exhausted, I was captivated by the vibrant and friendly atmosphere and signed up a few months later with two foreign co-workers and a Korean friend. Five months on, I'm in no doubt that learning Korea's national sport has made my time here one of the most rewarding and challenging experiences of my life. Aside from the obvious health benefits, I've gained an insight into daily life in Korea that has given me a better understanding of Korea's fascinating, if not a little bewildering culture. Known as the foot (tae) and fist (kwon) art (do), taekwondo combines physical training with moral and spiritual coaching. It has a worldwide following, but here in Korea it seems so much more than just a game: it's a way of life. The training adheres to Confucian moral traditions and through daily training students develop self-confidence, courtesy and respect. Within a mixed group of 10 to 18-year-olds we strive to kick, punch and block our way through the eight basic levels to reach our first black belt. We've not yet been unleashed on each other, but the exhilarating pleasure of pinewood snapping under the force of a punch, or the pleasing crack of a kick against a padded mitt, is second to none. Mercifully, we older students are excused a little during the warm-ups, when our unyielding bodies groan amongst the throng of healthy, athletic youngsters. But we're given no special treatment. The lessons are performed entirely in Korean and although my language skills generally extend little beyond what I use for my daily existence, my taekwondo vocabulary is growing. We're the first foreigners to attend the gym and in spite of the considerable obstacles of unfamiliar language and culture, I feel so at ease with my new friends that they've become like my Korean family. I've been welcomed with unparalleled warmth and generosity of spirit by my instructors, both during the lessons and socially when we practice our drinking and singing skills. We've also unintentionally become role models for the younger boys and girls in our class. As we passed our latest belt test with flying colors, the senior master told us that not only were we progressing well, but showed a humbleness and dedication which he hopes will rub-off on a few of the young ones. It's refreshing to have found a place in Korea where I no longer feel like a conspicuous foreigner and more significantly, where I can become a student myself. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:58:48 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This article should stir up your readers. If you want soem photos, please > let me know. Boy, I certainly can't wait to see those photos... :) Just a basic troll post, typical of what you see in rec.martial-farts. {sic} Ignore... Ray --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Montgomery" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I hate the TMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow. Do you think that guy ever gets his elbow stuck in his ear while he is patting himself on the back? _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:39:12 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Teaching Methods Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Robert Wood wrote: >Mr. Dakin I do not believe Jye was advocating a return to a Spartan form of rule. While you are willing to be harsh and IMHO overly critical with Jye, I wonder do you take your students to task with the same passion. My reply: You are probably right that I was being too harsh with Jye, but I wanted to try to stop any further discussion of the Spartans as exemplars for our times, particularly with the new movie coming out. Do I take my students "to task?" Probably not, because that would imply that I bully them intellectually, which I don't agree with. But I do insist on high standards of behavior for them, especially because what I teach can hurt people badly. I don't want to be responsible for training someone to hurt others. Robert continues: Yes, any MA school would want the students to stay, however there may coma a time when it would be in the best interest of the other student, the school, and the business for some student to be asked to leave. I know that is harsh, however if a student is monopolizing your time, due to behavioral issues, then the other students are not getting their monies worth. My reply: I completely agree. I also agree that discipline is necessary, but I wouldn't use the phrase "spare the rod...", if only because some people take that literally. And I think that self-discipline on the part of the instructor is essential in modeling proper behavior for the students. When I did use push-ups as a punishment, years ago, I always made sure I did the push-ups too, because I figured I was responsible for my student's behavior. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Christian Briggs" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I hate the TMA Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:07:48 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes...perhaps he could have paid a bit more attention to the whole "HUMILITY" that is taught in TMA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Montgomery" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:02 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I hate the TMA > Wow. Do you think that guy ever gets his elbow stuck in his ear while he > is > patting himself on the back? > _____________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free > Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:17:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Teaching Methods To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That would be ok IF I was trying to glorify the spartans in my post. ALso, teachers can't stop or control a pupil's behavior. Parents are supposed to layout the foundation, a teacher can only ATTEMPT to influence the pupil positively. Jye "Burdick, Dakin Robert" wrote: My reply: You are probably right that I was being too harsh with Jye, but I wanted to try to stop any further discussion of the Spartans as exemplars for our times, --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:01:42 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think that guy is awesome!! To write that much about how great you are....he has really learned a lot about life in all his studies..... Michael Tomlinson >From: The_Dojang >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:58:48 -0700 > >>This article should stir up your readers. If you want soem photos, please >>let me know. > >Boy, I certainly can't wait to see those photos... :) > >Just a basic troll post, typical of what you see in rec.martial-farts. >{sic} > >Ignore... > >Ray >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:06:27 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Ummmmmmm, yeah. I've done the "TMA thing" with the belts, and the bowing, and the forms, and the foreign language. I've done the progressive "modern martial arts thing" (JKD, Kali, Silat, Muay Thai, boxing, etc) with the sweat pants, and the lack of rituals, and the American terminology, and the techniques geared toward more "street" applications. And finally, I've found my current home in MMA as a coach and a competitor...with the sweat, and the blood, and the battling, and the constant technical refinements, and the hardcore conditioning. What I've learned is this...if you really LOVE what you do, then you don't concern yourself with what others do...you're too damned busy for that. So, while articles like this are entertaining they still smack of "I've got a better pot to piss in" attitudes, and carry their own dogmatic baggage concerning what is good/real/valuable. Wow...you're a tough guy...good for you!!! Well, not everybody wants to be a tough guy, and that's a good thing. There's already too many tough guys in the world. Why do you hate TMA? Can't see the value in it, or do you just see what you want to see? If there weren't so many fat black belts out there then you wouldn't have anything to compare yourself to know would you? You should post this at an MMA list...you're sure to find some 19-year-old kid with a Chuck Liddell t-shirt that will give you the virtual reach around and tell you what an old school badass you are. Craig "I'm only intolerant of intolerance" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 12 From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:14:30 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My sarcasm meter spun so hard and fast, I think it popped a spring... -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "michael tomlinson" > I think that guy is awesome!! To write that much about how great you > are....he has really learned a lot about life in all his studies..... > Michael > Tomlinson > > > >From: The_Dojang > >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA > >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:58:48 -0700 > > > >>This article should stir up your readers. If you want soem photos, please > >>let me know. > > > >Boy, I certainly can't wait to see those photos... :) > > > >Just a basic troll post, typical of what you see in rec.martial-farts. > >{sic} > > > >Ignore... > > > >Ray > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office > Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:30:28 -0700 From: Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pancakes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anyone have info about this International Hap Ki Do Martial Arts tourney? ======================================== Pancake breakfast to help fund Korea trip Battle Creek, MI An all-you-can-eat pancake breakfast will be held from 8 a.m. to noon Saturday in the Harper Creek High Creek School cafeteria. The cost is $7 for adults; $5 for children ages 6 to 12; kids 5 and younger, free. Proceeds will go toward the costs of a trip to South Korea for area Korean martial arts students to attend the 2007 International Hap Ki Do Martial Arts Competition. Demonstrations will be given at the breakfast by students from 9 to 11 a.m. The Korean Martial Arts Community Project Fund, held at the Battle Creek Community Foundation, has been established to provide a fundraising platform to send a team of athletes to the competition. --__--__-- Message: 14 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) From: "=?UTF-8?B?Q2hpcCBNYXV0eg==?=" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 21:32:48 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now THAT'S a good read. Chip - white belt for life... Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Stovall, Craig" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:06:27 To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA (fwd) <<>> Ummmmmmm, yeah. I've done the "TMA thing" with the belts, and the bowing, and the forms, and the foreign language. I've done the progressive "modern martial arts thing" (JKD, Kali, Silat, Muay Thai, boxing, etc) with the sweat pants, and the lack of rituals, and the American terminology, and the techniques geared toward more "street" applications. And finally, I've found my current home in MMA as a coach and a competitor...with the sweat, and the blood, and the battling, and the constant technical refinements, and the hardcore conditioning. What I've learned is this...if you really LOVE what you do, then you don't concern yourself with what others do...you're too damned busy for that. So, while articles like this are entertaining they still smack of "I've got a better pot to piss in" attitudes, and carry their own dogmatic baggage concerning what is good/real/valuable. Wow...you're a tough guy...good for you!!! Well, not everybody wants to be a tough guy, and that's a good thing. There's already too many tough guys in the world. Why do you hate TMA? Can't see the value in it, or do you just see what you want to see? If there weren't so many fat black belts out there then you wouldn't have anything to compare yourself to know would you? You should post this at an MMA list...you're sure to find some 19-year-old kid with a Chuck Liddell t-shirt that will give you the virtual reach around and tell you what an old school badass you are. Craig "I'm only intolerant of intolerance" Stovall _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:55:44 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Article Query: Why I Hate TMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gee, Antonio...I'm not sure what the point of your post was but if you profess to be an author please start checking your grammar and using a spell checker. Just my opinion, Don Kirsch --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest