Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 02:58:29 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #180 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. The Sells in Villa Rica Georgia (The Hindley's) 2. Interesting thread regarding Choson (Ray) 3. belt colors (MSKBEvans@aol.com) 4. Copenhagen to Host 2009 World Taekwondo Chip (The_Dojang) 5. video clip: pushing millstone posture (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "The Hindley's" To: Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:04:49 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] The Sells in Villa Rica Georgia Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Many times I have went to other schools visiting or going to seminars featuring prominent martial artists only to receive the graciousness of masters and students spreading the camaraderie of Budo. Taking the time to speak to you and posing for photos and giving autographs. So after hearing that Grandmaster Edward sell and his wife Master Brenda Sell were to be in our little town of Villa Rica Georgia for a day of fun and MA I wanted to take my two sons to see some pillars of the MA community. What a dissapointment it was for me and my two youg men. It was more like a circus. Selling hot dogs and drinks, face painting and a raffel, ect, ect, not to take away from this school owner his ability to recoup the costs of bringing the Sell's to GA but for him to try to recruit us for his school after knowing we were practicing MA was not the way I have witnessed at other events. With over 100 people there at 40 bucks a shot to get an autograph or picture seems a little over the top. Nothng about costing money. It was a grand new opening. Look at the flyer: http://www.intoarts.net/ The school was more like a diploma mill and the Master more like a businessman. Another McDojang After talking with him he saw a WHA crest I was wearing on a shirt and stated that he had heard i had a little MA experience (After 30 years I feel like this was disrespectful). He said they practiced Hapkido as well but I found out it was Combat Hapkido and I wont even go there. I said nothing of Pellagrini and showed no disrespect. I told him that after years of following the Sells career that I wanted my sons to see them and maybe get a photo and autograph on an old issue of TKD times featureing the Sell's. He said no problem but we would have to purchase their curriculum manual for $40 and they would hapily autograph it and give a photo opp. I was flaberghasted. Never have I been charged for something like this. Come to find out that Edward Sell would not be there anyway. We immediatly left after I asked my sons how they felt about this. They were truely disapointed as was I. My son said would you charge someone for your autograph dad. They knew the answer. Was wondering if anyone has been in this situation or your comments on the event and structure. Greg Hindley Douglasville, GA --__--__-- Message: 2 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:59:01 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] Interesting thread regarding Choson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From Korea studies list re The Land of the Morning Calm... Ernesto's question is well put. The problem is that this "morning calm" business is so old, so deeply entrenched, and worst of all so blindly accepted by the Korean airline and tourist industry, that we will never get rid of it, even though it was wrong, wrong, wrong from the day it was imagined by some Western ignoramus, probably British or American, way back in the 1870s or early 1880s. Like the even sillier and actually pernicious "hermit kingdom," it will plague us forever. Why is it that Korea got stuck with these "poetic sobriquets" (as they've been described)? I can't think of any phrases this bad that have been pinned on China or Japan. Mark is probably right that it was originally a Chinese phonetic transcription of some native name used among the eastern peoples in the Korean neighborhood. It appeared in Chinese books long before Korean books existed, probably the 4th century BCE (depending on when one dates the first appearance in Chinese literature of the Kija/Choson story). The problem is that no one has any idea what kind of a name it was intended to represent. Kirk is right to observe that the reading given to the phrase in Chinese, i.e. Chao2-xian1 (numerals indicating Mandarin tones), does not have any direct connection with "morning," because in the Chinese reading that sense is represented by the pronunciation zhao1. But while it's true that chao2 is the reading in the sense of "court," that was not the primary meaning of the graph according to Chinese classical etymologists and lexicographers. They rather considered it to be the original written form of the word for "tide," specifically "morning tide," now written using the same character but with the "water" classifier affixed on the left side. In the sense of "tide" or "court" the graph is believed to have been pronounced in pre-Han times (pre-2nd century BCE) something like *dhyog (>chao2), with a voiced, aspirated, dental occlusive initial (it's not possible in email formats to use the proper diacritics, which is why I say "approximately"). In the sense of "morning" it was pronounced approximately *tyog (>zhao1,a voiceless, unaspirated, dental occlusive initial. As for graph -xian1, the second syllable of Chaoxian, it does not mean "calm" at all. Its pre-Han pronunciation has been reconstructed as approximately *syan, having no connection whatever to anything involving calm or calmness. As the graph itself (a combination of graphs for "fish" and "sheep") suggests, it is originally defined as fresh (or new) fish or meat for eating. That is the primary definition given in good, classically based dictionaries. Considering the compound form Chaoxian (Dhyogsyan), if it had been intended to mean anything, the closest we could get would be "tidal freshness," but given the food-based, savory etymology, that would have probably been seen as a hopelessly mixed metaphor. In fact it is risky to try to translate it at all, and if it was indeed intended to be a phonetic transcription of some native name heard in the vicinity of the Korean peninsula, as most scholars believe, than it would be self-defeating to attempt to translate it at all. Many late 19th-century Westerners, in particular British and American ones, often manifested a tendency to exoticize the east. They would go to a dictionary like Mathews' Chinese-English one, look up his definitions, and create some quaint, exotic phrase. Few if any of them had any idea how to look up and confirm etymologies of ancient Chinese graphs, much less recognize a tone or a voiced/voiceless distinction. "Morning Calm" and "Hermit Kingdom" are cases in point. It was just orientalist mischief, and rather than trying to translate their inventions, we should really be trying to weed them out of our discourse. But as I already said, that project is probably hopeless. Gari Ledyard Quoting "Ernie" : > Dear list members, I just hope this subject has not appear before, but would > you agree with the translation of Cho-son as 'The land of the morning > calm?', which have been fully accepted since Lowell wrote his famous book in > late 1880s? I lack the knowledge on Chinese language to explain these two > characters which form the world Cho-son, but what about changing 'CALM' for > 'RADIANCE' or 'FRESHNESS', or even 'PURITY' as I've some times read? > > Thanks and regards. > > Ernesto, from Madrid --__--__-- Message: 3 From: MSKBEvans@aol.com Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:42:10 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] belt colors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<<...and how about the camouflage belt? :-)>>>>> Dunno never seen one Ever since I started using camo belt my attendance has fallen way off too. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:06:16 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Copenhagen to Host 2009 World Taekwondo Chip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Copenhagen to Host 2009 World Taekwondo Championships COPENHAGEN, Denmark, earned the right to host the 2009 World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) World Taekwondo Championships in Beijing at the WTF General Assembly on May 17, 2007. Baku, Azerbaijan, offered to withdraw its candidacy as the host site of the showpiece event at the last moment, leaving Copenhagen no bidding hindrance. The Copenhagen delegation promised to make the 2009 World Taekwondo Championships the best ever taekwondo event. Lars Lundov, director of sports federation of Denmark, said: "this project has been a great example of a fully integrated Danish bid, with the right balance between the sport governing body and the local and regional authorities." "We have started early, we have planned our concept carefully, and we have taken the necessary steps to convey the benefits for the World Taekwondo Federation in hosting their World Championships in Copenhagen in 2009." Copenhagen in 2009 will also host the International Olympic Committee (IOC) Session and Olympic Congress, which is slated to decide on many issues of the future in Olympic movement. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: kingjye@yahoo.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: pushing millstone posture Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCEz9KCNV4A --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest