Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:41:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #122 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Twisting punch (jay.oconnor@comcast.net) 2. Re: Twisting punch (Jye nigma) 3. RE: Twisting punch (Stovall, Craig) 4. just a few things (Horold whalen) 5. Twisting Punch (Gordon Okerstrom) 6. Article (Horold whalen) 7. Re: I Agree (Josh Nyberg) 8. RE: Twisting punch (jay.oconnor@comcast.net) 9. Re: Craig S. (Dr. Daryl Covington) 10. RE: Twisting punch (Howard Spivey) 11. RE: Twisting Punch (Simon Bland) 12. Re: KMA in Crestview (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Twisting punch Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:22:01 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Same here. I've heard about the twist motion of the punch to add to the impact, but never head it explained like Jye was saying. Take care, Jay -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com > Greetings Jye, > I don't know about the deep penetrating energy of such a punch, but I > was taught that the twisting motion adds velosity to the impact. Being in > the engineering field myself, that makes much more sense. > Victor > > > > > kingjye@yahoo.com > > 04/18/2007 02:08 To > PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, > itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com > cc > Please respond to > the_dojang@martia Subject > lartsresource.net [The_Dojang] Twisting punch > > > > > > > > > > > Hey everyone. I saw a TKd video called Taekwondo Revolution of Kicking. In > my opinion the video was poorly done overall. There were some good elements > to it, but overall it was a poor video. One thing I noticed on there that I > had never heard of before was the concept of spiral energy to penetrate the > human body. I'm paraphrasing... > > Basically, they said that the human body is composed of x amount of > water, and to strike it with a straight punch (as in boxing I suppose) > would cause the energy of the striker to disperse, whereas a punch with a > twisting motion (as in a corkscrew punch) delivers a spiral type energy > that penetrates deeply. Has anyone ever heard of this? if so is this true? > > Jye > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Twisting punch To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I provided the source video clip titled spiral force because I probably slaughtered their explanation. Jye http://youtube.com/watch?v=T8X0--IoyEg jay.oconnor@comcast.net wrote: Same here. I've heard about the twist motion of the punch to add to the impact, but never head it explained like Jye was saying. Take care, Jay -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com > Greetings Jye, > I don't know about the deep penetrating energy of such a punch, but I > was taught that the twisting motion adds velosity to the impact. Being in > the engineering field myself, that makes much more sense. > Victor > > > > > kingjye@yahoo.com > > 04/18/2007 02:08 To > PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, > itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com > cc > Please respond to > the_dojang@martia Subject > lartsresource.net [The_Dojang] Twisting punch > > > > > > > > > > > Hey everyone. I saw a TKd video called Taekwondo Revolution of Kicking. In > my opinion the video was poorly done overall. There were some good elements > to it, but overall it was a poor video. One thing I noticed on there that I > had never heard of before was the concept of spiral energy to penetrate the > human body. I'm paraphrasing... > > Basically, they said that the human body is composed of x amount of > water, and to strike it with a straight punch (as in boxing I suppose) > would cause the energy of the striker to disperse, whereas a punch with a > twisting motion (as in a corkscrew punch) delivers a spiral type energy > that penetrates deeply. Has anyone ever heard of this? if so is this true? > > Jye > > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Twisting punch Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:09:53 -0500 To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know the Systema folks like to stand around and jack each other up with short little twisting punches to the body. You can find lots of footage of this type of stuff on youtube, etc. Assuming there's no fakery, the punches seem to generate a lot of pain on the recipient relative to the small amount of effort that seems to go into the punch. You may want to find a board with some Systema, or Russian Martial Art types who can speak to the theory behind all of this. The old time boxers recommended twisting/turning the punches over because the idea was that the knuckles would grab the skin on contact and have a higher propensity to cause a cut. I've yet to see any double blind, clinical studies to prove this, but I usually listen to the old timers as a practice. 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Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:19:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Horold whalen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] just a few things Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Master Timmerman , It has been awhile since we talked or wrote .I hope all is well in your Camp and up north, by the way congratulations on the Successful seminar. Master Timmerman is a Class act and One we all look up to ( plus he is taller then me ) I miss some of his talks about life ,and love etc........ I consider myself lucky to have met him . Also A quick hello To my Friend Master J.R West the man Who kept out of Prison ha ha ..... Only he and Holcombe know what I mean Speaking of Holcombe he is currently in Korea visiting Master Kim Nam Jae , and the KHF headquarters for some meetings The three men I mentioned are all Older than me ,But I am much better looking and they know that and respect me for it ha ha ha ha......... To those that know crazy Tim Walsh he is back after his Volunteer trip or assignment to Iraq ,He is home in one piece and back on the Mat until he heads back to a brief stateside assignment before He once again Heads for To Coronado , Jack O call me or drop, Rick, Mike F a Quick note we are going out With Tim before he heads West To the left coast --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:27:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Twisting Punch Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye, It's been quite a while since my high school physics class but, I think I remember the idea. I know this probably sounds obvious but, consider the effect of rifling on a bullet verses the non-rotating round ball of a musket, the spiral on a football and so on. The effect of rotation on a mass, through its axis, keeps it on a linear path, like a gyroscope. This is called moment of inertia or, the ability of an object to resist change. In this case, the angular momentum or rotation of the object. This enhances the objects ability to remain on its course or, on its path. i.e the better ability to not be deflected. This allows the balance of the mass, the stuff behind the impact, to remain on target as well. So, when the fist hits in a "spinning" punch, it will less likely be deflected and the balance of the weapon follows behind the impact. That being: the forearm, shoulder, back, hips, legs, feet and their grip on the earth. I believe rotation also plays a part in the burrowing ability of a drill bit. So, consider that a "spinning" punch may also burrow into its target like a drill bit would. Thereby, depositing its effect deeper into the target. High School was 1973 for me so, I probably screwed up some of the terms but, you get my drift. -Yes sir, we spin all of our techniques; punches, blocks, kicks, falls, stances and so on. I believe it enhances power, speed and focus. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:31:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Horold whalen To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Article Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Allison thank you for your thinking about an article about senior Masters in America , I would have to decline All of my Doboks are raggy and I do not have any New ones for pictures ,So it rules me out and I have very few pictures of me with any Celebrity's Actually ,the only pictures i have of me are with people No one knows ,And are too busy to take a picture. And Craig the certificate thing was funny ,I have not put one on my Walls for years ,When i ran my Dojang the only one there was my current rank and My Instructors license as required by City. And as far as the Belt thing Jim Dana,Steve Mortell, Mike McCarty, Mike Tomlinson. Carl Ryan,Tim Walsh And Al Horgon all have my belts that were awarded to me .since these Black Belts all shared a apart of my life --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:22:30 -0500 From: "Josh Nyberg" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: I Agree Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to add my amen to the chorus of those who already posted. I've only known of Hapkido for two years but I've quickly learned the benefits of having someone who really knows what they are doing teach you technique as opposed to the alternative. It'll be another 20 years before I really know how to do anything but getting thrown around by Master Hilland three nights a week is definitely time well spent. "Success Is the Ability To Go From One Failure To Another With No Loss of Enthusiasm" -Winston Churchill --__--__-- Message: 8 From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Twisting punch Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:58:10 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The old time boxers recommended twisting/turning the punches over > because the idea was that the knuckles would grab the skin on contact > and have a higher propensity to cause a cut. I've yet to see any double > blind, clinical studies to prove this, but I usually listen to the old > timers as a practice. *That* was the explanation given me by my first TKD instructor Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:44:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Daryl Covington" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Craig S. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You did quite a good job of filling in the "insane rant" catagory in place of Bruce, but I liked it! Stay true. daryl seoul, ROK --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:10:48 -0500 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Twisting punch Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net -----Original Message----- From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net [mailto:jay.oconnor@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:58 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Twisting punch "The old time boxers recommended twisting/turning the punches over because the idea was that the knuckles would grab the skin on contact and have a higher propensity to cause a cut. I've yet to see any double blind, clinical studies to prove this, but I usually listen to the old timers as a practice." Thomas Hearns was very good at this. Just think about the terrible cut he opened up over Marvin Hagler's eye in, I think, the first round of their fight. Would have been a fight-stopper at some point, which led Hagler to throw caution to the wind, and resulted in three (or four, can't recall) of the best rounds of boxing I've ever seen in my life. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Simon Bland" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:23:21 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Twisting Punch Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The relevant variables, from a physics perspective, are: 1) The mass involved in the punch. 2) The speed of the punch. 3) The time between impact and the punch coming to a stop. 4) The quality of the surface being struck - rigid or flexible? Striking with a reverse punch allows you to use more of your mass in the strike than a straight jab. This assumes good stance and good form, of course. The speed of the strike is variable to the martial artist - some punch faster than others. The time between impact and the punch stopping is relevant because it determines the dispersal of energy to the target. If your punch penetrates 2 inches into someone's gut before stopping, that is going to deliver less energy than if you only penetrate say 1/4th of an inch, because the time elapsing between impact and the punch coming to rest is significantly shorter. Quality of the surface is relevant to energy delivery. Something with a lot of flexibility is going to convert the force you deliver into radiating vectors from impact, and into heat via friction, so your total strike is less damaging. This is why a punch to the collarbone is more effective than a punch to the stomach. The bit about spiral energy and about the percentage of water content in the human body strikes me as pretty much BS. The reverse punch is stronger than a jab because there is more mass behind the strike, due to how you twist into it with your whole body. The relative hydration of your target couldn't be less relevant IMO. As far as penetrating power, you generally want less penetration, not more, so that seems a little suspect too. Cheers Simon _________________________________________________________________ MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John.  Enter to win today. http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:28:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KMA in Crestview From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Posted some pictures at www.gordonmartialarts.com/picture/2007/picture041507KMA.htm If that get's chopped off, go to http://snipurl.com/1h3mj A bunch ended up being too dark but I'll get more posted as some of the other CD's come to me. Master Janisse is working on a DVD as well. Many, many thanks for all the kind words and support. See ya next year! On a much more important note, for those of you praying types, Dr. McKillican's (one of the seminar leaders) son attends Virginia Tech and is dealing with the lost of a few of his friends. As you can imagine, I'm sure they were horrified to hear of the massacre and yet thankful their son was okay. Thomas Gordon Florida -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest