Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:02:54 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #111 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Unification issues (sidtkd@aol.com) 2. Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 3. Re: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (Ray) 4. Taekwondo Anthem, so exciting... :) (The_Dojang) 5. Re: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (Ray) 6. Re: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 8. Re: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (Ray) 9. Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (Gordon Okerstrom) 10. RE: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 11. ABC's "20/20" seeking "Armed Citizen" stories (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 07:14:40 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Unification issues Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With North Korea doing its sabre rattling, with the head of the UN a Korean and our American interests in keeping North Korea at bay, I don't think that the WTF will simply absorb ITF. If you recall, Nixon sent a ping-pong team to China before relations resumed. Sport is often the precursor to a balanced peace. My hunch is that ITF will play a much larger role in the new taekwondo than most of us think. Although I am very unsure about what taekwondo will look like in the near future I think its fair to say that ITF will have a major imprint. I can say with certainty, that ITF will profit financially from a merger. Sid ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:43:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray As a Moo Duk Kwan Instructor and a student of Rorion Gracie's oldest son Rener Gracie. I can tell you from experiance that What you see on the you tube clip is accurrate in every since. I know how to kick and puch to the head. Rener can take me down at will. Once on the ground, if you do not know GJJ you will get submitted. I have seen some of the challange matches in recent times. They alway turn out the same. I watched a TKD Blackbelt guy get submitted 3 times after challanging Rener in California, I watched a Wrestler get submitted that out weighed Rener by 50lbs when he challanged him during the G.R.A.P.L.E. course last December. I personally have rolled with him many times, Its the real deal. The problem is some still think they can armchair quarterback, Roll with one of the Gracies then say you could have puched or kicked JC _________________________________________________________________ MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John.  Enter to win today. http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 08:00:33 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The problem is some still think they can armchair quarterback, Roll with one > of the Gracies then say you could have puched or kicked Well, it has been maybe a dozen years ago now, but I did, and I did, and it worked. As we see these days in MMA, only having BJJ/GJJ on your side doesn't get you that far. By far the best Gracie, Rickson, using the style he used 10 or 15 years ago would not get him very far these days. It did back in the era of the first few UFC matches, but these days you see the strikers with a takedown defense doing very well, thank you. Angle, circle, head punch, lower leg destruction, thai clinch, knee... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 08:14:08 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Anthem, so exciting... :) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF Selects Taekwondo Anthem 9 Apr 2007 The World Taekwondo Federation has selected a taekwondo anthem, with its final announcement pending the approval of the WTF Executive Council in Beijing, China, in May. The WTF's Screening Committee conducted an evaluation of entries for the taekwondo anthem and taekwondo song lyrics contest at the WTF headquarters in Seoul on April 5, 2007. For the first time ever in its 34 years of history, the WTF conducted a three-month contest for taekwondo anthem and taekwondo song lyrics between Nov. 1, 2006, and Jan. 31, 2007. In the field of taekwondo anthem, the contest drew a total of six entries from four countries – Korea, France, Azerbaijan and Croatia, while eight lyrics from five countries – Korea, Vietnam, Azerbaijan, the United Kingdom and Croatia – were submitted in the taekwondo song lyric category. As the result of the evaluation by the seven-member Screening Committee, the entry by Korea's Lee Woo-chang, a post modern music composer, was selected as the best composition for the taekwondo anthem, pending the approval of the WTF Executive Council in Beijing in May. The Screening Committee, composed of four taekwondo dignitaries and three music experts, decided not to select a winning taekwondo song lyric. Accordingly, the WTF plans to post Lee's approved composition on the official WTF Web site before inviting the public to compose a fitting set of English lyrics for Lee's composition to be used as the WTF's official taekwondo song. The criteria of the evaluation were artistic level, popularity, relevance to taekwondo, creativity and applicability. To ensure fairness in evaluation, the WTF conducted a lot drawing for the order of the evaluation of the entries and filmed the whole process of evaluation. --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 08:27:28 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Angle, circle, head punch, lower leg destruction, thai clinch, knee... P.S. I've also obviously simplified this. But if you simply back up, as if you're on railroad tracks (as the TKD/HKG guy did), you eventually run out of room and get taken down, esp by a great (or even good) ground fighter. Yes, we need to learn ground fighting and/or wrestling as this is where one also learns takedown defense. For me in years gone by it was a lot of wrestling and a little GJJ. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:46:53 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net here is what I wrote on budoseek about this same video...it applies here too IMHO.... I actually got that video about 1989 or so...it is an OLD video...but it proves the point IMO that a fish is a fish....from my old wrestling days when someone got taken down and they flopped their legs around and up like this guy does when he is mounted we would laugh and call them a "fish"...the saying comes from when you go fishing and catch one and throw it up on the bank...and it starts flopping around...uhhhh....he looks like a fish out of water...etc....I've been doing HKD for quite a few days now...and before that I wrestled and grappled back in the 60's and 70's before "EVERYONE" became an expert after watching it on tv in the last 5 or 6 years....it cracks me up hearing people all the time that I know haven't ever even stepped on a padded mat talking about "the mount", or the "guard", etc....the funny thing is that this stuff was all around a LONG time ago...way before the blue uniforms with all the sponsorships on them and the cool MMA haircuts...and all the guys who now know that what they do is better than anyone else....etc.....it is what is is folks...if you focus your training on only one area of confrontation then guess what...you have a hole in your training...this guy doesn't practice anything remotely like anything that we do in our HKD classes and he obviously doesn't know anything about takedowns, sprawls, positions, etc...and he got his cute hat handed to him....BUT...I will give him this...he tried...and because of that he probably became well aware of the huge hole in his training...the one we can all see from our armchair QB positons...if you train IMO you must cover as many bases as possible...if you don't you are fooling yourself...Erik is right the techniques are all in HKD you just have to open your eyes and shut down your ego and start being honest with yourself...tomorrow I'm gonna go and teach knife and gun techniques to some students from another art...no grappling tomorrow...just worrying and learning about how to deal with a little dude that doesn't grapple or know BJJ or cares about anything but sticking a gun or knife in your face to take what he wants....you see that IMHO has more to do with self defense than grappling or kicking or making arguements about which art is better...BUT...I still like to grapple too.... ...it's all good IMHO... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 19:01:11 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net and I wrote this on budoseek about the old video..... Jeff I totally agree....Rorian works this joker like an old washrag....by watching this guy move it is obvious that he has ONLY studied one facet of training...he doesn't have a clue about anything to do with in close fighting...like Jame's O'Neill said...he looks like a point fighter...my one cudo to him is that at least he went in there...whether out of stupidity or what, but he did go...I respect him for that...but his HKD training looks more like point fighting and nothing like the HKD I was taught by Master Whalen, Doju Nim Ji Han Jae, GM Y.J. Chung, and a few others....one old Master told me one time after I asked him the difference between HKD and JJ...that basically HKD is Korean JJ....plain and simple...it is not TKD with Aikido added, it is more like JJ with more kicking...at least the kind we practice... personally I have nothing but love and respect for the Gracie family...they are great Martial Artists in my book and if anyone scratched the surface of MMA in the United States they will find that the Gracies are responsible for it being created here....when Matt Hughes defeated the last Gracie I heard a bunch of people say...I'm glad Gracie finally lost, blah blah blah......I tried to point out that most of the fights that the Gracies are losing now are with the philosophy and techniques that they brought to the forefront...so in essence...they can't really lose because they started it here.....pretty ironic huh.......it's kind of like George Washington getting beat up with a cherry tree.... and I love the MMA's stuff going on right now...I think it is good for everyone to help open their eyes to their own training..if you look at it without any hidden agenda it is nothing but a huge labratory for you to watch....the one thing that bothers me about the MMA's is that there are a lot of young guys with very disrespectful attitudes out there..and not just on TV but in society as a whole...it has nothing to do with their ability but it seems some of the original tenets taught in more of the traditional styles are getting ignored and we see a lot of bravado, machismo, hot dogging, bad manners and just downright rudeness and disrespect to other people....BUT...if you watch the Gracies and listen to them they don't have that mindset or demeanor....they are a good model for future young MMArtists to follow IMHO....they are matter of fact...don't kiss anyone's butt...but are also very respectful and down to earth... with all that being typed...and probably not very well I might add...the one thing that the "new" grappling world misses is the idea that when you have to defend yourself out in public during a robbery attempt, car jacking, rape or worse there will more then likely be weapons involved...ie...knives, guns, or blunt weapons, etc. and lately in the Orlando area, gangs or packs of thugs working together....these are not to be grappled with or taken lightly...so while I also love grappling I think if you are training for true self defense you can't focus totally on that aspect or you will still have a huge hole in your training....bottom line is that in self defense nowdays I'm not much concerned with an olympic caliber wrestler or a MMA championship practitioner because I'm not going to spring break and hanging out drinking beer and fighting over some chick...I'm going to the ATM once a week,,,(ok more than once a week, ammo and ham and turkey is exspensive!), I'm going on vacation with my wife and teenage daughter, I'm going to the store after dark, and I'm a high school teacher....my threats are more to do with regular looking people with irregular minds and motives...and they will be dangerous....so now I try to spread my training around like I do that thick peanut butter on a good slice of low carb bread.....oh crap I forgot...NOW PEANUT BUTTER MIGHT KILL YOU!!! Michael Tomlinson ps...the crime rate statistics for Orlando Florida from last year to this year same time have risen 123 percent!! Saw that on Dateline but most of us around here knew it already from watching the news....crazy stuff... _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:09:50 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ....it > cracks me up hearing people all the time that I know haven't ever even > stepped on a padded mat talking about "the mount", or the "guard", > etc....the funny thing is that this stuff was all around a LONG time > ago...way before the blue uniforms with all the sponsorships on them and the > cool MMA haircuts... 1969, fall quarter at The Ohio State University, the beginning of the Ohio State Judo Club (I think). The club was begun by a brown belt Judoka grad student from NYC. After spending weeks on falling and few basic throws we began working newaza (ground fighting). Probably fairly typical for anyone that has ever studied a little Judo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 15:43:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael, You are welcome to move to Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, the 20th safest city in the nation and safest city in Oklahoma. We're a nice mix of metropolitan suburbanites and gun totin' hunters. A friend of mine took his wife and kids to another friend's house and as he tossed colored Easter eggs into the air they shot them with their 12 gauge! Okay, the 8 year old used a 4-10. The pictures are a hoot! Gordon Okerstrom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Arrow,_Oklahoma --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:43:40 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gordon, Sounds like a great place....hard boiled eggs and shotguns....right down my alley...throw in some smoked pork shoulder and a HKD mat and I'll start loading the wagon!! Michael Tomlinson >From: "Gordon Okerstrom" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 15:43:40 -0500 > >Michael, > >You are welcome to move to Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, the 20th safest city in >the nation and safest city in Oklahoma. We're a nice mix of metropolitan >suburbanites and gun totin' hunters. A friend of mine took his wife and >kids to another friend's house and as he tossed colored Easter eggs into >the >air they shot them with their 12 gauge! Okay, the 8 year old used a 4-10. >The pictures are a hoot! > >Gordon Okerstrom > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Arrow,_Oklahoma >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117 --__--__-- Message: 11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:48:19 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] ABC's "20/20" seeking "Armed Citizen" stories Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... ABC's "20/20" Seeking "Armed Citizen" Stories Friday, April 06, 2007 Gun ban groups often claim that private citizens rarely, if ever, use guns in self-defense. ABC News' "20/20" is now putting that claim to the test, asking viewers to submit their own real-life "Armed Citizen" stories. ABC's website asks: Have you ever defended yourself from a crime in your home, in your business, or in public by using a gun? Perhaps you warded off a potential attacker by simply showing a gun? If you've personally used a gun in a legitimate act of self-protection against a criminal attacker, we encourage you to tell your story to ABC News. To tell your story, go to http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3015150 and complete the web form. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest