Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:58:34 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #125 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Several Items (J R Hilland) 2. Twisting Punch (E. Montgomery) 3. twisting punch (Donald) 4. Re: Several Items (Ray) 5. New USAT Membership Services Assistant (The_Dojang) 6. Re: Several Items (michael tomlinson) 7. MDK or Hapkido with GJJ (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. Seminars (kwan jang) 9. RE: Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido (steven riggs) 10. Ranks and belts etc etc etc (SlaneSavage) 11. Virginia Tech, TKD (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 12. Ranks (Thomas Gordon) 13. (no subject) (Curt McCauley) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:05:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Several Items Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain wrote: <<<"I agree, and have tried some. A few years ago I tried to write an article about GM West and the Jackson gathering and Black Belt magazine was not interested. GM West was not a "name." I would be interested in helping promote Hapkido more,>>> Alain, I hope all is well my friend. I am surprised and disappointed they turned down your article, you are a well known hapkido author. However, I remember BB Magazine sent a writer (Floyd Burk) and a photographer to the February 2006 Jackson event. I also noticed he spent a lot of time talking with GM West and Master Holcombe Thomas. The article I mention is from the July 2006 issue of BBM. As I have the article in front of me, I will give a brief quote: >From the article in BB magazine: "On February 24/26, 2006, more than 300 hapkido practitioners converged in Jackson, Mississippi, for three days of arduous training at the International Korean Martial Arts Seminar. The host and chief instructor, J. R. West, has conducted the biannual event 23 times, and as I made plans to attend No. 24, I was looking forward to learning why people from 32 states and four countries had made the trek. I soon discovered the recipe for West's success: his ability to perform hapkido and his methods for conveying it to students at all levels. West's physical skills go hand in hand with his teaching method. An attention-grabbing Vietnam vet with an eighth-degree black belt, he moves with grace and executes each technique and combination as though his opponent is nothing more than an apparition. ..." Master Whalen wrote: <<<...Also A quick hello To my Friend Master J.R. West, the man Who kept out of Prison ha ha ..... Only he and Holcombe know what I mean. Speaking of Holcombe he is currently in Korea visiting Master Kim Nam Jae , and the KHF headquarters for some meetings....>>> Sorry Hal, but there are a few of us who also know the story. Sometimes I kind of wish he had let you do it. :) FWIW: Master Thomas should also be on the senior list. For those that don't know (as they have quietly been doing things correctly for a very long time), Master Hal Whalen and Master Holcombe Thomas are the senior KHF yudanja in the US. GM West is the senior Daehan Kidowhe American and the first American hapkido dan holder. I have spent some quality mat time with all of these gentlemen over the years and they are outstanding hapkidoin. Thank you Jack for including me on your list of senior hapkidoin. We miss seeing you on the mats in Jackson. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com USKMAF (www.hapkido.com) www.jrhilland.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:07:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Montgomery" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Twisting Punch Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know that when we train, in throwing punches in the air we rotate the fist from chambered, fingers up, knuckles down to extended, knuckles up and fingers down. However, in point sparring we don't do that per se because it slows the speed of your punch. We also don't torque the body as much in point sparring because we are using light contact, hitting the bag or a wave master for power, torque away. Elle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Donald" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:02:38 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] twisting punch Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've read the various posts on this subject, but haven't seen these 2 points covered yet. #1: IMVHO, a 'twisting punch' is going to be inherently faster for most folks, because to perform the 'snap/rotation', one must keep the muscles semi-relaxed until a nano-second before impact. A 'stiff/flexed' muscle is a slow moving muscle. Hope you get the gist of it. Was a music major in college, could only count to 4, so all the hocus-pocus of physics is still in the realm of magic to me. #2: re the penetration of the punch into human flesh/water-laced tissue: the transmission of 'power' from an impact is a direct function of the strike's ability to cause the greatest possible pain and/or fracture bones. Humans have a high liquid content. Liquid DOES NOT COMPRESS. Therefore, the force of the impact radiates out from the point of impact AND the path of penetration to trigger the pain-receptors. The deeper the penetration, the more pain-receptors triggered. Think of the hydro-static shock phenomena from a gunshot wound as an example. Yes, some pressure point strikes can cause crippling pain with minimal 'penetration' of the strike, but I believe this the exception. Rather, think about breaking a board - if you stop the strike at the surface of the board, it won't break [at least for those of us who are 'chi-challenged]. Instead, you have to send the strike THROUGH the board by several inches. And yes, the elasticity of a human target determines whether they receive a broken bone [hard surface] or are doubled over in pain from a soft tissue strike [soft surface]. If I am in a situation where striking another person is morally justified, you can bet the farm I'm gonna try to drive that strike all the way through his body. Please forgive my ignorance of the physics and/or metaphysics involved, just my experience and thoughts. pil seung, Don "can't measure a 1/4 inch punch anyway" Ross --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Several Items To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Sorry Hal, but there are a few of us who also know the story. Sometimes > I kind of wish he had let you do it. :) Ditto... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:20:42 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New USAT Membership Services Assistant Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Adam Brown Named Membership Services Assistant April 18, 2007 USA Taekwondo has announced the hiring of Adam Brown as Membership Services Assistant. Brown, a native of Portland, Ore., will replace Michelle George who is leaving the organization to pursue other interests, namely the Air Force Reserves. Brown will serve as the main contact for dan certification and will assist Senior Manager of Membership and Referee Development Jeanna Mendoza in all phases of membership services. USAT welcomes Adam to the organization and wishes Michelle well in her new endeavors. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Several Items Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:03:41 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net YEAH....But I would of been the one that would of had to go bail him out of jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL..... Michael Tomlinson >From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Several Items >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:06:04 -0700 (PDT) > > > Sorry Hal, but there are a few of us who also know the story. >Sometimes > > I kind of wish he had let you do it. :) > >Ditto... > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:31:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK or Hapkido with GJJ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well let me first say that I am not a Hapkido practitioner, however I am famililar with the art. IMHO both Hapkido and Moo Duk Kwan have a lot to offer as primarly stand up arts. Both offer HoShinSool techniques and some limited ground defense. But as far as one being a better compliment to GJJ/BJJ I can't say one offers more than the other. I often use hoshinsool based concepts while rolling-- that I learned in Moo Duk Kwan, however IMHO MDK,HKD, TKD all have very little to offer once you are on the ground with a person skilled in GJJ/BJJ Dont take my word for it. Go to a legitamate GJJ/BJJ school and roll with a Black Belt in GJJ. or just watch the UFC and try to identify all the traditional Korean technique you see. You may see a very poorly executed roundhouse kick or front kick I credit MDK with teaching me a great base and the traditional values associated with Martial Arts. GJJ just allowed me to maintain the confidence I have standing once the fights goes to the ground JC _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117 --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "kwan jang" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:35:48 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark Writes: <> Hello Mark. I could not agree more with your evaluation of Alain's work. Having worked with him, I too recommend attending his seminars (or obtaining his books etc.) Warmest personal regards, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I basically agree with Joseph as I did not spend a night in the Holiday Inn either. Seriously I have been in Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan since 1973 and his basic description fits the pattern in which I was taught and I in turn pass down. It is somewhat more traditional but I prefer to use the description that it retains it's emphasis on it as an art. Hwang Kee's desire was for the art to be a place for people to grow and develop into better people. For those people to influence their community's in a positive .way. I also agree on the less interest in the sport aspects. Now I had a number of classmates that competed quite a bit and were highly successful. Obviously Chuck Norris comes to mind as one of many who had dan rankings and competed successfully. I believe Billy Blanks and Cynthia Rothrock both had TSD MDK black belts. For me one of the strongest differences in TSD/MDK as I learned from a white belt was the powerful emphasis on practical self-defense. Two of my three main instructors had military/law enforcement backgrounds. I went into law enforcement and carried the practical self-defense with me and instructed other police officers in both PA & NC. TSD/MDK is between weak and non-existent in ground work. This always influenced me to be extra careful to not go to the ground. As a police officer I had a firearm on my right hip and the last thing I wanted was to be rolling around on the ground. This kept me highly motivated to retain myself upright and balanced. I would also agree that some form of study of ground fighting is important to be a well rounded martial artist. I am not qualified to rate one above the other. I have a TSD master (4th dan) that started working with Carlson Gracie Jr. as police officer training sessions. He later transferred his training to another instructor in grappling but not specifically BJJ. As of a week ago he was going to add Kodokan Judo to his repertoire. So I just pick up the phone and ask him to come up and teach my students every so often sessions on ground work with the focus being on if you go to the ground how fast can you get back up. Steven Riggs. stevencriggs@yahoo.com Joseph Cheavens wrote: I'm not JC, don't play him on TV, and did not spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express, but I have a few thoughts on this. Mu Duk Kwan is the kwan found by Hwang Kee shortly after Korean independence from Japan. It is one of the kwan that split over unification of the Tang Soo Do, Kong Soo Do, Subak Do, organizations and kwan into what became Tae Kwon Do and the Korean Tae Kwon Do Association in the 1960s (Ji Do Kwan was the other kwan that fractured over this). So, most Mu Duk Kwan schools tend to be more "traditional" in their approach to MA and less sport oriented than most TKD schools (please notice the qualifiers "tend to" and "most" before flaming me fellow TKDists or sport oriented MDKists). As to which would compliment GJJ/BJJ better, MDK or HKD, I'd say both. I haven't done HKD except for some cross training with the HKD guys, but I have studied some Aikido, done TKD for many years, and am currently studying GJJ under Phil Cardella, who is a Relson Gracie black belt and MMA fighter, here in Austin. http://www.austinjj.com/ My TKD isn't really applicable in GJJ training, except for ballance and timing in the stand-up grappling before we go to the mat in sparring, in addition to the watered down judo applications that I learned as part of my TKD hoshinsul curriculum that I am occasionally able to pull off. However, I think that it most compliments the GJJ well in terms of giving me a non-grappling/striking based skill set. My Aikido training comes in more handy a bit in terms of controlling my opponents ballance in the stand up grappling (would probably be even more effective if my Aikido was better than 1st kyu level - I've only been able to use a pure Aikido throw or takedown on anyone twice now), but comes in more handy in terms of grips (i.e. grabbing and conrolling your opponents wrists or uniform or countering their grabs) and occasionaly using wrist manipulations to move their arm in to position for a submission (e.g. Kimuras, omaplatas, key locks, reverse arm bars). If you haven't studied any GJJ/BJJ before, I highly recommend giving it a try. Hope this helps. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:38:10 +0100 Hi JC I know that you said that you are a MDK instructor. I'm not sure how that differs from HKD but could you say if MDK is good for GJJ or is HKD better complimented to GJJ. Thank you -----Original Message----- From: Gladewater SooBahkDo [mailto:gladewatersoobahkdo@msn.com] Sent: 09 April 2007 15:44 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rorian Gracie VS Hapkido Ray As a Moo Duk Kwan Instructor and a student of Rorion Gracie's oldest son Rener Gracie. I can tell you from experiance that What you see on the you tube clip is accurrate in every since. I know how to kick and puch to the head. Rener can take me down at will. Once on the ground, if you do not know GJJ you will get submitted. I have seen some of the challange matches in recent times. They alway turn out the same. I watched a TKD Blackbelt guy get submitted 3 times after challanging Rener in California, I watched a Wrestler get submitted that out weighed Rener by 50lbs when he challanged him during the G.R.A.P.L.E. course last December. I personally have rolled with him many times, Its the real deal. The problem is some still think they can armchair quarterback, Roll with one of the Gracies then say you could have puched or kicked JC _________________________________________________________________ MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter to win today. http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Messenger. Join the i’m Initiative. Help make a difference today. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Sensei Steven Riggs Master Instructor American Defensive Arts Master of Philosophy in Martial Science stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:51:55 +0100 (BST) From: SlaneSavage To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ranks and belts etc etc etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Stovall - with deepest respect. "all those certificates and belts are worth...kindling." 100% True, no arguement "I train for the pure love of what I do. I don't care who likes it" For some, it is about personal advancement, continual self improvement is the goal. For others money, ego, etc such is life. I would like to hear more about your journey as I have always found inspiration from your previous posts. Are you still getting in the ring? "Since Bruce Simms is no longer here to provide a monthly insane rant I figure I'd fill his shoes for him LOL monthly!, I seem to remember it was at least weekly. His rants aside, I kinna miss Bruce, at least he was adept at articulating his view. Best regards Slane ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:07:39 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Virginia Tech, TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas said: "On a much more important note, for those of you praying types, Dr. McKillican's (one of the seminar leaders) son attends Virginia Tech and is dealing with the lost of a few of his friends. As you can imagine, I'm sure they were horrified to hear of the massacre and yet thankful their son was okay." I'm sure they were. I live approx. 90 miles north of Blacksburg, VA where Va. Tech is. You just can't imagine what the mood is around here, even being 90 miles away unless you have experienced something like this first hand. Even us die-hard WVU Mountaineer fans are sporting VT colors in honor of those who lost thier lives. I personally did not lose any loved ones, or knew any of the innocent victims who were destined to become great leaders and figures of our time, but there are alot of folks around here with close ties to VT. LOTS of people in my area went to VT, have children who go there now, or know someone who is there. There is no reason why that should have happened, period, and I hope that that Cho son of a bitch is getting an extreme rectal party with a burning hot pitchfork about now. He deserves it. I see that one of the victims was a Tae Kwon Do student from Annandale, VA. Does anyone know what school she came from, who her instructor was, etc? She was the public relations director for VT's Tae Kwon Do club. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:22:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Same old argument and with the same old rebuttals. If earned, accolades should be indicative of authority in a profession/industry. Those suggesting they loath rank generally attempt to train with someone in position of authority. How did the person in that position get there? Hummm....by "rank" of some sort or the other. By getting on the mat and testing for it whether the test be in front of grandmaster so-n-so or in front of the refs & fans as they pounded someone to submission. Many of the people that say rank doesn't matter have it listed on their websites...and often, on the front page of their site. Or they'll have huge bio pages and pictures with "important people", copies of certificates, or letters of recommendations. In the professional world, we generally refer to this as a "love me wall." A healthy ego is just that, healthy - and it SHOULD show the consumer this person has proven themselves. Now we all know that's hard to do in the unregulated martial art world but I don't want to go there. Those that photoshop or buy their rank is another matter entirely. (I don't mean test and pay the testing/certification fee...I mean really buy rank) Some spend 15-20 years getting to 4th or 5th degree and then suddenly jump to ninth overnight. I know this probably isn't the most popular post but that's me and sometimes my opinions get me on the wrong side of people. As a dear friend of mine told me this past weekend and I recently posted on another list, some people don't always care for me because I call a spade a spade...then look around and realize I'm in a room full of shovels. Heck, no offense meant, I've said some harsh things that applied to me as well. :) Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:46:21 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Readers. About two or three weeks ago someone sent a site to click onto that showed a new Hapkido video. It showed a young man doing basic falls. If I remember correctly he had on a blue Do bahk. \ The site said that the video would be for sale soon but invited the viewer to watch. I deleted this particular issue by mistake, but wanted to purchase this particular video. Can the person who posted this, repost it? Thanks. Curt McCauley Chief Instructor Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest