Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:58:32 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #183 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: RE: Dr. Kano (Joseph Cheavens) 2. camo belts (Donald) 3. Re: camo belts (Jye nigma) 4. Re: camo belts (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 5. RE: camo belts (Rick Clark) 6. RE: RE: Dr. Kano (Rick Clark) 7. RE: Dr. Kano (J R Hilland) 8. RE: camo belts (Jye nigma) 9. Master Hampton (WTSDA Bruce) 10. RE: camo belts (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Dr. Kano Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:26:17 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick, Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing that. FWIW, with regards to gup/dan grades and belt colors, my first instructor, Sean Owen, started training in Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do around 1967 or '68 in Berkeley, CA from my recollection. His instructor was Bong Young Choi. The belt system that Mr. Choi used and was/is used by Mr. Owen was an 8 gup system of white, yellow, 3 grades of green, and 3 grades of brown. We had belt tests twice a year, so it usually took four years to earn dan grade. The explanation for the color schema that I was taught was that the darkening of the colors was supposed to represent the student's deepening knowledge of the art. One benefit of this color schema for the student was that the student could use the same belt from white through brown and just die the belt a new color when one was promoted from one color grade to the next. We used to have a belt dying party after rank tests to celebrate the promotions of those that passed. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rick Clark" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Dr. Kano Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:01:41 -0400 JR, From: J R Hilland [mailto:hapkido@wah.midco.net] Rick, it makes you wonder where he got it? :) << To: "dojang_digest" Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:46:48 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] camo belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While my personal opinion of a camo belt is also the politically incorrect 'OMG, you CAN'T be serious!!' , such a belt might be appropriate for the Brokeback Mountain dojang. But in the final analysis, isn't a belt just a strip of cloth to keep the dobok reined in? Aren't the martial art concepts ingrained into the mind, heart, and muscle memory more important than the color scheme of the belt? And no, I wouldn't trade my hard-earned black belt for anything, not even purple spandex! pil seung, Don Ross --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] camo belts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net if a belt is to represent a person's level then let that be it's function. Much like the stars a general wears. Sure those things are just worn on clothes, but they have a meaning behind them. So for me, if your belt is just to hold up your pants cool, but if it has some type of symbolic meaning behind it ir; rank, hard work, etc then let that be worth something, and if it is worth something, then you can easily see why a camo belt is a joke. kind of like a 5 rainbow general...lol Jye Donald wrote: While my personal opinion of a camo belt is also the politically incorrect 'OMG, you CAN'T be serious!!' , such a belt might be appropriate for the Brokeback Mountain dojang. But in the final analysis, isn't a belt just a strip of cloth to keep the dobok reined in? Aren't the martial art concepts ingrained into the mind, heart, and muscle memory more important than the color scheme of the belt? And no, I wouldn't trade my hard-earned black belt for anything, not even purple spandex! pil seung, Don Ross _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] camo belts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Another purpose for the different colors of belts: It allows instructors and assistant instructors to readily/easily identify a student's level of skill making the class flow smoothly when grouping/pairing students for practicing forms, kicking/punching techniques, sparring & self defense. It also alerts other students to their partner's/opponent's skill level, which is very handy when dealing with newer student's that I am not familiar with. Vic kingjye@yahoo.com 06/20/2007 01:22 To PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia Re: [The_Dojang] camo belts lartsresource.net if a belt is to represent a person's level then let that be it's function. Much like the stars a general wears. Sure those things are just worn on clothes, but they have a meaning behind them. So for me, if your belt is just to hold up your pants cool, but if it has some type of symbolic meaning behind it ir; rank, hard work, etc then let that be worth something, and if it is worth something, then you can easily see why a camo belt is a joke. kind of like a 5 rainbow general...lol Jye Donald wrote: While my personal opinion of a camo belt is also the politically incorrect 'OMG, you CAN'T be serious!!' , such a belt might be appropriate for the Brokeback Mountain dojang. But in the final analysis, isn't a belt just a strip of cloth to keep the dobok reined in? Aren't the martial art concepts ingrained into the mind, heart, and muscle memory more important than the color scheme of the belt? And no, I wouldn't trade my hard-earned black belt for anything, not even purple spandex! pil seung, Don Ross _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:19:19 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] camo belts To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If memory serves me correctly Hang Un Lee, then head of the ATA did market research and came up with the camo belt. They needed another color belt to add into the system so their young students would have an extra belt test. They wanted to find out what belt color would be most attractive to their market. This was around the time that the G.I. Joe action figure was popular with young kids. Hence the use of the camo belt. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:28:36 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Dr. Kano To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Joseph, From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] Rick, Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing that. [ ] Thanks, I found the research on the article to be very interesting. When I was a kid (50's) we belonged to a club in Evansville IN called the "Turners Club". I learned how to swim there, they had fencing, gymnastics, basketball, and other sports. I did not realize that it anglicized version of a Turnerschaft. I have since found out that there were other Turner's clubs in the Midwest, interesting stuff for me. FWIW, with regards to gup/dan grades and belt colors, my first instructor, Sean Owen, started training in Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do around 1967 or '68 in Berkeley, CA from my recollection. His instructor was Bong Young Choi. The belt system that Mr. Choi used and was/is used by Mr. Owen was an 8 gup system of white, yellow, 3 grades of green, and 3 grades of brown. We had belt tests twice a year, so it usually took four years to earn dan grade. The explanation for the color schema that I was taught was that the darkening of the colors was supposed to represent the student's deepening knowledge of the art. One benefit of this color schema for the student was that the student could use the same belt from white through brown and just die the belt a new color when one was promoted from one color grade to the next. We used to have a belt dying party after rank tests to celebrate the promotions of those that passed. [ ] Back "in the day" we had white, green, brown, and black (Judo). Rick Clark Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rick Clark" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Dr. Kano Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:01:41 -0400 JR, From: J R Hilland [mailto:hapkido@wah.midco.net] Rick, it makes you wonder where he got it? :) << To: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:34:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Dr. Kano Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read the article, thanks for the link. He quotes Drager and I am not a fan of his, I have found errors in Drager's work before. The article was good nevertheless, except that he left out that at the time, Dr. Kano did borrow the system from the swimming athletes (and others) who had obtained the system from the 17th century. So he is missing the 'current' link in the chain. But I am sure there are some 18 century links missing... Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:51:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] camo belts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...lesson learned...everything that works for cartoons isn't for real life...lol Jye Rick Clark wrote: If memory serves me correctly Hang Un Lee, then head of the ATA did market research and came up with the camo belt. They needed another color belt to add into the system so their young students would have an extra belt test. They wanted to find out what belt color would be most attractive to their market. This was around the time that the G.I. Joe action figure was popular with young kids. Hence the use of the camo belt. Rick Clark _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:10:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Hampton Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Another WTSDA Master has passed. It was a pleasure of mine to know Master Hampton, she was inspiring. http://obits.mlive.com/Flint/DeathNotices.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonID=89106281 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] camo belts Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:30:47 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wasn't around when someone decided to make 9 forms the under-black belt requirement as seen for many of the striking arts. However, I do know there are nine required forms up to 1st degree black belt in ITF Taekwon-Do. In ITF, a student may have a yellow belt with a green tip or a plain green belt or a green belt with blue tip and so on. What's the difference in giving the student a green piece of tap or another belt? Either way they've still tested and likely paid for the testing. Some of you folks like to give your time for free or next to free as you work day jobs to make your house payment. Bows to ya! My local instructor does that and he's more a man than most men I've met. As for us, my family gave up a good source of income, retirement, and medical benefits so my bride could work our school full time and give our students "full time job" attention and still be able to be a mother to our children and wife to me. Some of these discussions come down to perspective. I don't have a problem with extra belts because most of us striking arts already had the extra ranks. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest