Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:33:01 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #185 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: belts, etc (sidtkd@aol.com) 2. ITF UNIFORM TRIM (Gordon Okerstrom) 3. Re: Re: belts, etc (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 4. RE: Re: belts, etc (Rick Clark) 5. myth or truth? no sex while in training (Jye nigma) 6. Re: Re: belts, etc (Anthony Zahler) 7. Re: Re: belts, etc (Ray) 8. Charlie V (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 9. Belt sizes (promotion) (Dugy) 10. RE: myth or truth? no sex while in training (Rick Clark) 11. Re: Martial arts Team found (Junkredmailbox@cs.com) 12. RE: Belt sizes (promotion) (Rick Clark) 13. RE: myth or truth? no sex while in training (Jye nigma) 14. RE: myth or truth? no sex while in training (Rick Clark) 15. Re: Belt sizes (promotion) (Vernon Noble) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:10:30 -0400 From: sidtkd@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a couple of thoughts here. On belts...I've not only seen white, yellow, gold, orange, light green and dark green, blue, purple, brown, red, red/black, camouflage, black with white stripe but also tan, pink, silver, and a "DISNEY" belt with comic stip characters! What exactly did we expect when the martial arts grew from the 1960's?  This is America and we market everything. Yet another peeve I have is when tae kwon do schools advertize under the banner of KARATE. This, plus lack of historical perspectives in our dojangs, lack of meditation yadayada have not only watered done, but changed a whole lot of the original concepts. Still there are many out there that stick to their guns. Let's see what happens in another 5 years! Sid ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:13:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF UNIFORM TRIM Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Luther Veuleman wrote: During roundtable discussion, we got into the width of the do balk trim. We are an ITF school and I thought the width of the trim was to be 3 centimeters. I've been told that the trim can vary from school to school. The collar trim can be thinner for an instructor, thicker for a Kwan Jang Nim (individual school owner). I've heard differing answers from 7/8" to 1" to 1-1/4" to 2" wide. What is the proper width of the trim on the jacket of the ITF do balk around the bottom below the belt? Down the arms? Down the side of the pant leg? Is there a difference in the width of the trim around the collar? Is the width of the collar trim different from an instructor verses a Kwan Jang Nim? Also- do you use different colors for Juniors, verses adult instructors, like a green, blue or red collar? Do you use the poom collar? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 13:07:11 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Change is inevitable. You change with the changing world or risk getting left behind. Strive to make changes for the better. In order to further the spread of TaeKwonDo, its tenets and benefits, many people have tried to make it available/marketable to the general public. Military style drilling, long, intense, exhaustive workout routines are not desirable or practical for most people, especially children. Disrespect, self-centeredness, short attention spans and desire for instant gratification are some of the bad changes that have taken hold (coincidentally along with video games). TaeKwonDo teaches the general public (especially kids) to have courtesy, integrity, perseverence, self control and an indomitable spirit. If it is a watered down version of the original teachings, so be it. It's still better than the alternatives (TV & video games). Those who truly WANT to learn the MARTIAL ART, will practice their meditation as well as the history of their chosen art. The journey to black belt and beyond is an individual quest. It's different for everyone. As far as the self-defense skills, you get out of it what you put into it. Myself, I want some more intense, old school teaching to take me to the next level. Victor For myself, I would love to participate in the old fashioned intense training sessions that my Grandmaster endurred. sidtkd@aol.com 06/22/2007 07:10 To AM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc lartsresource.net Just a couple of thoughts here. On belts...I've not only seen white, yellow, gold, orange, light green and dark green, blue, purple, brown, red, red/black, camouflage, black with white stripe but also tan, pink, silver, and a "DISNEY" belt with comic stip characters! What exactly did we expect when the martial arts grew from the 1960's?  This is America and we market everything. Yet another peeve I have is when tae kwon do schools advertize under the banner of KARATE. This, plus lack of historical perspectives in our dojangs, lack of meditation yadayada have not only watered done, but changed a whole lot of the original concepts. Still there are many out there that stick to their guns. Let's see what happens in another 5 years! Sid ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:03:32 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Sid, From: sidtkd@aol.com [mailto:sidtkd@aol.com] Yet another peeve I have is when tae kwon do schools advertize under the banner of KARATE. This, plus lack of historical perspectives in our dojangs, lack of meditation yadayada have not only watered done, but changed a whole lot of the original concepts. Still there are many out there that stick to their guns. Let's see what happens in another 5 years! Sid Going back to the early days of TKD here in the US, it was not uncommon to see schools advertised as Korean Karate. In fact you could argue that is a more correct name for the early Kwan style TKD we had. Yes there has been a lot of change in TKD and it has moved away from the historical root of Japanese and Okinawan karate. But at the core TKD is simply a variation of Okinawan and Japanese karate. The style of TKD I was taught (Chung Do Kwan) was nothing more than a Korean version of Shotokan, and the forms were adapted slightly different that what you would see in the JKA version of Shotokan. BUT - you could argue that what was taught in the Chung Do Kwan may have been a version closer to what Funakoshi taught before the JKA made the changes it made. As to being watered down I have no argument with you on this. The lack of self-defense training, sparring from a seated position, throwing techniques etc. are definitely something that is now lacking. But I know from my training that much of this was dropped in the 70's. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:02:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] myth or truth? no sex while in training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok I have a serious question. I'm sure everyone has heard it if you've participated in competitions before: No sex before a fight or while in training. Is this a real thing or just a myth? Does it really make you weak and if so why? is there factual evidence? Jye --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:38:52 -0400 From: "Anthony Zahler" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've studied in two states, California and Maryland, and seen many different variation of belt colors and rank. No mater what the color, you still have to go from 10th gup to 1st gup, then Black belt. It is my humble opinion that the Association or Federation you belong to should set the guidelines. We seem to strive so much for individuality, that we lose the idea of cohesiveness (Unity) of a group. I still remember the best lesson I ever had in relation to belts and rank. It went something like this... Once you have done something 100 times, your body will recognize it. Once you have done it 1000 times your body will be able to do it. Once you have done it 10,000 times you will be good at it. Once you have done it 100,000 times you won't care about your rank or your belt any longer. Tony On 6/22/07, sidtkd@aol.com wrote: > > Just a couple of thoughts here. On belts...I've not only seen white, > yellow, > gold, orange, light green and dark green, blue, purple, brown, red, > red/black, > camouflage, black with white stripe but also tan, pink, silver, and a > "DISNEY" > belt with comic stip characters! What exactly did we expect when the > martial > arts grew from the 1960's? This is America and we market everything. Yet > another peeve I have is when tae kwon do schools advertize under the > banner of > KARATE. This, plus lack of historical perspectives in our dojangs, lack of > meditation yadayada have not only watered done, but changed a whole lot of > the > original concepts. Still there are many out there that stick to their > guns. > Let's see what happens in another 5 years! > > Sid > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from > AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... No mater what the color, you still have to go from 10th gup to > 1st gup, then Black belt. Or in the Korean arts, from 9th gup to 1st gup. And then from 1st dan to 9th dan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:29:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Charlie V Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charlie Are you going to the Battle Cage 360 July 14th at the Harrahs (Louisiana Downs). I have two on the card. Check out www.ISCFMMA.com and www.battlecage360.com JC _________________________________________________________________ Picture this – share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Dugy" To: Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:05:59 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I recently passed my red belt and for the 3rd belt in a row, the instructor has given me a belt that is too small. It's a double wrap and by the time I finish tying it, it looks like a gals pigtails. At brown belt level there was barely enough room to put all 7 stripes and now though there are only 6 stripes at this belt, I feel rediculous wearing this belt size. You all were commenting on belts, and how at times it's included in the exam fee, which mine is, but I am the only one or possible 2nd one that is at this level. I don't know if my instructor buys his belts one at a time or not, but this being the 3rd time he's given me a belt not of my size is beginning to tick me off. I know I can go out there and buy a red belt my size if I look hard enough, but shouldn't the instructor get the right size? He even asked me what size he should get for me. Ok, so the instructor has expenses, Last year he added $2 per hour for his training comes to $96/month for a 2 day /week training and we sign up for a 6 month or 1 year course., Then we pay the annual fee to belong to the "art". Then we pay $45 for the fee to test, then we're buying gear, and so on.. Another student there has a single wrap and his belt drags below his knees.. Of course, his favorite student has a perfectly sized belt. Anywway, I would think with him knowing the money will be coming in for that period of time, that he would at least try to please his students by getting the right size for them. Comments ? DougM Have a nice day, unless you already have other plans. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:10:14 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] myth or truth? no sex while in training To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye, From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Ok I have a serious question. I'm sure everyone has heard it if you've participated in competitions before: No sex before a fight or while in training. Is this a real thing or just a myth? Does it really make you weak and if so why? is there factual evidence? Jye I am sure there are several sources for this bit of lore. I'll not go into the Christian reasons but I think it would have come out of the Victorian era, or even before. But as this is a forum that deals with TKD which has it's basis in the Orient. . . . . this belief may have come from some of the more esoteric Taoist sexual practices. I am sure a quick web search will give you some answers on the practices - but I don't think I am up to posting "G" rated post. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Junkredmailbox@cs.com Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:35:32 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial arts Team found Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is sad that the Camo belt out ranks the martial arts team that was found dead. Not even one commit in a week :( --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:35:25 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Doug, From: Dugy [mailto:dugy01@msn.com] Anywway, I would think with him knowing the money will be coming in for that period of time, that he would at least try to please his students by getting the right size for them. Comments ? DougM Why not ask him in a nice way? If you don't get a response that meets your expectations you have 2 choices followed by two more: 1) keep the belt given 2) buy a new belt Then you have 1) find a new club after your contract is expired 2) stay at that club Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:42:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] myth or truth? no sex while in training To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The web is not really the place to learn about something, as anyone can whip up a site and put anything up. But the replies don't have to go into detail about "the act" I'm just asking, if it's true, and now that you replied, the origins of such a thing interests me. I posed the question because outside of martial arts from asia...I still hear boxers say no push push while training, and trainers say it. Also, I heard one boxer stays by himself away from his wife or girlfriend or whatever when he's about to fight. Jye Rick Clark wrote: I am sure there are several sources for this bit of lore. I'll not go into the Christian reasons but I think it would have come out of the Victorian era, or even before. But as this is a forum that deals with TKD which has it's basis in the Orient. . . . . this belief may have come from some of the more esoteric Taoist sexual practices. I am sure a quick web search will give you some answers on the practices - but I don't think I am up to posting "G" rated post. Rick Clark _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:20:51 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] myth or truth? no sex while in training To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye, >From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] >The web is not really the place to learn about something, as anyone can whip up a >site and put anything up. But the replies don't have to go into detail about "the act" I'm >just asking, if it's true, and now that you replied, the origins of such a thing interests >me. I posed the question because outside of martial arts from asia...I still hear boxers >say no push push while training, and trainers say it. Also, I heard one boxer stays by >himself away from his wife or girlfriend or whatever when he's about to fight. > > Jye Ok then check out a book on the esoteric Taoist arts - not really a subject I am comfortable in posting about because of two main reasons. 1) the lack of knowledge on my part and 2) it could get past PG rather quick. On the western point of view I think a lot of it may go to the Victorian era or the perception that sex is for procreation and not recreational. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:09:40 -0400 From: Vernon Noble To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dugy wrote: > Hello, > > I recently passed my red belt and for the 3rd belt in a row, the instructor > has given me a belt that is too small. It's a double wrap and by the time I > finish tying it, it looks like a gals pigtails. At brown belt level there was > barely enough room to put all 7 stripes and now though there are only 6 > stripes at this belt, I feel rediculous wearing this belt size. > > You all were commenting on belts, and how at times it's included in the exam > fee, which mine is, but I am the only one or possible 2nd one that is at this > level. I don't know if my instructor buys his belts one at a time or not, but > this being the 3rd time he's given me a belt not of my size is beginning to > tick me off. > > I know I can go out there and buy a red belt my size if I look hard enough, > but shouldn't the instructor get the right size? He even asked me what size he > should get for me. > > Ok, so the instructor has expenses, Last year he added $2 per hour for his > training comes to $96/month for a 2 day /week training and we sign up for a 6 > month or 1 year course., Then we pay the annual fee to belong to the "art". > Then we pay $45 for the fee to test, then we're buying gear, and so on.. > Another student there has a single wrap and his belt drags below his knees.. > Of course, his favorite student has a perfectly sized belt. > > Anywway, I would think with him knowing the money will be coming in for that > period of time, that he would at least try to please his students by getting > the right size for them. > > Comments ? > > DougM > Have a nice day, unless you already have other plans. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > Dear Doug, This is an issue to discuss (with respect) with your instructor. It is in his interest to have everyone have the correct size belt. I do not know the situation at your school, but maybe you could become the student who contributes a little extra bit of time, and volunteer to help make the order to purchase belts for upcoming gup tests. Belts seem to be a big issue, but what is important is the quality of instruction received. If your instructor is helping you to be a better person, then you need to help him in these matters if you are one of his senior students. The nice day comment was unnecessary. Good luck, V. Noble PS. That's a lot of stripes for a belt. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest