Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:58:31 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #186 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=EARN_MONEY,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Belt sizes (promotion) (daomyer@aol.com) 2. Re: belts, etc (J R Hilland) 3. Re: Myth or truth... (tim walker) 4. belt sizes / Belt stripes (Dugy) 5. RE: Re: belts, etc (Mark Seidel) 6. Karate (was belts, etc) (Thomas Gordon) 7. Re: Karate (was belts, etc) (Michael Munyon) 8. Re: Karate (was belts, etc) (Ray) 9. New gate in Little Rock (The_Dojang) 10. RE: Karate (was belts, etc) (Thomas Gordon) 11. RE: Karate (was belts, etc) (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:39:49 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Dugy, I dont run or have a school but just for fun ran some #s. Around where I live rent is about 8k a month. If a school had 80 students paying $96 it would make $7680.00 per month. Clearly why after school programs need to exist. In a slower market maybe its 4-5K. 3k a month for bills, EQ maintenence (or credit bills to pay off against purchase) plus a living is tight. I know its frustrating but this is not a money machine. The best advice is clearly as Master Noble pointed out. Live the new rank you have and find ways to make your school better. As you have discovered, a small issue which your teacher may not be aware of could be clouding some students mind and hindering their progress. What great opportunity to truly delve in to your new rank and improve yourself and your school. Yours in training, Dave O. p.s. my belt was tight so I decided to lose some weight...not sure if it was a message from my teacher but man I feel better.  :) -----Original Message----- From: Vernon Noble To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:09 am Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) Dugy wrote:  > Hello,  >  > I recently passed my red belt and for the 3rd belt in a row, the instructor  > has given me a belt that is too small. It's a double wrap and by the time I  > finish tying it, it looks like a gals pigtails. At brown belt level there was  > barely enough room to put all 7 stripes and now though there are only 6  > stripes at this belt, I feel rediculous wearing this belt size.  >  > You all were commenting on belts, and how at times it's included in the exam  > fee, which mine is, but I am the only one or possible 2nd one that is at this  > level. I don't know if my instructor buys his belts one at a time or not, but  > this being the 3rd time he's given me a belt not of my size is beginning to  > tick me off.  >  > I know I can go out there and buy a red belt my size if I look hard enough,  > but shouldn't the instructor get the right size? He even asked me what size he  > should get for me.  >  > Ok, so the instructor has expenses, Last year he added $2 per hour for his  > training comes to $96/month for a 2 day /week training and we sign up for a 6  > month or 1 year course., Then we pay the annual fee to belong to the "art".  > Then we pay $45 for the fee to test, then we're buying gear, and so on..  > Another student there has a single wrap and his belt drags below his knees..  > Of course, his favorite student has a perfectly sized belt.  >  > Anywway, I would think with him knowing the money will be coming in for that  > period of time, that he would at least try to please his students by getting  > the right size for them.  >  > Comments ?  >  > DougM  > Have a nice day, unless you already have other plans.  > _______________________________________________  > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members  > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net  > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource  > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net  >  > Dear Doug,      This is an issue to discuss (with respect) with your instructor. It is in his interest to have everyone have the correct size belt. I do not know the situation at your school, but maybe you could become the student who contributes a little extra bit of time, and volunteer to help make the order to purchase belts for upcoming gup tests.    Belts seem to be a big issue, but what is important is the quality of instruction received. If your instructor is helping you to be a better person, then you need to help him in these matters if you are one of his senior students.    The nice day comment was unnecessary.        Good luck,      V. Noble    PS. That's a lot of stripes for a belt.  _______________________________________________  The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members  The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net  Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource  Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net  ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:58:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick, that wasn't just true for TKD. It was true for all the KMA. My first teacher remembered the Japanese occupation well and refused to use the advertisement of Korean Karate at the dojang in Houston despite the prodding of the rest of the Korean community. Yet at the same time he would get VERY frustrated when someone would call the dojang and ask what today's lunch special was! :) Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:04:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Myth or truth... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> The sex is good cardio, but the cuddling after is what wears me out. timo "Braithre Thar Gach Ni" --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Dugy" To: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:37:55 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] belt sizes / Belt stripes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, Ray, thanks for the input... This is directed to V Noble, (and thanks also, I will ask my instructor if he needs assistance).. thanks for your reponse, but In your response to me you added a P.S. at the botom of your answer and yousaid: "PS. That's a lot of stripes for a belt." In the combat Hapkido class I am taking, our usual amount of stripes is 6 or 7 per belt. .some belts levels are as low as 5 but mostly 6 or 7. Just out of curiosity....since I am unaware of the usual # of stripes, what is typical? For example, TKD, Aikido, etc.. Regards, Doug M ----------------------------------- Message: 15 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:09:40 -0400 From: Vernon Noble To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Dear Doug, This is an issue to discuss (with respect) with your instructor. It is in his interest to have everyone have the correct size belt. I do not know the situation at your school, but maybe you could become the student who contributes a little extra bit of time, and volunteer to help make the order to purchase belts for upcoming gup tests. Belts seem to be a big issue, but what is important is the quality of instruction received. If your instructor is helping you to be a better person, then you need to help him in these matters if you are one of his senior students. The nice day comment was unnecessary. Good luck, V. Noble PS. That's a lot of stripes for a belt. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:28:45 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps the best thing I have read on dd. Master Mark Seidel The Midtown Academy Martial Arts School Special Needs and Exceptional Child Specialist -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Zahler [mailto:tzahler@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 5:39 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: belts, etc I've studied in two states, California and Maryland, and seen many different variation of belt colors and rank. No mater what the color, you still have to go from 10th gup to 1st gup, then Black belt. It is my humble opinion that the Association or Federation you belong to should set the guidelines. We seem to strive so much for individuality, that we lose the idea of cohesiveness (Unity) of a group. I still remember the best lesson I ever had in relation to belts and rank. It went something like this... Once you have done something 100 times, your body will recognize it. Once you have done it 1000 times your body will be able to do it. Once you have done it 10,000 times you will be good at it. Once you have done it 100,000 times you won't care about your rank or your belt any longer. Tony On 6/22/07, sidtkd@aol.com wrote: > > Just a couple of thoughts here. On belts...I've not only seen white, > yellow, > gold, orange, light green and dark green, blue, purple, brown, red, > red/black, > camouflage, black with white stripe but also tan, pink, silver, and a > "DISNEY" > belt with comic stip characters! What exactly did we expect when the > martial > arts grew from the 1960's? This is America and we market everything. Yet > another peeve I have is when tae kwon do schools advertize under the > banner of > KARATE. This, plus lack of historical perspectives in our dojangs, lack of > meditation yadayada have not only watered done, but changed a whole lot of > the > original concepts. Still there are many out there that stick to their > guns. > Let's see what happens in another 5 years! > > Sid > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from > AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 15:44:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Karate (was belts, etc) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was told one of the reasons Taekwondo schools used Karate was because it was cheaper and easier to acquire. A buddy of mine said he was quoted about $400 per letter to get a lighted sign. Heck, save 50% by using Karate instead of Taekwondo. LOL! We used 4' sheets of Styrofoam board and cut two letters out of each 4x8 sheet. Then we painted the letters red, glued them to the wall, and outlined them in black paint. Total cost of our 5'x80' sign was about $500. www.gordonmartialarts.com/picture/2006/picture101906remodel.htm Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Michael Munyon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Karate (was belts, etc) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:53:47 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Gordon, Hello sir.  I must say that I've been to your school a few times and you've got a great school.  I've also seen your school sign and it looks great.  It was very smart how you used the styrofoam and paint.  Defintely a self made Bob Vila. Back to the KARATE sign.  I was told as well that many people out there don't know what TaeKwon-Do is, but everyone has heard of Karate.  So, school owners may use key words that the "Joe Blow" off the street might know already.  Depending on your audiance, TKD is Korean Karate. Very Respecfully, Michael Munyon On Sat Jun 23 15:44 , 'Thomas Gordon' sent: I was told one of the reasons Taekwondo schools used Karate was because it was cheaper and easier to acquire. A buddy of mine said he was quoted about $400 per letter to get a lighted sign. Heck, save 50% by using Karate instead of Taekwondo. LOL! We used 4' sheets of Styrofoam board and cut two letters out of each 4x8 sheet. Then we painted the letters red, glued them to the wall, and outlined them in black paint. Total cost of our 5'x80' sign was about $500. www.gordonmartialarts.com/picture/2006/picture101906remodel.htm Thomas Gordon Florida _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Karate (was belts, etc) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:46:42 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I was told one of the reasons Taekwondo schools used Karate was because it > was cheaper and easier to acquire. About 25 years ago a Korean taekwondo instructor friend was opening up his first real dojang. Before that he had leased time from another dojang and then had a tiny little place that was about the size of two bowling lanes. He would never let anyone call what he taught "Karate". It was Taekwondo, not Karate! Not the same! Not related. Far superior. Spit! (as he would frequently do when discussing anything related to the Japanese) Years later, as his dojang and number of children grew, he moved into a very nice new location for his dojang. On the side of the building he had painted a very larage KARATE... with a smaller Taekwondo under it. They are not the same, I agree, but when you want to get people in the door you do what you must. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:49:27 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New gate in Little Rock Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net American Taekwondo Association Presents Gate to Little Rock By Jamie Walden 6/22/2007 The American Taekwondo Association presented the H.U. Lee International Gate & Garden to the city of Little Rock on Friday morning, commemorating the late founder of the ATA, Haeng Ung Lee. The $1.4 million edifice, located on the east side of the Statehouse Convention Center, is the only true South Korean gate and garden in the United States. The 80-ton gate, made of Douglas fir wood, was hand-crafted in South Korea, then shipped to the U.S. to be assembled and painted. The intent of the structure is to salute martial arts, to serve as a symbol of friendship between South Korea and America, and to honor Eternal Grand Master H.U. Lee. Lee's widow, Sun C. Lee, said, "I'm overwhelmed. I'm so happy it's built," adding, "I think the Eternal Grand Master helped me to build it. He gave me the spirit to build this." The ceremony included the Korean tradition of giving a Korean name to a person of honor. Suh Jin Sup, chairman of the ROK-US Alliance Friendship Society and adviser to the ATA, is also the official name-maker of honorary Korean names for Americans. After Gov. Mike Beebe's speech, Jin Sup bestowed upon Beebe the first name "Bo Sung," meaning "precious star" and the last name "Baek," meaning "white or pure." --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Karate (was belts, etc) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:14:12 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Munyon, Didn't know you were on this list. Welcome! Thanks for the kind words about our school. It's been a lot of work but we've remodeled again since you were there last. *sigh* Oddly enough, we seriously considered NOT using Taekwondo because it had been cheapened by the other schools. Seems like most schools claiming to teach Taekwondo is really more of a dance studio. Look forward to your return from across the pond. Stay safe and God bless. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Karate (was belts, etc) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:14:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry, Funny story! People do what they must to survive. It's bad when "real deal" martial art instructor refuses to make a few small adjustments in their approach to martial arts. Those guys typically don't make it or find other ways to supplement their income. For 99% of the people that get the courage to walk through the door of a martial art school, what really matters is that good martial arts is being delivered. For those "can't get enough" lifelong martial artists, more specifics is needed. Probably most the people on this list falls in that 1% category (which I totally guessed at the percentage). Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest