>From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #96 - 15 msgs >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:53:07 -0800 > >Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to > the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net > >You can reach the person managing the list at > the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." > > ><<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> > >Serving the Internet since June 1994. >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. >2,200 members. > >See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine >for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com > >Pil Seung! > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Testing Procedures (michael tomlinson) > 2. Re: Light of day (sidtkd@aol.com) > 3. re: Hackworth (Frank Clay) > 4. RE: Testing Procedures (Dana Vaillancourt) > 5. Testing Procedures (Artcrane) > 6. Re: re: Hackworth (Ray) > 7. Testing Procedures (vincenttkd@sbcglobal.net) > 8. AMERICAN$ again welcome (Ray) > 9. Testing Procedures (Dennis McHenry) > 10. Private Tests (Luther Veuleman) > 11. testing procedures (Mark Gajdostik) > 12. 25th Texas State Open (Martial Arts Tournaments) > 13. Re: Testing Procedures (steven riggs) > 14. Re: Re: Light of day (steven riggs) > 15. Re: Testing procedures at Martial Arts Schools (Robert Burns) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >From: "michael tomlinson" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Testing Procedures >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 05:26:06 +0000 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I would say you are the norm...over all the years in MA's I have to say >that >this is how it is done in most arts....I would not question yourself any >further...you are preparing and doing the things exactly how it should be >done and has been done....you might tell the parents that pressure and >anxiety will be a part of any test just as it would in a tournament or in a >real self defense situation...learning to deal with the pressure and >anxiety >and still be able to function is a part of becoming a competant martial >artist and with time and more testing this student will conquer this hurdle >also.....let's face it..fighting and self defense is pressure...some of the >purest kind...can't run from it...you just have to bow up on it and deal >with it... > Michael >Tomlinson > > > > > > ... We do ours with an invite to test (ltr stating they are ready) >for > > > youth this needs to be signed by teacher and parents, (adults signed >by > > > themselves); testing a week or two after the invite (date is on it and > >is a > > > Saturday), then the following Monday we give belts and certificates, >and > > > evaluation form (points and comments from judging panel). We use the > > > week-end to review the taping of the test for evaluation purposes. >Test > > > itself consists of forms, one steps, sparring, self defense, breaking, > >and > > > Q&A. From the schools I've been around, this didn't seem that out of > >the > > > ordinary. How does our school look to you all on testing. Our we > >strange > > > and out there? > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free >quotes - *Terms >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910 > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >From: sidtkd@aol.com >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:25:17 EDT >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Light of day >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >IMHO, > > > We do not go far enough to expose guys like Hackworth. In fact >the >degree to which there are abuses in the arts is due to the fact that we >don't fully expose it. > > >Sid > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free email to >everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >From: "Frank Clay" >To: >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:25:03 -0400 >Subject: [The_Dojang] re: Hackworth >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Ray, > >I disagree. We did not nail him to the wall. He is still a free man. If it >were me, besides the get rich quick crap, and I heard about all of the >alleged things that he had done that were illegal, and he was not >incarcerated, I'd be wondering about it. And that is exactly what he does. >He brings enough people over to do seminars and the like. He effectively >uses your comments, and those of others, to indicate these people are just >jealous and when have they brought people like this? After one incident >when >Master Yoon Dae Un was at the school, looking at his certificates, >Hackworth >made the comment to me that if there was a problem with his certs that >didn't I think they would say something? > >I know this is going to sound harsh but the people that he will get sucked >into him won't be the ones reading this digest. They won't be listening to >us. I know this for a fact. In fact, after Master Whalen prodded me to call >KHF myself, and I did (speaking with Master Bae), I ended up with nasty >calls and grams claiming that I didn't know what I was talking about >because >I was only being given part of the story and yadda yadda. So in short, he >was effectively framing that Bae and the KHF were out to get him. I know he >is a liability and I know that he may yet still rip off a lot of people. >But >we cannot do a dag gone thing about it until we can really nail him to the >wall, in other words take his freedom. If you can't prove his actions to >that point, then you are empowering him. You give him one more thing to say >to sucker people in. when you look at it from a 2D point of view, you are >right. People should not be so silly as to disregard what we have come up >with but consider this: > > 1. None of us will speak to these people before they become victims. > 2. He is free and to date has been charged with nothing - making him >legally innocent. > 3. The people who do become his victims will likely slip through the >crack >because no one will help them (I know this one for a fact - I tried to >pursue it legally and received no interest from the authorities >whatsoever). >They will be out money and he will be able to continue to do harm. > >I want this guy to go away, arguably more than many of you. I'm not sure >that continually raising awareness to him and ridiculing him is the >appropriate method. To date it has not been effective. IF this line of >action is going to persist then it needs to be effective. Otherwise, this >just looks like sour grapes or politics, which is exactly how he frames it. > >~f. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >From: "Dana Vaillancourt" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 14:04:40 +0000 >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Testing Procedures >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I have a small adult club and do not do testings as big events. If >spouses, >parents or close friends want to come and watch they are welcome. However, >if they don't come and watch all the time, the test is just another class >and the students doesn't need additional distractions. I usually test >groups of similar ranked people so they are not really private testings. >I've always felt that martial arts is a personal journey and have tried to >stay away from any hoopla at testings so that rank does not appear to be >the >primary goal. > >Now, when I taught children, I would encourage parents to watch classes to >see what was being taught and how their children were being treated. >Parents of children also often came to tests as expected. I like parental >support and positive feedback, but not the "rah rah" cheerleading type >thing >in the dojang. > >Interesting enough, on the other side of the spectrum, I recently saw a dan >testing advertised where ALL guests had to pay admission!! Now that >doesn't >seem right, as I'm sure those folks are paying for their tests. > >Dana > >_________________________________________________________________ >Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. >http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07 > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >From: "Artcrane" >To: >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:56:03 -0400 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing Procedures >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >`Our school does it similar to that. A letter of intent to promote, with >an >open test with parents/ friends able to watch. Sometimes this will bring >in >new students. The only difference is our Black Belt tests are a "Locked >Door" >test, with parents and others only able to watch the test through windows. >This allows no interference or distraction from the audience. This was not >the >case in the first '"Mc DoJang". I find this is a better surrounding for >the >students that are testing. I compliment my instructor on that . > >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] re: Hackworth >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:03:51 -0700 (PDT) >From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > I disagree. We did not nail him to the wall. He is still a free man. If >it > > were me, besides the get rich quick crap, and I heard about all of the > > alleged things that he had done that were illegal, and he was not > > incarcerated, I'd be wondering about it. > >Well, let us examine... > >He is no longer claiming that his KMAIA is -the- org in Korea that all >martial arts masters -must- belong to. He is no longer claiming to be >a KHF 9th Dan. In fact, he was kicked out of the KHF entirely. TKD Times >stopped his regular columns. His wife learned of his many unethical >actions >and divorced him, also taking his dojang. The KTA is wise to him, >informing >those that contact them to stay away from him. The Kukkiwon is also wise >to him. Many of those previously associated with him now stay as far >away from him as possible. > >Should I go on? > >Is it over yet? No. Can we keep quiet? No. > >Luckily some people that are on the road to being fooled do find the facts, >they do learn the truth and they do contact us for input and feedback on >a fairly regular basis. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >From: >To: >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:40:30 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing Procedures >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > ... We do ours with an invite to test (ltr stating they are ready) for > > youth this needs to be signed by teacher and parents, (adults signed by > > themselves); testing a week or two after the invite (date is on it and >is a > > Saturday), then the following Monday we give belts and certificates, and > > evaluation form (points and comments from judging panel). We use the > > week-end to review the taping of the test for evaluation purposes. Test > > itself consists of forms, one steps, sparring, self defense, breaking, >and > > Q&A. From the schools I've been around, this didn't seem that out of >the > > ordinary. How does our school look to you all on testing. Our we >strange > > and out there? > >At my instructor school the test is open to whomever who would like to come >and watch, no secrets. >Everyone must warm up on their own before testing starts. Once we start >everyone takes there turn doing all their forms whether >it's 1 or 24 of them. Next is blocks, kicks, one steps, self-defense, club >& >knife techniques & defense, belt techniques, breaking. Finish with >sparring. >I don't think I left anything out, except all the black & blue marks on my >body from the last test, damn I love this art. >Depending what belt you are testing for will depend on what material you >will >do. Black belt testing you can always expect the unexpected, he love to >see >if you can adjust to the situation at hand. All but, the forms are in >groups. >Color belt test are not at the same time as black belt test. >Once the test is over you really fill you earn it. The only thing you >bought >was pain, sweat, and a pat on the back for completing what you started out >to >do. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 8 >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:56:46 -0700 (PDT) >From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) >Subject: [The_Dojang] AMERICAN$ again welcome >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >FWIW... >Forwarding... > > > In case any list members might be interested but had not yet heard, >North Korea is apparently again welcoming foreign visitors, including even >U.S. citizens, for its upcoming Arirang Mass Performance events being held >in honor of the late but still incumbent President Kim's mid-April >birthday. Details can be found at the Asia Pacific Travel Ltd. website: >http://www.northkorea1on1.com/Itinerary.cfm. > > Subscriptions are apparently slow in coming, as an American friend of >mine is hoping seven more folks will sign up for the "April 25 departure >7-day North Korea itinerary" to meet the ten-member minimum for the tour. >Read the fine print, however; the "7-day NK itinerary" includes only three >nights in Pyongyang -- two full days sandwiched between two days devoted >mostly or entirely to travel; the "April 25 departure" doesn't actually >depart Beijing for Pyongyang until April 28. The $2,410 cost is based on >double occupancy and at least 15 participants; $200 surcharge would apply >for 10-14 folks. > >Ken Kaliher >Seoul >E-mail: kenkaliher@hotmail.com > >--__--__-- > >Message: 9 >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:51:16 -0500 >From: "Dennis McHenry" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing Procedures >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > BJ - I've always done my testings open and invite family and friends to >take pictures, etc. It does put them under pressure (thus "test"). I was >a >member of one school long ago that did the testing in private, but only >one. I have seen students who know their stuff well go blank during tests, >even happened receintly during a Dan testing. It happens. > >Personally, I also like the idea of using it as more of a demo so parents, >SOs or friends can see their progress and help celebrate and share in their >accomplishments. > >Mac > >--__--__-- > >Message: 10 >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 10:24:05 -0700 (PDT) >From: Luther Veuleman >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Private Tests >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I saw something interesting once. It wasnt' testing, it was regular class. > I went to a school in East Texas (not mentioning names) and told the guy >who I was, and that I was interested in watching classes. He quickly told >me that 'nobody watches my classes'. I figured he just meant outsiders, so >I asked if I could participate as a white belt then, and he said that was >okay, for the price of an individual class. I had the $10 on me, so I said >sure, and probably like most of you, I keep a dobak in my vehicle, and a >white belt in my bag, so I got ready for class. I talked with some of the >parents before hand, and they confirmed they'd never seen his class. Some >had never even seen inside the area where the students worked out. I >really thought this was odd. We started class, and as the last person went >into the room, he closed the door. Seriously. Like, boom. Nobody seemed >phased by it, it was the norm. At first I thought he was just acting weird >because an > outsider (me) was there, and maybe he was nervous about teaching in front >of someone. But after a while, I realized, this guys was just this anal. >This wasn't like a top-secret ninja class or anything, so it just seemed >really odd. He was kind of a quirky guy anyway, so I guess to each his >own. > > Charlie Veuleman > www.TSDofLA.com > >--__--__-- > >Message: 11 >From: "Mark Gajdostik" >To: >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:48:38 -0700 >Subject: [The_Dojang] testing procedures >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Mr.Pritchett, > >Good testing format--tried and true. Most of the schools I came up in did >it in a very similar way to you. Anything that is well thought out and >organized should add to your retention and smooth operation of training. >I'm always baffled by the schools that try to hide what they are doing. > > >I do things a bit different. Through a combination of observation and >front-desk software stats, I find who is ready by their attendance level, >mini-tests for belt stripes (Jr.program only), and my personal notes on >their performance/abilities. > >For the kids, seeing a belt full of stripes tells me they are close, so I >can also check (or it notifies me) the computer to see if they have >sufficient time-in-grade and have attended the correct classes. > >When a student is ready, I put their name on a posted list for graduation. >I use my STORM team to help verify the student has retained each stripe >requirement, then I have the student perform during class in front of the >class the requirements of each stripe. This is done at least 2 weeks >before >the graduation date. > >Once they go through the demonstration of skills (aka: testing), then I >have their status changed in the software to 'eligible'. The computer >makes >sure we have enough belts in inventory to cover the graduation, if not it >lets me know to order. > >Graduation day is an event. The students show up, get their belt in a >short >ceremony, and then demonstrate for their family, friends, and fellow >students exactly why they deserve the new rank by showing off their skills. >Every student in my school is welcome to attend, I make sure everyone >invites family/friends (aka: prospects). My demo team does a small bit, >and everyone gets a short energetic workout before we adjourn to potluck or >a pizza joint! > >For me, I've had more success in retention and attraction of students with >the graduation day format rather than the testing day format. It takes >some >of the nerves out of the process. > >One more thing...I'm gonna shock a few of you...I don't charge for testing. >The belt is earned, not paid for. > > >Mark Gajdostik >TNT Martial Arts >503-640-8400 >www.TNTma.com > >--__--__-- > >Message: 12 >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:22:10 -0700 >From: "Martial Arts Tournaments" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] 25th Texas State Open >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >25th Annual Texas State Open TKD Chip > >Loos Field House Gym >3815 Spring Valley Rd >Dallas, TX > >Saturday, April 21 > >1-972-671-7888 > >--__--__-- > >Message: 13 >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:40:04 -0700 (PDT) >From: steven riggs >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Testing Procedures >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I to have always done my testings during special test days which takes >the place of a regular Saturday morning class. This enables most people to >come rather than have that occasional person who has to work on a evening >night. Yes it puts the person under some pressure but so does actual >combat when you are attacked in the street. Almost all the students do >well. I did have one FBI agent that always did rotten compared to the rest >of the class. He explained that he got nervous ahead of time but in the >street when taking down a drug house or hostage situation where he had the >role of a sniper he was as cool as a cucumber. I teased him often that if >his life was threatened he could draw his service weapon and put three >rounds into a space the size of a playing card at 30' but was terrified if >asked to do a kata for green belt. We all have our gifts. I always >encourage all the students, not just the ones testing, to come and cheer >their classmates on. I believe this > lends itself to type of team spirit within the dojang. Over the years I >feel this has lent itself to a number of friendships that carried over to >the outside world. > Steven > >Dennis McHenry wrote: > BJ - I've always done my testings open and invite family and friends to >take pictures, etc. It does put them under pressure (thus "test"). I was a >member of one school long ago that did the testing in private, but only >one. I have seen students who know their stuff well go blank during tests, >even happened receintly during a Dan testing. It happens. > >Personally, I also like the idea of using it as more of a demo so parents, >SOs or friends can see their progress and help celebrate and share in their >accomplishments. > >Mac >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >Sensei Steven Riggs > Master Instructor > American Defensive Arts > Master of Philosophy in Martial Science > stevencriggs@yahoo.com > www.americandefensivearts.org > 828-322-6904 > > >--------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 14 >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:47:49 -0700 (PDT) >From: steven riggs >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Light of day >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I would agree with many of you that feel he needs to be exposed as >vigorously as possible. It has been several years since I first heard of >him and I honestly don't recall the specific context. I wrote to him >expressing my belief that if he was in fact guilty of the actions he was >accused of that he brought disgrace upon the entire martial arts community. >He wrote back telling me I was cowardly in not identifying myself. I >responded giving him my full name, street address, city & state and home >phone number in case he wanted to stop by for a visit. He did not. > >sidtkd@aol.com wrote: IMHO, > > >We do not go far enough to expose guys like Hackworth. In fact the >degree to which there are abuses in the arts is due to the fact that we >don't fully expose it. > > >Sid > > > >************************************** AOL now offers free email to >everyone. >Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > >Sensei Steven Riggs > Master Instructor > American Defensive Arts > Master of Philosophy in Martial Science > stevencriggs@yahoo.com > www.americandefensivearts.org > 828-322-6904 > > >--------------------------------- >No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go >with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 15 >Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:54:11 -0700 (PDT) >From: Robert Burns >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Testing procedures at Martial Arts Schools >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > This is a response to: BJ Pritchett and his inquiry concerning >testing procedures for color belts. > >Mr. Pritchett, > >Oriental Martial Arts Colleges in Ohio, Indiana, Virginia, Canada and all >over-seas schools follow a simple yet effective procedure: > Beginning with the White or "no-belt" depending upon the school, the >student is taught his/her new form(s) and self-defense techniques by one or >more senior belts or Black Belts. Ever class the student attends is >another opportunity to further the student's knowledge and skills >concerning their new forms and self-defense techniques, plus the related >"breaking technique." Once the student feels comfortable with the >newly-learned material, including at least 5 new Korean words or terms, >they are ecouraged to seek out a Black Belt to observe them, and give them >a simple verbal quiz on the words or terms. If the Black Belt is satisfied >that the student has a solid grounding in the forms and/or breaking >technique and/or words/terms, the Black Belt "certifies" the student to the >"Master or Grand Master" of the School to receive a "stripe" on his/her >belt in a specific color, with information on the back side of the stripe >of the form, "one-steps" or "Korean Terms" and the > date of the "stripe certification." Following that, the student is >segregated with "like-color" belts for up to 15 minutes per class to >practice and perfect the forms, techniques, one-steps and terms, until the >instructor is satisfied that the student is "confident" enough to perform >in a public test. The Master or Grand Master then sets a date and time for >the color belt tests, which are open to the parents and friends (friends >are encouraged to attend, as this usually results in additional beginning >students signing up for classes). The tests are usually on a Week-day >evening (during school days summers), with a "make-up" test date and time >for those students who cannot make the test for any-number of reasons, or >for those students who "fail" the test. During the tests, the Master and >Grand Master has test sheets and records scores for each phase of the test, >and goes over the results with the students, if necessary. The following >Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday early > evening is reserved for the belt and certificate presentation, after the >regular classes, with all students present. Black Belt tests are reserved >for June and December. I hope you see that most good and reputable schools >open their tests to the public, with nothing hidden. This builds >confidence, respect, good will, an comraderie among the students, and makes >the school more cohesive and a lot more fun. "Pitch-ins" are usually >reserved for holiday celebrations and the Black Belt tests (which go on all >day, including senior color belts). > Bob Burns, 2nd Dan > OMAC, Indianapolis, IN > > >End of The_Dojang Digest > > > > >--------------------------------- >Finding fabulous fares is fun. >Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and >hotel bargains. > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >http://the-dojang.net > >Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com >Standard disclaimers apply. >Remember September 11. > > >End of The_Dojang Digest