Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:14:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #193 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Living Reed (Anthony Zahler) 2. Grand Junction Colorado Martial Arts Camp August (Ron Balicki) 3. 2 bronze medals (The_Dojang) 4. RE: Turnverein, Assimilation (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 5. Re: Belt sizes (promotion) (Jye nigma) 6. Re: The Living Reed (Ray) 7. Hwang Kee teaching Japanese Karate (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. Foot strengthening (JENNIFER A LAWRENCE) 9. RE: Foot strengthening (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:15:10 -0400 From: "Anthony Zahler" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The Living Reed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You can get a copy on Amazon *ASIN:* B000J1X4JY On 6/26/07, Curt McCauley wrote: > > There is a great book written by Pearl S Buck around 1963. The title is > "the > Living Reed" It takes place from about 1880 to just before the end of the > 2nd > world war. It gives a good over view of daily life, the Korean society > before "colonization" by the Japanese. It is fiction, but Ms. Buck, I > believe > was born in China and spent a great deal of her life in and around > Asia. The > book is an incredible read. > > During the "Occupation" by Japan, a lot of the Korean men fled to places > like > China, Manchuria, and even Canada. But they would sneak back into Korea > and > try to make a strike against the Japanese and then leave as quickley as > possible. (Any one of the 5 Kwan instructors could have been involved in > this > type of life.) The Living Reed is about one of these people, his family, > and > people during a 50 year period. > > I cannot find an ISBN#, but it was published by the John Day Company of > New > York. > > Respectfully submitted > > > Curt McCauley > Chief Instructor > Channel Town Soo Bahk Do > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Ron Balicki" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:04:54 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grand Junction Colorado Martial Arts Camp August Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, Just wanted to invite everyone on the digest to our Martial art Training camp that we are having in Grandjunction, CO. The date of the camp is August 24th to the 27th. The seminar will feature: Willie Laureano, Michael O'Laskey and myself Ron Balicki. We will have classes in: Capoeria, Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Maphilindo Silat Filipino Kali Lameco Escrima Thai Boxing Shoot Wrestling and Mixed Martial Arts If you can attend that would be great. If you could let people know about it that would be great also. Checkout my webpage for more details www.ronbalicki.com Also, Troy Miller (High Desert MartialArts Academy) Will be holding a weapons fighting tournament Saturday the 25th of August after camp ends for the day. You can write to troy at: troym@frontier.net Thanks Ron Balicki Martial Arts Research Systems _________________________________________________________________ Picture this – share your photos and you could win big! http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:52:46 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 2 bronze medals Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 2 Bronze Medals to be Awarded in Taekwondo Competition at Olympic Games The number of bronze medals to be awarded in the taekwondo competition at the Olympic Games will be expanded to two starting with the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games. In a recent letter to the World Taekwondo Federation, the International Olympic Committee said it accepted the WTF request for two bronze medals in the taekwondo competition at the Olympic Games. "I am pleased to inform you that the IOC has decided to agree to your request and to award two bronze medals for the sport of taekwondo at the Olympic Games, beginning at the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games," said Mr. Kelly Fairweather, sports director of the IOC, in his letter to WTF President Chungwon Choue. The WTF, the world's sole taekwondo governing body recognized by the IOC in 1980, sent a letter to the IOC on April 10, 2007, asking the IOC to expand the number of bronze medals to be awarded in the taekwondo competition at the Olympic Games to two per weight category. The WTF has a worldwide membership of 184 countries. Since the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games, the WTF has conducted a single elimination tournament system with double repechage to determine one third-placed winner. "Nevertheless, as with the other combat sports in the Olympic program, an additional fight to determine a single bronze medalist could seriously undermine the athletes' health and all this would be a burden to the Organizing Committees of the Olympic Games," said the WTF letter. An inspired WTF sees that the IOC's decision would greatly contribute to the further development of taekwondo. The WTF regards the decision as due recognition by the international sports community, including the IOC, of the WTF's reform programs since the latter part of 2004. Accordingly the WTF plans to produce follow-up measures for the Olympic competition methods, including the repechage system. On Feb. 6, 2006, the IOC decided in its Executive Board meeting in Torino, Italy, to increase the number of taekwondo competitors by two male and two female athletes to 128 for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games. The decision came after the WTF's request to the IOC for the increase in the athlete quota for taekwondo competition at the Olympic Games after the establishment of the WTF's fifth continental union, the Oceania Taekwondo Union, in July 2005. The WTF is also scheduled to receive more TV rights revenues from the IOC starting from the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, as the General Assembly of the Association of Summer Olympic International Federations (ASOIF) in Beijing on April 24, 2007, approved the Council proposal to promote the WTF from Group E to Group D for its contribution to the overall Games program. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:05:45 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Turnverein, Assimilation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joe Cheavens asked: Is there a strong connection between Turnverein and beer halls and bowling alleys? I work next door to Sholtz Garten, a beer garden founded by a German immigrant in 1866. Sholtz Garten also has a Sängerrunde and bowling alley attached. Are these just generic German cultural assets that tend to be linked? My reply: Yep, I would say so. The Turnverein was a physical education organization (not sport) that used gymnastics (both heavy and later light) as a means to physical health. Bowling was a natural recreational addition for the Germans, and beer of course. Americans at the time were greatly upset about the Demon Rum, and the YMCA was actually set up in part to get rid of the evil German influence of beer in connection to sports. I think the Germans won in the long run. :) Joe also wrote: The Japanese assimilation policy (i.e. forcing Koreans to adopt Japanese names, use the Japanese language in public, have a Shinto shrine in each home, etc) was only in effect from 1939 until 1945. Even then, Korean language newspapers continued to publish, albeit heavily censored, throughout the remainder of the Colonial Period. My reply: Gotta take issue with you on this one. While the Japanese may have formalized those rules in 1939, they were certainly establishing a situation that forced Koreans to assimilate if they wanted to succeed, while at the same time making it difficult to do so. Compare it to Jim Crow in the US. Some have argued that racism dates from its legalization in the Jim Crow legislation following the Civil War, but certainly there was de facto racism in the South long before, since most African-Americans in the South were enslaved and could be raped, tortured, or burned alive with impunity. Likewise under Japanese control, the Japanese put money into Japanese schools and other institutions, not into Korean institutions. Classes were in Japanese, students were forced to worship at Shinto shrines, and later on it became a crime to speak in Korean while at school. Control the government's money, and you can make a lot of cultural changes, even without making it a law. If you only hire those who speak Japanese or who dress as Japanese and take Japanese names, you can get a lot of people to change. If you classify those activities (such as t'aekkyeon) that might strengthen anti-Japanese resistance movements as terrorist or criminal activities, you can force people to choose other ways of life. Korean rice was confiscated annually to send to Japan. By 1937, Korea was sending seven times as much rice to Japan as it had in 1912, and as a result the Korean population suffered from malnutrition. This process was accelerated during WW II, but it was certainly in place before that. The Japanese seized Korean lands and handed it over to Japanese colonists. Residents in Korea could not vote in Japanese elections. Public monuments were altered to glorify Japanese rule. Newspapers and journals were routinely shut down (so much so that even today Korean newspapers and journals tend to censor themselves to avoid government intervention). Korean histories were edited to eliminate mention of Korean military prowess and to emphasize the nation's debt to Japan. At the same time, they actually tried to exploit the Koreans not assimilate them. In 1911, Koreans who had taken Japanese names were forced to revert back to their Korean names. Even after the assimilation policy was put into place, Koreans were looked down upon. Thousands of Korean women were forced to sexually service the Japanese Army ("comfort women"). Hundreds of thousands of Koreans died as forced labor during the war. Koreans, along with Chinese and others, were used as experimental subjects to test germ warfare, resistance to cold, etc. Did you know that Tokyo doctors vivisected seven US fliers as part of their medical education program during the war? They did the same thing with Koreans and others, performing vivisections so that Japanese medical students could see a heart in action, etc. Moreover, while the formal occupation of Korea dates from 1910 (the year the last Korean Emperor gave the Japanese General Power of Attorney), the Japanese Army never left Korea after the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895, and given the fact that they also assassinated the Empress Myeongseong (aka Queen Min) in 1895, it is clear they were in de facto control of Korea from 1895. I remember reading a diary of the US diplomatic mission to Korea, and how the Emperor managed to escape the palace shortly after this, and came running to the US Mission. We locked the door on him, and he fled to the Russians, who let him in. He obviously wasn't in control of the country, even in the 1890s. Ray wrote in reply to the following post: > .... I believe that is why > Hwang Kee changed the name on his first school from Hwa Soo Do to Tang Soo > Do was so the gerneral public would associate with a term they knew. It had to do with the fact that Lee Won-kuk had popularized the name Tang Soo Do via his Chung Do Kwan. As Hwang Kee states in The History of Moo Duk Kwan, he wanted to ride the popularity that Lee had already created. My comment: One more thing. Hwang framed Hwasudo as a Chinese art, and he also explained that Japanese arts were more popular (largely because of the assimilation of Koreans) among Koreans in the late 1940s. Strange but true! Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:32:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Belt sizes (promotion) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would have left too. I look at it like this. If I'm paying X amount of dollars to learn this art PLUS X-amount of dollars to test, they had better get everything right. I've seen some of the testing fees for some schools and they should be ashamed of themselves. Within the testing fee should be the cost for a belt (you would think) and so if I had to go out and buy one there is a problem. When I spend my money I better get what I'm paying for. It's as simple as having the students be measured when they are going to test...that simple. If they can't get a belt size right then they really don't care. Jye Jonathan Boorstein wrote: When I received a belt that was the wrong size -- a size too large in my case -- I felt slighted, as if I weren't "good enough" to get the right size belt. Worse, when I politely asked for the right size I was first told to just wear it and get used to it. When persistence didn't work, I just refused to wear it at all. That antic upset everyone else. Because everyone else was upset, a new belt was ordered, which didn't make me feel any more welcome. Even beyond that, the next belt also came in the wrong size. Eventually I wound up going over to the martial arts supply company myself and paying for a new belt myself to get the right size. Needless to say, I wound up taking over belt ordering to make sure that didn't happen again to me or anyone else. When it came time for me to decide whether to stay in that school or go, it was on my list of reasons why I shouldn't stay. And while I'm not saying it was the deciding factor, I did leave. JB Vernon Noble wrote: Dugy wrote: > Hello, > > I recently passed my red belt and for the 3rd belt in a row, the instructor > has given me a belt that is too small. It's a double wrap and by the time I > finish tying it, it looks like a gals pigtails. At brown belt level there was > barely enough room to put all 7 stripes and now though there are only 6 > stripes at this belt, I feel rediculous wearing this belt size. > > You all were commenting on belts, and how at times it's included in the exam > fee, which mine is, but I am the only one or possible 2nd one that is at this > level. I don't know if my instructor buys his belts one at a time or not, but > this being the 3rd time he's given me a belt not of my size is beginning to > tick me off. > > I know I can go out there and buy a red belt my size if I look hard enough, > but shouldn't the instructor get the right size? He even asked me what size he > should get for me. > > Ok, so the instructor has expenses, Last year he added $2 per hour for his > training comes to $96/month for a 2 day /week training and we sign up for a 6 > month or 1 year course., Then we pay the annual fee to belong to the "art". > Then we pay $45 for the fee to test, then we're buying gear, and so on.. > Another student there has a single wrap and his belt drags below his knees.. > Of course, his favorite student has a perfectly sized belt. > > Anywway, I would think with him knowing the money will be coming in for that > period of time, that he would at least try to please his students by getting > the right size for them. > > Comments ? > > DougM > Have a nice day, unless you already have other plans. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > Dear Doug, This is an issue to discuss (with respect) with your instructor. It is in his interest to have everyone have the correct size belt. I do not know the situation at your school, but maybe you could become the student who contributes a little extra bit of time, and volunteer to help make the order to purchase belts for upcoming gup tests. Belts seem to be a big issue, but what is important is the quality of instruction received. If your instructor is helping you to be a better person, then you need to help him in these matters if you are one of his senior students. The nice day comment was unnecessary. Good luck, V. Noble PS. That's a lot of stripes for a belt. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The Living Reed To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:19:55 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >There is a great book written by Pearl S Buck around 1963. The title is "the >Living Reed" It takes place from about 1880 to just before the end of the >2nd world war. It gives a good over view of daily life, the Korean society >before "colonization" by the Japanese. It is fiction, but Ms. Buck, I believe >was born in China and spent a great deal of her life in and around asia. >The book is an incredible read. Ms. Buck was born down in West Virginia, near where I was raised and where listmember James now lives and teaches. But at the age of 3 months she was taken to China... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:00:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee teaching Japanese Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray I agree that Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim did teach some aspects of Japanese Karate that he learned from books such as the Pyung Ahn Hyungs, and some others. But He also taught some Chinese techniques learned from Master Yang. However I believe his foundation was Tae Kyun which is Korean. So to say MDK Founder Hwang Kee taught Karate in the early days , although correct is a half truth. I think it would be better said that he taught some techniques that he attopted from the Japanese styles and incorporated them into his MDK School. I do agree however that the MDK and has evolved into more of a Korean based art over the last 60 years. Although some of the early Hyungs are still taught it is obvious that the patterns are simular to the original but the individual techniques are Korean.( ie use of hip, high kicks, line). Also I am not sure the MDK founder used the Tang Soo Do name to capitalize on the popularity of Lee Won Kuks school. I think it was to capitalize of the regcognition of the name Lee Won Kuk used which would be recognized by the Japanese speaking people left after the occupation . After 30 plus years people did not speak or read Korean and did not recognize the name Hwa Soo Do. JC _________________________________________________________________ Don’t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "JENNIFER A LAWRENCE" <5baron55@msn.com> To: Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:43:04 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Foot strengthening Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a question for any list members who can offer helpful suggestions. Recently, I began training in Tae Soo Do, the introductory level of Hwa Rang Do. I have 35 years of previous experience in Okinawan and Chinese styles - and therein lies the problem. Last November, I had surgery on my left foot (osteotomy left hallux) and recently had a similar (but a little more extensive) surgery on my right foot (osteotomy right hallux). In both cases, the first metatarsal was shortened by 1/4 inch, and bone spurs were shaved off of three sides of the bone. On both feet, I had worn away the cartilage between the big toe and the first metatarsal - thus, the surgery was to create a space, so I would no longer have the bone-on-bone contact. (Gosh, I will miss that sensation.) When the doctor opened my right foot, he said his first inclination was to close the foot and tell me there was nothing he could do. Lovely. (I'm not mentioning the broken arches that he has also diagnosed. I guess nature never intended for me to train barefoot on concrete floors.) His diagnosis is that fusing the right big toe to its metatarsal is a given. He simply says that the time line for such a future is 3 to 7 years. The only alternative, he feels, is an artificial joint in the toe, "which will put an end to your martial arts." (Like a fused toe wouldn't?) I believe this man is a great doctor, but I do not want either alternative (fusing the toe or artificial joint). I haven't obtained a second opinion, yet, and I expect that another doctor - coming from the "surgery is mandatory" mindset - would feel the same. This is where I need help from those of you who have been training for many years. Surely, others in the Korean arts have had identical problems, yet found ways to stay in their art. Can any of you pass along any helpful suggestions? Yes, I could train in another style, which allowed supportive footwear. Believe me, over these last couple of weeks, I have done a lot of soul searching. I have come to the stubborn conclusion that I like the people at this dojang, I like the style, and I don't want to change to another. You old-timers know exactly what I mean. I already do Iyengar yoga and love it. So, especially to those of you who train barefoot in the Korean styles, any other helpful suggestions? Thank you, in advance. Hwarang. Mark Lawrence Phoenix Hwa Rang Do Phoenix, Az. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Foot strengthening Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:33:14 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow, that's a tough one...I too have some feet problems...after wrestling, martial arts, jogging like a hamster on a treadmill and carrying heavy packs and other stuff on my back for about 25 years I had to go to the doctor just like you with foot and toe problems..hell Master Whalen watched me tear the cartilage in three of my toes during my 3rd dan test many moons ago in Boston...that put a serious hurt on my budding Barechested River Dancing career.....luckily my problems weren't as bad as youv'e described...sorry to hear that for you...I teach and do HKD so there is plenty of foot pounding and toe and ball of the feet turning....I was x-rayed and mri'd with heel spurs on both feet, and torn cartilage and arthritis in both of my big toes where they hook in to the feet.. one of the annoying habits I have now is when I am barefoot I can bend my big toe on my right foot and it sounds like someone snapping their fingers very loud..and it never stops!! when I practice anything barefoot now my feet feel like I've been beat on the bottom of them with a turkish prison paddle so I can feel your pain...what I've done is get a good pair of martial art shoes and a small arch support for the inside of them and I never practice without them...IF the dojang you are going to now understands the kind of feet problems you have they should gladly let you practice with some martial arts shoes on during class....and if they don't I would tell them to stick it and go somewhere else...my feet and toes still get sore...hell the left one is sore right now as I type...BUT since I started using the shoes during class it's gotten a lot better...now I don't limp along like frankenstein the next morning after HKD classes....my doctor told me I could get the stuff fixed with surgery also...but like you I'm holding out on that one...he also said that when you have feet like mine that I should never walk around barefoot anymore...not even in the house...I got some of those teva style sandals and wear them in the house most of the time....they help...good luck with your feet bro and talk to those HWD guys and let them know how bad your feet are...if they are IMHO decent instructors they will make an exception for you....because it ain't about fashion it's about function...in closing I just want to say that I've done a lot of stupid stuff to my body in martial arts over the years and now I'm just trying to cut it back to only doing dumb things to my body....I'm not getting smarter in my old age, just less stupid...good luck... Michael Tomlinson ps....still looking for some purple martial arts shoes to match my spandex unitard....NOW THAT'S PURE FASHION PIMPS! >From: "JENNIFER A LAWRENCE" <5baron55@msn.com> >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Foot strengthening >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:43:04 -0700 > >I have a question for any list members who can offer helpful suggestions. >Recently, I began training in Tae Soo Do, the introductory level of Hwa >Rang >Do. I have 35 years of previous experience in Okinawan and Chinese styles >- >and therein lies the problem. Last November, I had surgery on my left foot >(osteotomy left hallux) and recently had a similar (but a little more >extensive) surgery on my right foot (osteotomy right hallux). In both >cases, >the first metatarsal was shortened by 1/4 inch, and bone spurs were shaved >off >of three sides of the bone. On both feet, I had worn away the cartilage >between the big toe and the first metatarsal - thus, the surgery was to >create >a space, so I would no longer have the bone-on-bone contact. (Gosh, I will >miss that sensation.) When the doctor opened my right foot, he said his >first >inclination was to close the foot and tell me there was nothing he could >do. >Lovely. (I'm not mentioning the broken arches that he has also diagnosed. >I >guess nature never intended for me to train barefoot on concrete floors.) >His >diagnosis is that fusing the right big toe to its metatarsal is a given. >He >simply says that the time line for such a future is 3 to 7 years. The only >alternative, he feels, is an artificial joint in the toe, "which will put >an >end to your martial arts." (Like a fused toe wouldn't?) I believe this >man >is a great doctor, but I do not want either alternative (fusing the toe or >artificial joint). I haven't obtained a second opinion, yet, and I expect >that another doctor - coming from the "surgery is mandatory" mindset - >would >feel the same. >This is where I need help from those of you who have been training for many >years. Surely, others in the Korean arts have had identical problems, yet >found ways to stay in their art. Can any of you pass along any helpful >suggestions? Yes, I could train in another style, which allowed supportive >footwear. Believe me, over these last couple of weeks, I have done a lot >of >soul searching. I have come to the stubborn conclusion that I like the >people >at this dojang, I like the style, and I don't want to change to another. >You >old-timers know exactly what I mean. I already do Iyengar yoga and love >it. >So, especially to those of you who train barefoot in the Korean styles, any >other helpful suggestions? Thank you, in advance. > >Hwarang. > >Mark Lawrence >Phoenix Hwa Rang Do >Phoenix, Az. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest