Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:59:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #118 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 2. Re: John Pelligrini (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. RE: New rules (Joseph Cheavens) 4. Re: Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 (Joseph Cheavens) 5. RE: P (Joseph Cheavens) 6. Re: Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 (William Scandrett) 7. RE: Re: John Pelligrini (michael tomlinson) 8. RE: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (michael tomlinson) 9. RE: Re: John Pelligrini (Joseph Cheavens) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:58:36 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Michael I like what you wrote. Imp sure that a lot of us can relate to the dangers that. Imp personally not a big fan of MMA however I am a fan of George St. Pierre. He comes from a traditional MA background which I think accounts for his apparent modesty. -----Original Message----- From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] Sent: 09 April 2007 20:01 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido and I wrote this on budoseek about the old video..... Jeff I totally agree....Rorian works this joker like an old washrag....by watching this guy move it is obvious that he has ONLY studied one facet of training...he doesn't have a clue about anything to do with in close fighting...like Jame's O'Neill said...he looks like a point fighter...my one cudo to him is that at least he went in there...whether out of stupidity or what, but he did go...I respect him for that...but his HKD training looks more like point fighting and nothing like the HKD I was taught by Master Whalen, Doju Nim Ji Han Jae, GM Y.J. Chung, and a few others....one old Master told me one time after I asked him the difference between HKD and JJ...that basically HKD is Korean JJ....plain and simple...it is not TKD with Aikido added, it is more like JJ with more kicking...at least the kind we practice... personally I have nothing but love and respect for the Gracie family...they are great Martial Artists in my book and if anyone scratched the surface of MMA in the United States they will find that the Gracies are responsible for it being created here....when Matt Hughes defeated the last Gracie I heard a bunch of people say...I'm glad Gracie finally lost, blah blah blah......I tried to point out that most of the fights that the Gracies are losing now are with the philosophy and techniques that they brought to the forefront...so in essence...they can't really lose because they started it here.....pretty ironic huh.......it's kind of like George Washington getting beat up with a cherry tree.... and I love the MMA's stuff going on right now...I think it is good for everyone to help open their eyes to their own training..if you look at it without any hidden agenda it is nothing but a huge labratory for you to watch....the one thing that bothers me about the MMA's is that there are a lot of young guys with very disrespectful attitudes out there..and not just on TV but in society as a whole...it has nothing to do with their ability but it seems some of the original tenets taught in more of the traditional styles are getting ignored and we see a lot of bravado, machismo, hot dogging, bad manners and just downright rudeness and disrespect to other people....BUT...if you watch the Gracies and listen to them they don't have that mindset or demeanor....they are a good model for future young MMArtists to follow IMHO....they are matter of fact...don't kiss anyone's butt...but are also very respectful and down to earth... with all that being typed...and probably not very well I might add...the one thing that the "new" grappling world misses is the idea that when you have to defend yourself out in public during a robbery attempt, car jacking, rape or worse there will more then likely be weapons involved...ie...knives, guns, or blunt weapons, etc. and lately in the Orlando area, gangs or packs of thugs working together....these are not to be grappled with or taken lightly...so while I also love grappling I think if you are training for true self defense you can't focus totally on that aspect or you will still have a huge hole in your training....bottom line is that in self defense nowdays I'm not much concerned with an olympic caliber wrestler or a MMA championship practitioner because I'm not going to spring break and hanging out drinking beer and fighting over some chick...I'm going to the ATM once a week,,,(ok more than once a week, ammo and ham and turkey is exspensive!), I'm going on vacation with my wife and teenage daughter, I'm going to the store after dark, and I'm a high school teacher....my threats are more to do with regular looking people with irregular minds and motives...and they will be dangerous....so now I try to spread my training around like I do that thick peanut butter on a good slice of low carb bread.....oh crap I forgot...NOW PEANUT BUTTER MIGHT KILL YOU!!! Michael Tomlinson ps...the crime rate statistics for Orlando Florida from last year to this year same time have risen 123 percent!! Saw that on Dateline but most of us around here knew it already from watching the news....crazy stuff... _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:24:18 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pelligrini Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Tomlinson says: Trained next to him at a HKD seminar in 1989 before he was even a black belt in Hapkido....good luck. Doug says: >With over 25 years of marital arts study & research, GM John Pellegrini is >recognized as one of the formost experts and a leading authority on >self-defense. Doug also said: He has 25 years study and research in the development of a recognized kwan, not in martial arts experience. Master Kish has 22 years experience in martial arts experience. Ray wrote: So lets see now... 20 years ago, he was a 0th Dan (aka Nada Dan) in Hapkido. So he claims that five years before that he began his journey to develop a Hapkido kwan?!? http://dsihq.com/ICHF/GMP.htm says: "Over 40 years of martial arts experience." My response: Michael says Pelligrini didn't have a black belt in hapkido in 1989. David Beck says he was awarded an honorary black belt in 1988 by Mike Wollmerhauser. http://www.beckmartialarts.com/chkdfaq.html So the best that could be said of him about hapkido is that he has almost 20 years in the art. I'm not sure where the other 20 years of experience come from. Was he doing tkd or karate in 1967? I saw Pelligrini around seven years ago and thought his technique was pretty similar to what I knew at that time; I don't know what he's like now. I do know that personally I didn't like his attitude. It had a lot of ego in it, and when ego gets on the mat, injuries seem to increase. The students of his that I have met have a similar chip on the shoulder, so I'm not fond of playing with them. There are lots of skill levels represented in hapkido, and lots of different technical emphases, so go train at what you need. But for me it is all about attitude. JR West's guys have good technique, and are fun to play with. Hal Whalen has a lot of great technique, and is a wonderful guy to talk to. Wally Jay is the same way. If I'm going to pay money to work out, it will probably be with those guys. Oh, one aside. One of Pelligrini's partners these days is Joe Lansdale. I do recommend you guys work with him if you get a chance. He's a pleasant guy for whom martial arts are a serious hobby, not how he makes a living. He knows his way around the mat and has a lot to offer. Read about him at: http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan/newsletter/volume4/iss1/vol4iss1prnt.ht m Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] New rules Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:56:02 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net They still need to allow punches to the head or it will remain boring and unrealistic. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The_Dojang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New rules Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:13:27 -0700 Dong-A Ilbo April 13 Taekwondo, disregarded by bored Korean fans, will get a boost. On April 12, the first nationwide federation match in World Taekwondo Headquarters showed Taekwondo's new rules. Instead of a 10x10 meter square, a round 100 square meter area was marked on the floor, on which players attack and defend. A newly adopted 15-second rule warns a passive player to do more. A face attack is 4 points, up 1 point from before, allowing players to win a come-from-behind victory with offensive play. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:10:53 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, The World Head of Family Sokeship Counsil calls him a grandmaster. [IMAGE] http://www.bushido.org/whfsc/ Since I've been doing TKD for 24 years, does that mean I can be a grandmaster next year if I pay my dues to the Council? Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT) > Grandmaster John Peligrini [xnip] > > With over 25 years of marital arts study & research, GM John Pellegrini is > recognized as one of the formost experts and a leading authority on > self-defense. !!!! He really only has 26 years in, and yet he dares to try to call himself a grandmaster? Sorry, but that is sad... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] P Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:59:44 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "He has 25 years study and research in the development of a recognized kwan, not in martial arts experience."(emphasis added) Recognized by whom? The World Head of House Sokeship Council? His own World Combat Hapkido Federation? Who did he study under and for how long? When did he attain rank and from what organizations? Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] P Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:27:37 -0700 (PDT) > He has 25 years study and research in the development of a recognized kwan, > not in martial arts experience. So lets see now... 20 years ago, he was a 0th Dan (aka Nada Dan) in Hapkido. So he claims that five years before that he began his journey to develop a Hapkido kwan?!? If you do attend one of his seminars you will see how little he really knows. That should be the eye opener... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "William Scandrett" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:23:55 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Having Trained next to and with Mr. Pelligrini at different seminars and gatherings over the years  I can say whole heartedly I am not impressed with him or his technique. He is nothing more than a great self promoter and businessman. I find it hard to have respect for people that buy their rank or those that sell the rank. Sincerely, William Scandrett Sam Dan, Hapkido Sun Moo Kwan -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "Joseph Cheavens" Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  Re: [The_Dojang] Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 Date:  Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:10:53 -0500 >Well, The World Head of Family Sokeship Counsil calls him a grandmaster. >[IMAGE] > >http://www.bushido.org/whfsc/ > >Since I've been doing TKD for 24 years, does that mean I can be a >grandmaster next year if I pay my dues to the Council? > >Joe Cheavens > >   -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >   From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) >   Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >   To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >   Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Combat Hapkido Seminar - June 2, 2007 >   Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT) >   > Grandmaster John Peligrini >   [xnip] >   > >   > With over 25 years of marital arts study & research, GM John >   Pellegrini is >   > recognized as one of the formost experts and a leading authority on >   > self-defense. > >   !!!! > >   He really only has 26 years in, and yet he dares to try to call >   himself a >   grandmaster? Sorry, but that is sad... > >   Ray Terry >   rterry@idiom.com >   _______________________________________________ >   The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >   The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >   Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >   Standard disclaimers apply >   Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft >Office Live! >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Can’t afford to quit your job? – Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in 1 year. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pelligrini Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:10:21 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I feel what Dakin is saying and I agree..work out with who you want, spend your money on what you want...BUT please don't get defensive and mad when guys on here tell you the truth who were there and not gossiping but informing people of the "actual history" it's a service to people to hear this information and not a bashing on anyone....I'm getting too old for all that!!! ..I don't think Pelligrini got his BB in 1988 but I could be mistaken...the only way I know about all of this is because I was personally there on the mat when it all happened...Orange City...Chester Holubecki's Dojo...it was where MY instructor taught HKD at that time...we worked out there 3 times a week religiously and a lot of times on Saturday too, every class was 2 and a half hours or more...once a year Mike Wollmershauser came down to do a three to five day AHA seminar...Chester was from Springfield Mass, Mike W. was from Springfield Mass, and my instructor Steve Mortel who was one of Hal Whalen's first black belts, had moved to my area of Florida from Boston....lot's of Mass. guys who knew each other....that's why we were at an Isshin Ryu Karate Dojo doing "real" HKD..plus Chester had some really good mats which were hard to find in the early 90's and late 80's...anywho Pelligrini owned a tkd school in Sunrise Florida and ONLY came up for the seminar..no one in our area knew him at all....I saw him recieve his 1st dan from Mike W..Pelligrini didn't do HKD then,..and knew nothing about HKD before that seminar...by 1992 I was testing for my 1st dan with Hal Whalen and we were in the WHF under Kwang Sik Myung...Pelligrini was NOW in the WHF so I was aware of his entire HKD history in the very early stages....ask yourself this??? Pelligrini recieved his 1st and 2nd dan in the AHA...and they were basically honorary...then he jumped to the WHF when Mike W. wouldn't promote him anymore, where did I hear this? From Mike W. personally...no worries..doesn't concern me and I have nothing but good things to say about Mike W., he treated me great and showed me some awesome HKD..plus he was good friends with Hal Whalen and Steve Mortel...by 1993 or so Pelligrini was now a 4th or 5th dan in HKD under Myung....did I agree with this??? No, was it my business, no....so whatever..BUT...he was in the AHA and the WHF and that is the ONLY place he trained in HKD before he started his own thing....ok...fast tracked with two honorary HKD black belts in the AHA and skipped to 4th and 5th in the WHF,,, ALL WITHIN ABOUT 6 YEARS!!! I'm not saying anything about anyone on here...it is just the facts.....just one question more and I'll stop..... Why doesn't Pelligrini state these facts on his website???? I read all the info on his link with all his accolades and accomplishments and history...why would he not put his training on there with the AHA and the WHF....it doesn't make sense to me that you would leave off the two organizations where you recieved your actual HKD training???? Why is that??? Just some facts and questions....again...I don't care who or where anyone trains with....it's all up to you..if you love training with him that is great and I am happy for you..but putting advertisements on here about a seminar with marketing stuff that some of us old timers no better will get these kind of facts stated everytime...it's not bashing...it's our duty as old time HKD people to let EVERYONE know...you make your own choices and decisions...but at least you know the truth... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pelligrini >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:24:18 -0400 > >Michael Tomlinson says: > >Trained next to him at a HKD seminar in 1989 before he was even a black >belt >in Hapkido....good luck. > >Doug says: > > >With over 25 years of marital arts study & research, GM John Pellegrini >is > >recognized as one of the formost experts and a leading authority on > >self-defense. > >Doug also said: > > He has 25 years study and research in the development of a recognized >kwan, >not in martial arts experience. Master Kish has 22 years experience in >martial arts experience. > >Ray wrote: > >So lets see now... 20 years ago, he was a 0th Dan (aka Nada Dan) in >Hapkido. >So he claims that five years before that he began his journey to develop >a Hapkido kwan?!? > >http://dsihq.com/ICHF/GMP.htm says: > >"Over 40 years of martial arts experience." > >My response: > >Michael says Pelligrini didn't have a black belt in hapkido in 1989. David >Beck says he was awarded an honorary black belt in 1988 by Mike >Wollmerhauser. >http://www.beckmartialarts.com/chkdfaq.html >So the best that could be said of him about hapkido is that he has almost >20 >years in the art. I'm not sure where the other 20 years of experience come >from. Was he doing tkd or karate in 1967? I saw Pelligrini around seven >years >ago and thought his technique was pretty similar to what I knew at that >time; >I don't know what he's like now. I do know that personally I didn't like >his >attitude. It had a lot of ego in it, and when ego gets on the mat, injuries >seem to increase. The students of his that I have met have a similar chip >on >the shoulder, so I'm not fond of playing with them. There are lots of skill >levels represented in hapkido, and lots of different technical emphases, so >go >train at what you need. But for me it is all about attitude. JR West's >guys >have good technique, and are fun to play with. Hal Whalen has a lot of >great >technique, and is a wonderful guy to talk to. Wally Jay is the same way. >If >I'm going to pay money to work out, it will probably be with those guys. > >Oh, one aside. One of Pelligrini's partners these days is Joe Lansdale. I >do >recommend you guys work with him if you get a chance. He's a pleasant guy >for >whom martial arts are a serious hobby, not how he makes a living. He knows >his way around the mat and has a lot to offer. Read about him at: >http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan/newsletter/volume4/iss1/vol4iss1prnt.ht >m > >Yours in the arts, > >Dakin >dakinburdick@yahoo.com > >[demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a >name of winmail.dat] >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:43:11 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Peter, Thank you for the kind words...I too like the way George St. Pierre carries himself...he is happy to be there and works hard for what he's got...you can't not respect that...and he can drop you with a foot, fist, choke, etc... Michael Tomlinson >From: >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:58:36 +0100 > >Hi Michael I like what you wrote. Imp sure that a lot of us can relate >to the dangers that. Imp personally not a big fan of MMA however I am a >fan of George St. Pierre. He comes from a traditional MA background >which I think accounts for his apparent modesty. > >-----Original Message----- >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >Sent: 09 April 2007 20:01 >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido > >and I wrote this on budoseek about the old video..... > > >Jeff I totally agree....Rorian works this joker like an old >washrag....by >watching this guy move it is obvious that he has ONLY studied one facet >of >training...he doesn't have a clue about anything to do with in close >fighting...like Jame's O'Neill said...he looks like a point fighter...my >one >cudo to him is that at least he went in there...whether out of stupidity >or >what, but he did go...I respect him for that...but his HKD training >looks >more like point fighting and nothing like the HKD I was taught by Master > >Whalen, Doju Nim Ji Han Jae, GM Y.J. Chung, and a few others....one old >Master told me one time after I asked him the difference between HKD and > >JJ...that basically HKD is Korean JJ....plain and simple...it is not TKD > >with Aikido added, it is more like JJ with more kicking...at least the >kind >we practice... > >personally I have nothing but love and respect for the Gracie >family...they >are great Martial Artists in my book and if anyone scratched the surface >of >MMA in the United States they will find that the Gracies are responsible >for >it being created here....when Matt Hughes defeated the last Gracie I >heard a >bunch of people say...I'm glad Gracie finally lost, blah blah >blah......I >tried to point out that most of the fights that the Gracies are losing >now >are with the philosophy and techniques that they brought to the >forefront...so in essence...they can't really lose because they started >it >here.....pretty ironic huh.......it's kind of like George Washington >getting >beat up with a cherry tree.... > >and I love the MMA's stuff going on right now...I think it is good for >everyone to help open their eyes to their own training..if you look at >it >without any hidden agenda it is nothing but a huge labratory for you to >watch....the one thing that bothers me about the MMA's is that there are >a >lot of young guys with very disrespectful attitudes out there..and not >just >on TV but in society as a whole...it has nothing to do with their >ability >but it seems some of the original tenets taught in more of the >traditional >styles are getting ignored and we see a lot of bravado, machismo, hot >dogging, bad manners and just downright rudeness and disrespect to other > >people....BUT...if you watch the Gracies and listen to them they don't >have >that mindset or demeanor....they are a good model for future young >MMArtists >to follow IMHO....they are matter of fact...don't kiss anyone's >butt...but >are also very respectful and down to earth... > >with all that being typed...and probably not very well I might add...the >one >thing that the "new" grappling world misses is the idea that when you >have >to defend yourself out in public during a robbery attempt, car jacking, >rape >or worse there will more then likely be weapons involved...ie...knives, >guns, or blunt weapons, etc. and lately in the Orlando area, gangs or >packs >of thugs working together....these are not to be grappled with or taken >lightly...so while I also love grappling I think if you are training for > >true self defense you can't focus totally on that aspect or you will >still >have a huge hole in your training....bottom line is that in self defense > >nowdays I'm not much concerned with an olympic caliber wrestler or a MMA > >championship practitioner because I'm not going to spring break and >hanging >out drinking beer and fighting over some chick...I'm going to the ATM >once a >week,,,(ok more than once a week, ammo and ham and turkey is >exspensive!), >I'm going on vacation with my wife and teenage daughter, I'm going to >the >store after dark, and I'm a high school teacher....my threats are more >to do >with regular looking people with irregular minds and motives...and they >will >be dangerous....so now I try to spread my training around like I do that > >thick peanut butter on a good slice of low carb bread.....oh crap I >forgot...NOW PEANUT BUTTER MIGHT KILL YOU!!! > >Michael Tomlinson > >ps...the crime rate statistics for Orlando Florida from last year to >this >year same time have risen 123 percent!! Saw that on Dateline but most of >us >around here knew it already from watching the news....crazy stuff... > >_________________________________________________________________ >Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. >http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net >**************************************************************************** > > > >SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES > > > >Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety > > > >This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe >that >you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. >If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and >telephone >the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is Hot. *Terms. Get a 5.375%* fix rate. Check savings https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2bbb&disc=y&vers=925&s=4056&p=5117 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pelligrini Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know what his Kukkiwon rank is?  He claims 9th dan in his own ITA, but what was his WTF rank prior his forming his own organization? It is sad to see that GM Yoon apparently gave this guy some recognition (Master Instructor Certificate in Hosinsul from US Martial Arts Institute) if this guy's rank is inflated. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "michael tomlinson" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pelligrini Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:10:21 +0000 I feel what Dakin is saying and I agree..work out with who you want, spend your money on what you want...BUT please don't get defensive and mad when guys on here tell you the truth who were there and not gossiping but informing people of the "actual history" it's a service to people to hear this information and not a bashing on anyone....I'm getting too old for all that!!! ..I don't think Pelligrini got his BB in 1988 but I could be mistaken...the only way I know about all of this is because I was personally there on the mat when it all happened...Orange City...Chester Holubecki's Dojo...it was where MY instructor taught HKD at that time...we worked out there 3 times a week religiously and a lot of times on Saturday too, every class was 2 and a half hours or more...once a year Mike Wollmershauser came down to do a three to five day AHA seminar...Chester was from Springfield Mass, Mike W. was from Springfield Mass, and my instructor Steve Mortel who was one of Hal Whalen's first black belts, had moved to my area of Florida from Boston....lot's of Mass. guys who knew each other....that's why we were at an Isshin Ryu Karate Dojo doing "real" HKD..plus Chester had some really good mats which were hard to find in the early 90's and late 80's...anywho Pelligrini owned a tkd school in Sunrise Florida and ONLY came up for the seminar..no one in our area knew him at all....I saw him recieve his 1st dan from Mike W..Pelligrini didn't do HKD then,..and knew nothing about HKD before that seminar...by 1992 I was testing for my 1st dan with Hal Whalen and we were in the WHF under Kwang Sik Myung...Pelligrini was NOW in the WHF so I was aware of his entire HKD history in the very early stages....ask yourself this??? Pelligrini recieved his 1st and 2nd dan in the AHA...and they were basically honorary...then he jumped to the WHF when Mike W. wouldn't promote him anymore, where did I hear this? From Mike W. personally...no worries..doesn't concern me and I have nothing but good things to say about Mike W., he treated me great and showed me some awesome HKD..plus he was good friends with Hal Whalen and Steve Mortel...by 1993 or so Pelligrini was now a 4th or 5th dan in HKD under Myung....did I agree with this??? No, was it my business, no....so whatever..BUT...he was in the AHA and the WHF and that is the ONLY place he trained in HKD before he started his own thing....ok...fast tracked with two honorary HKD black belts in the AHA and skipped to 4th and 5th in the WHF,,, ALL WITHIN ABOUT 6 YEARS!!! I'm not saying anything about anyone on here...it is just the facts.....just one question more and I'll stop..... Why doesn't Pelligrini state these facts on his website???? I read all the info on his link with all his accolades and accomplishments and history...why would he not put his training on there with the AHA and the WHF....it doesn't make sense to me that you would leave off the two organizations where you recieved your actual HKD training???? Why is that??? Just some facts and questions....again...I don't care who or where anyone trains with....it's all up to you..if you love training with him that is great and I am happy for you..but putting advertisements on here about a seminar with marketing stuff that some of us old timers no better will get these kind of facts stated everytime...it's not bashing...it's our duty as old time HKD people to let EVERYONE know...you make your own choices and decisions...but at least you know the truth... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pelligrini >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:24:18 -0400 > >Michael Tomlinson says: > >Trained next to him at a HKD seminar in 1989 before he was even a >black belt >in Hapkido....good luck. > >Doug says: > > >With over 25 years of marital arts study & research, GM John >Pellegrini is > >recognized as one of the formost experts and a leading authority >on > >self-defense. > >Doug also said: > > He has 25 years study and research in the development of a >recognized kwan, >not in martial arts experience. Master Kish has 22 years experience >in >martial arts experience. > >Ray wrote: > >So lets see now... 20 years ago, he was a 0th Dan (aka Nada Dan) in >Hapkido. >So he claims that five years before that he began his journey to >develop >a Hapkido kwan?!? > >http://dsihq.com/ICHF/GMP.htm says: > >"Over 40 years of martial arts experience." > >My response: > >Michael says Pelligrini didn't have a black belt in hapkido in 1989. > David >Beck says he was awarded an honorary black belt in 1988 by Mike >Wollmerhauser. >http://www.beckmartialarts.com/chkdfaq.html >So the best that could be said of him about hapkido is that he has >almost 20 >years in the art. I'm not sure where the other 20 years of >experience come >from. Was he doing tkd or karate in 1967? I saw Pelligrini around >seven years >ago and thought his technique was pretty similar to what I knew at >that time; >I don't know what he's like now. I do know that personally I didn't >like his >attitude. It had a lot of ego in it, and when ego gets on the mat, >injuries >seem to increase. The students of his that I have met have a >similar chip on >the shoulder, so I'm not fond of playing with them. There are lots >of skill >levels represented in hapkido, and lots of different technical >emphases, so go >train at what you need. But for me it is all about attitude. JR >West's guys >have good technique, and are fun to play with. Hal Whalen has a lot >of great >technique, and is a wonderful guy to talk to. Wally Jay is the same >way. If >I'm going to pay money to work out, it will probably be with those >guys. > >Oh, one aside. One of Pelligrini's partners these days is Joe >Lansdale. I do >recommend you guys work with him if you get a chance. He's a >pleasant guy for >whom martial arts are a serious hobby, not how he makes a living. >He knows >his way around the mat and has a lot to offer. Read about him at: >http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan/newsletter/volume4/iss1/vol4iss1prnt.ht >m > >Yours in the arts, > >Dakin >dakinburdick@yahoo.com > >[demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef >which had a name of winmail.dat] >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest