>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #104 - 10 msgs >Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:58:34 -0700 > >Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to > the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net > >You can reach the person managing the list at > the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." > > ><<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> > >Serving the Internet since June 1994. >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. >2,200 members. > >See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine >for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com > >Pil Seung! > >Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: High belts hurting lower belts in sparring (Anna Weltman) > 2. Re: Testing Procedures (Lasich, Mark D.) > 3. High Belts Hurting Lower Belts in Sparring (E. Montgomery) > 4. Celeste (Gladewater SooBahkDo) > 5. German Open (The_Dojang) > 6. Re: Norman Henderson (Joseph Cheavens) > 7. Response to Anna (UNCLASSIFIED) (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) > 8. RE: KOOK SUL - High belts hurting lower belts in > sparring (Joseph Cheavens) > 9. RE: High belts hurting lower belts in sparring (Billy Scott) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >From: "Anna Weltman" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] High belts hurting lower belts in sparring >Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:56:26 +0000 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >thanks for the reply. I agree. however, what steps might i take to >change the current situation at my school? any suggestions? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Billy Scott" > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: > Subject: [The_Dojang] High belts hurting lower belts in sparring > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 23:14:32 -0400 > >At my school when we spar the high rank students spar at there rank > with > >each other. And when sparring with lower rank they challenge them > but > >not to hurt them. they all have got to have good control and learn > from > >each other high rank and low rank, learning is what we are there for > not > >to hurt one another. > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:55:37 -0400 >From: "Lasich, Mark D." >To: "Dojang" >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Testing Procedures >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Dana, > >Good topic. I, too, believe we agree on the major points. > >In the spirit, >Mark > > >Message: 7 > >From: "Dana Vaillancourt" > >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:40:41 +0000 > >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Testing Procedures > >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > >Actually Mark, I think we are on the same page as every test should >have a > >commensurate level of non-physical learning as well. I just think you >can > >make it a tougher test without the casual observer thinking little >Johnnie > >or their husband is being pushed too hard. At this point, we can agree >to > >disagree over the little things. > > > >Dana > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 06:13:09 -0700 (PDT) >From: "E. Montgomery" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] High Belts Hurting Lower Belts in Sparring >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >First of all upper belts must practice control while sparring in our dojang >-(believe me you don't want Mr. Amanat to come teach you control), but we >also have a saying "I'll go as hard as you go." If you are a beginner, you >may not realize that you are not using control with your own techniques. >When I am sparring an under belt I will tell them if they are going too >hard (I have pins and plates in my neck). If they don't listen, I'll then >tell them, okay, I'll go as hard as you go. That usually makes them >lighten up. If it is a testing situation (where the student is being >pressured to perform, Mr. Amanat will in fact authorize the level of >contact - multiple sparring - light contact, one-on-one sparring - medium >contact, if the lower belt is trying to hurt the upper belt - look out). > >When I first started sparring, I also was "bloodied and had the wind >knocked out of me." Bloodied because I flinched and turned my head away >from contact (hit with a hook kick in the face that otherwise would have >caught the side of my helmet) and winded because I did not know how to >breathe while sparring. My instructor told me 1) always keep your eyes on >your target; and 2) work your conditioning and control your breathing - and >he showed me how. > >Talk to your instructor. I would bet that he would rather have you talk to >him than lose a student. You can frame it in such a way that is not >offensive. Rather than telling him, "you are not controling your upper >belts!" try "can you suggest how I can improve my sparring/add control to >my techniques/ learn to control my opponents?" > >I hope this helps. > >From: "Anna Weltman" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] KOOK SUL - High belts hurting lower belts in > sparring >Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 10:43:50 +0000 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >My question is this: > >When practising sparring, how to prevent the higher belts from whopping >the 'crap' out of the lower belts? Aren't they suposed to exercise some >form of restraint when spar practising with lower belts? > >I've been bloodied and had the wind knocked out too many times now, but >usually the same 4 red belts (there are 5 red belts in my class - 1 blue, >2 yellow and i'm a white) even though I've asked them to please be more >lenient on me. The instructor does not incorporate much teaching about >restraint, from what I've seen so far. > >What can I do? Can I ask the teacher to be stricter or is making >teaching suggestions to the teacher a no-no? > >Thanks very much, > >Anna in Israel > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels >in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. >http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 09:12:38 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Celeste >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Thats Cool > >I do not know Mr. Harrington, but I remember when Mr. Azar signed up as a >White Belt in White Oak, Texas. I just talked to him yesterday about >supporting my up coming Gracie Jujitsu Seminar. > >There is a Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan school in Marshall run by Master >Instructor Gene Riggs. My instructor Master Kris Poole opened that school >in 1972 right there on Hwy 80. > >I do so mixed martial arts as well as run a full time Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk >Kwan school which is now in White Oak. Check out my web site >www.mdkregionsix.com There is a group in Marshall that call themselves the >5-1-5 I see them at the Battle Cage 360 cage fights but don't know much >about them. Also there is a Kung-Fu instructor named Anthony McDannels that >trained with me for a long time in the Moo Duk Kwan before moving to the >Kung Fu school. > >Do you know Mr. Albert Cole. He is a 5th Dan student of Mr. Azar that >teaches in Bossier City, LA He is the promoter for the Battle Cage Fights. > >I am sure we will meet, so take care. By the way how long have you been >training > >JC > >_________________________________________________________________ >Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get >intro-rate 4.625%* >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743 > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:16:02 -0700 >From: The_Dojang >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] German Open >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Danielle Holmquist Reaches Quarterfinals of German Open; U.S. Juniors >Win Five Medals >April 2, 2007 > >Women's featherweight Danielle Holmquist (Coral Springs, Fla.) reached >the quarterfinals of the German Open on Sunday in Bonn. Holmquist >defeated Australia's Dounia Larhoulle and Croatia's Lana Pustak to >reach the quarterfinal round. There she lost to eventual bronze >medalist Estefania Hernandez of Spain. > >In other senior action on Sunday, men's flyweight James Howe (Miami, >Fla.) defeated Grzegorz Babynko of Poland and Seitenov Arnat of >Kazakhstan defore losing to Mario Leal of Venezuela. In the women's >middleweight division, Dalia Aviva (Davie, Fla.) lost her opening >match in sudden death to Katrina Iacobucci of Australia, after the two >were tied 8-8 in regulation. > >The U.S. finished tied for fifth place with Mexico in the team >standings. Germany placed first, followed by Croatia, Turkey and Great >Britain. > >In the junior competition, USAT members won five medals. Gold medals >were won by female light heavyweight Nazara Muwakkil (Clearwater, >Fla.), female finweight Anees Hasnain (McKinney, Texas) and male >lightweight Thomas Ly (Rockville, Md.). Kodylee Karm (Largo, Fla.) won >a silver medal in the male middleweight class and Sean Aston >(Clarksburg, Md.) took home a bronze medal in the male featherweight >division. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >From: "Joseph Cheavens" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Norman Henderson >Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:20:45 -0500 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Ray, > >What does Dr. Henderson teach at Oberlin and when did he start? I >graduated from Oberlin in '89 and would be happy to know that there is >someone there teaching TKD now. > >Joe Cheavens > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free >quotes - *Terms > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:42:43 -0500 >From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Response to Anna (UNCLASSIFIED) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >Caveats: NONE > >Anna, > >I do believe in training with graduated contact. And most all my students >at >green belt, (about a year of training) and above have experienced having >the >wind knocked out or other minor injuries. But never as beginners. > >One thing that should never be tolerated in any martial arts class are >bullies >who are allowed to beat up on other students. Doesn't matter whether they >are >higher rank or just bigger. It is the instructor's job to make sure this >doesn't happen. Happens sometimes with teenage males, and I have seen it a >few times with older males, and much less with females. The instructor >should >stop the bout and warn the problem student/s. With teenage boys, sometimes >they tend to be very aggressive with females. If the problem happens more >than once, that is if the aggressive students continue to hit to hard on >lower >ranks, females, smaller people, I have successfully dealt with it by >letting >them spar my wife or some of my other dan or higher ranked female students. >Someone who can outmatch them in skill and can hit them as hard or harder >than >they can hit, and do it at will. It usually only takes once to bring egos >into control. > >I would advise talking to the instructor. If he does not take decisive >action >to control the situation, then I would look for another school. My >experience >has been that being beat on by higher ranked students significantly hinders >a >student's development of sparring skills. Sparring is about the chance to >practice your techniques. You can't do that in a self-defense situation. >And >I seriously doubt that asking the problem students to lighten up would make >any difference. > >Danny Dunn > ><<<<<<<<< >When practising sparring, how to prevent the higher belts from whopping >the 'crap' out of the lower belts? Aren't they suposed to exercise some >form of restraint when spar practising with lower belts? > >I've been bloodied and had the wind knocked out too many times now, but >usually the same 4 red belts (there are 5 red belts in my class - 1 blue, >2 yellow and i'm a white) even though I've asked them to please be more >lenient on me. The instructor does not incorporate much teaching about >restraint, from what I've seen so far. > >What can I do? Can I ask the teacher to be stricter or is making >teaching suggestions to the teacher a no-no? > >Thanks very much, > >Anna in Israel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED >Caveats: NONE > >--__--__-- > >Message: 8 >From: "Joseph Cheavens" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Cc: seano6196@verizon.net, odedcarmit@hotmail.com, vardyy@bezeqint.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] KOOK SUL - High belts hurting lower belts in > sparring >Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:46:16 -0500 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Upper ranks should not be "whooping the crap" out of lower rank students. >In contact sparring, the level of contact should be mutual and set by the >lower rank. If an upper rank student is abusing lower rank students, the >instructor should put a stop to it right away - ideally during the >sparring session so that the whole dojang can be reminded of what type of >behaviour is expected and that just as lower ranks are expected to show >respect for senior ranks, sernior ranks must earn that respect by taking >care of and nurturing lower ranks. For a senior student to abuse a lower >rank undermines this respect. > >Similarly, if a lower rank is sparring out of control, it should be the >instructor's job to admonish the student to spar more in control - not >the job of the upper ranking student to discipline the lower rank by >"whooping the crap" out of him/her. > >In either case, you may want to consider looking for another dojang. My >first instructor warned me that abusive behavior by senior students >against lower ranking students is a warning sign of a bad dojang. I've >taken the liberty of copying two Jidokwan TDKists in Israel (Oded and >Yaron) who come from the same lineage as me. If you are not in their >area, perhaps they can recommend a good dojang for you. > >Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Anna Weltman" > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] KOOK SUL - High belts hurting lower belts in > sparring > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 10:43:50 +0000 > My question is this: > > When practising sparring, how to prevent the higher belts from > whopping > the 'crap' out of the lower belts? Aren't they suposed to exercise > some > form of restraint when spar practising with lower belts? > > I've been bloodied and had the wind knocked out too many times now, > but > usually the same 4 red belts (there are 5 red belts in my class - 1 > blue, > 2 yellow and i'm a white) even though I've asked them to please be > more > lenient on me. The instructor does not incorporate much teaching > about > restraint, from what I've seen so far. > > What can I do? Can I ask the teacher to be stricter or is making > teaching suggestions to the teacher a no-no? > > Thanks very much, > > Anna in Israel > > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: > >http://the-dojang.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 9 >From: "Billy Scott" >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] High belts hurting lower belts in sparring >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 17:49:46 -0400 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Well I am head instructor and school owner and I do not do it for a >living so what I say goes are they go. If I were a student I would go to >the Instructor before class and speak with him and let him know how you >feel and if that does not fix the problem, then I would find a different >school that teaches martial arts not a school of No Control. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Anna Weltman [mailto:annaweltman@hotmail.com] >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 4:56 AM >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] High belts hurting lower belts in sparring > >thanks for the reply. I agree. however, what steps might i take to >change the current situation at my school? any suggestions? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Billy Scott" > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: > Subject: [The_Dojang] High belts hurting lower belts in sparring > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 23:14:32 -0400 > >At my school when we spar the high rank students spar at there rank > with > >each other. And when sparring with lower rank they challenge them > but > >not to hurt them. they all have got to have good control and learn > from > >each other high rank and low rank, learning is what we are there for > not > >to hurt one another. > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > >Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang > >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com >Standard disclaimers apply. >Remember September 11. > > >End of The_Dojang Digest