Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:20:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #209 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Armendariz and Holmquist Fall Short (The_Dojang) 2. Re: the term "Master" & the DD (Thomas Gordon) 3. Re: San Diego Schools + Best wishes to Melinda (Joel Weissler) 4. The term master (Wayne Watkins) 5. RE: Re: San Diego Schools + Best wishes to Melinda (annaweltman) 6. English Terms (J R Hilland) 7. the term master (Curt McCauley) 8. Re: The term master (Michael Munyon) 9. New Black Belt traditions (TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro) 10. Re: New Black Belt traditions (steven riggs) 11. Moontasri Takes a Silver (The_Dojang) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:18:45 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Armendariz and Holmquist Fall Short Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Armendariz and Holmquist Fall Short in Preliminary Bouts at the 2007 Pan American Games July 15, 2007 Pan Am Games Press Officer Julie Goldsticker (RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL) – Taekwondo action moved into bantam/featherweight action on Sunday at the Riocentro Sports Complex Pavilion Four in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. The United States' Jesus Armendariz (La Porte, Texas) and Danielle Holmquist (Coral Springs, Fla.) both took the mat for Sunday's action, and both endured difficult matches in their first Pan American Games. Armendariz suffered a tough loss in his opening bout of the competition, losing on superiority to Gabriel Sagastume of Guatemala in the second round of their preliminary contest. Sagastume landed two offensive kicks and two defensive kicks in the opening round of action to take a 4-0 lead into the second. He added another three points to his lead in the second round, causing the fight to be stopped due to his seven-point lead. Holmquist faced off with Canada's Shannon Condie in quarterfinal competition, and fell short in her opening bout as well. Condie took a 1-0 lead after one round, scoring on an offensive kick. A strong second round pushed Condie to a 4-0 lead after the second. The third round told a similar tale, with Condie scoring one more kick on her way to a 5-0 decision in the bout, eliminating Holmquist from the tournament. Light/welterweights James Moontasri (Colorado Springs, Colo.) and Jade Lopez (Union City, Calif.) will compete for their first Pan American Games titles on Monday at the Riocentro Sports complex. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:52:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] the term "Master" & the DD From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Advertising rank is such a slippery subject. If a person advertises too much, they're a braggart. If they don't promote themselves enough, a potential student/customer may not ever consider visiting their school. To me, the funniest thing is when people introduce themselves as "master so-n-so." Mymy, that’s a peculiar first name. LOL! An informal setting is nice (and expected) while in the company of my peers. However, when a senior (especially much senior) person is around, proper etiquette should be extended - at least to that person. And, when I hear grandmaster X call grandmaster Y by their first name, it doesn't mean its okay for me to address them that way. With 2200 people on this list with various ages and ranks, I'd rather play safe and call people by their last name and proper title or nothing at all. Thank you for the discussion. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 23:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Joel Weissler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: San Diego Schools + Best wishes to Melinda Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry for the late reply, lately I catchup on reading the list much less frequently than I like. San Diego County is a big place. There are several excellent Korean Style Hapkido Instructors. In Southbay Tiger Hong has a separate HKD program from his main TKD program. In North County Coastal there is Moo Young Kang (has his own school and teaches for DEA and FBI agents at their ofifce location) and very recently down from Orange County Kwang Sik Myung of the World Hapkido Federation. Matt Smith a 5th Dan under Jin H. Kim has a good combined TKD/HKD program Inland there are a number of good instructers as well. If you need an introduction, contact me off list by direct email -- we can then speak by phone. Melinda -- I wish you the best for a quick and a full recovery, you are in our prayers. In each of the handful of times we've had contact with each other you have been a pleasure to speak with and do business with. I will try to tag up with you about your business sale later this week. Perhaps I can help find you a buyer. If you have already found a strong potential buyer and need some help as to tax planning in connection with the sale or a review of the legal paperwork - please feel free to contact me. Tax planning and Business sales are significant parts of my law practice. You may want someone local in your area, if you do I can probably find a good referal for you in your area, then can then keep an extra eye on things for you if you would like to make sure things are done correctly. Again, best wishes for complete healing and recovery. Joel S. Weissler --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:29:50 -0500 From: "Wayne Watkins" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] The term master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Two quotes from my instructor Mr. JR West 1. "We are all beginners; some of us have just been beginners longer than others." 2. "I do not consider myself a master of anything" In my humble opinion (that and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds) true masters and grandmasters do not really care about titles. They care about the art and their students. My opinion of an instructor is not based on their rank or their skills on the mat. My opinion is based on how good their students perform on and off the mat. We all know great technicians who have not learned how to convey their knowledge to their students. In our ranking system the title instructor comes before master. If a person is not a good instructor, can they ever be considered a master? All knowledge is meant to be passed on. There are no "secrets" in martial arts, there is just knowledge. Again in my humble opinion we should worry more about what people think of our students than what they think about us. Wayne Watkins --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "annaweltman" To: , Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: San Diego Schools + Best wishes to Melinda Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:16:21 +0300 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, I'm looking specifically for Kuk Sool in san diego, If you can suggest anything... Thanks Anna -----Original Message----- From: Joel Weissler [mailto:hapkiman@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 9:21 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: San Diego Schools + Best wishes to Melinda Sorry for the late reply, lately I catchup on reading the list much less frequently than I like. San Diego County is a big place. There are several excellent Korean Style Hapkido Instructors. In Southbay Tiger Hong has a separate HKD program from his main TKD program. In North County Coastal there is Moo Young Kang (has his own school and teaches for DEA and FBI agents at their ofifce location) and very recently down from Orange County Kwang Sik Myung of the World Hapkido Federation. Matt Smith a 5th Dan under Jin H. Kim has a good combined TKD/HKD program Inland there are a number of good instructers as well. If you need an introduction, contact me off list by direct email -- we can then speak by phone. Melinda -- I wish you the best for a quick and a full recovery, you are in our prayers. In each of the handful of times we've had contact with each other you have been a pleasure to speak with and do business with. I will try to tag up with you about your business sale later this week. Perhaps I can help find you a buyer. If you have already found a strong potential buyer and need some help as to tax planning in connection with the sale or a review of the legal paperwork - please feel free to contact me. Tax planning and Business sales are significant parts of my law practice. You may want someone local in your area, if you do I can probably find a good referal for you in your area, then can then keep an extra eye on things for you if you would like to make sure things are done correctly. Again, best wishes for complete healing and recovery. Joel S. Weissler _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:46:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] English Terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James, my old friend, this is one of the best responses I have seen on the DD in a long time! Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:24:26 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] the term master Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello to all, I hope this finds you all in good health and enjoying Summertime. In some arts people are tested for "Master Rank" and/or "Sa Bom", and and bestowed one of these titles by Seniors to the testing candidate. I also have never felt like I have "Mastered" the art that I study. I try never to address a Senior by his/her first name, especially my Instructor. My instructor and I are both well past Social Security age, and I have yet to call him "Bob" on or off the mat, even though he has given me permission to. To me his first name is "Sir" or "Sa Bom Nim" and will remain that way. My wife, now retired from the art calls him "Uncle Bob" which is a term of respect in the Hawaiian Islands where he spent a majority of his time. Although this forum is somewhat informal, I would submit that the more respect we show one another, the better the quality the forum will retain. respectfully submitted, Curt McCauley Chief Instructor Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Michael Munyon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The term master Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:22:46 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Master Watkins, Very well said.  We all know great technicians who have not learned how to convey their knowledge to their students. In our ranking system the title instructor comes before master. If a person is not a good instructor, can they ever be considered a master? All knowledge is meant to be passed on. There are no "secrets" in martial arts, there is just knowledge. It's nice to see/read the importance of the development of students verses focusing on the instructor/master. Very Respecfully, Michael Munyon On Mon Jul 16 9:29 , 'Wayne Watkins' sent: Two quotes from my instructor Mr. JR West 1. "We are all beginners; some of us have just been beginners longer than others." 2. "I do not consider myself a master of anything" In my humble opinion (that and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds) true masters and grandmasters do not really care about titles. They care about the art and their students. My opinion of an instructor is not based on their rank or their skills on the mat. My opinion is based on how good their students perform on and off the mat. We all know great technicians who have not learned how to convey their knowledge to their students. In our ranking system the title instructor comes before master. If a person is not a good instructor, can they ever be considered a master? All knowledge is meant to be passed on. There are no "secrets" in martial arts, there is just knowledge. Again in my humble opinion we should worry more about what people think of our students than what they think about us. Wayne Watkins _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro" To: Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:00:38 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] New Black Belt traditions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey DDers, I sat on a testing panel for a neighboring Isshinryu dojo this past weekend. It was a very long 2nd Dan test in which the gal going for her Ni Dan ran the test herself to demonstrate her knowledge of the forms, moves, history, etc. BTW: I love my TKD footwork and kicks---imho, vastly superior to the karate stuff. Anyway, at the end of the test, the resident sensei had us give a rave and some constructive criticism to the new 2nd Dan. After we were done, sensei had her remove her belt and hand it to him. He sliced the ends of the belt and banged it on the floor 3 times while folded. He breathed into the opened ends and he handed it back to her, and she gave it to the highest gup rank who in turn handed it down the line to the lowest rank white belt, who presented it back to the new 2nd Dan along with an instructor cert and the 2nd dan cert. The slicing of the belt was to "open" it up to new knowledge, the banging was to drive out bad juju, and the breath was to give it positive energy...a tradition started by the Zen Buddhist monk sister of a 7th dan on the panel. Earlier that same day, I presented my first Junior Black Belt to one of my students. She is 11 and has been training for 4 1/2 years. She did awesome. Part of our school's tradition is to take off the old belt, and I tie it in a big knot with both the student and I tightening the knot by pulling on each end---"sealing in the knowledge of that past rank" I then have them open the new belt with a loud kihap to give some positive energy to the new rank. I take the honor of tying their belt on them for the first time and introduce them by their new rank. After the formal test, everyone in attendance higher in rank throws the student. What do my fellow DDers do for Black belt tests???? Mark Gajdostik TNT Martial Arts 503-640-8400 www.TNTma.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:26:28 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] New Black Belt traditions To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I try to make it a very special and memorable day for the black belt candidate in a number of ways. One of the more unusual ones came from my wife. We have a professional photographer at the event recording it from beginning to end. My wife goes out and buys a nice frame, has it matted with a section in the middle cut out for a certain size photograph which will later be the photo of choice of the new chodan. All the people in attendance can come up and sign this framed document and put a short word of encouragment beside or under their name. In this manner 20 years from now he will remember who was at his or her test and the positive words of encouragment they gave him. Steven Riggs TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro wrote: Hey DDers, I sat on a testing panel for a neighboring Isshinryu dojo this past weekend. It was a very long 2nd Dan test in which the gal going for her Ni Dan ran the test herself to demonstrate her knowledge of the forms, moves, history, etc. BTW: I love my TKD footwork and kicks---imho, vastly superior to the karate stuff. Anyway, at the end of the test, the resident sensei had us give a rave and some constructive criticism to the new 2nd Dan. After we were done, sensei had her remove her belt and hand it to him. He sliced the ends of the belt and banged it on the floor 3 times while folded. He breathed into the opened ends and he handed it back to her, and she gave it to the highest gup rank who in turn handed it down the line to the lowest rank white belt, who presented it back to the new 2nd Dan along with an instructor cert and the 2nd dan cert. The slicing of the belt was to "open" it up to new knowledge, the banging was to drive out bad juju, and the breath was to give it positive energy...a tradition started by the Zen Buddhist monk sister of a 7th dan on the panel. Earlier that same day, I presented my first Junior Black Belt to one of my students. She is 11 and has been training for 4 1/2 years. She did awesome. Part of our school's tradition is to take off the old belt, and I tie it in a big knot with both the student and I tightening the knot by pulling on each end---"sealing in the knowledge of that past rank" I then have them open the new belt with a loud kihap to give some positive energy to the new rank. I take the honor of tying their belt on them for the first time and introduce them by their new rank. After the formal test, everyone in attendance higher in rank throws the student. What do my fellow DDers do for Black belt tests???? Mark Gajdostik TNT Martial Arts 503-640-8400 www.TNTma.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Sensei Steven Riggs Master Instructor American Defensive Arts Master of Philosophy in Martial Science stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:32:10 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Moontasri Takes a Silver Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Team USA's James Moontasri Takes a Silver Medal at the 2007 Pan American Games July 16, 2007 Julie Goldsticker (RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL) – James Moontasri (Colorado Springs, Colo.) grabbed the first hardware for the United States Taekwondo team on Monday, winning a silver medal in men's welterweight action at the 2007 Pan American Games. Moontasri won three matches on his way to the final round before dropping his championship bout to 2000 Olympic champion Angel Matos of Cuba. "This tournament was really special for me," Moontasri said. "I love being in Brazil, the crowd really brought me so much energy. Angel is a great, great fighter, he won the 2000 Olympics and I have so much respect for him. He's an excellent champion." Moontasri opened the competition in a first round contest with Jason Tuitt (Virgin Islands), and controlled the match from the start. He scored his opening kick at the 1:35 mark of the bout and landed two more scoring shots in the first round to take a 3-0 lead after two minutes of action. Moontasri held Tuitt scoreless throughout the fight, going up 5-0 in the first 15 ticks of the second round. He moved out a 7-0 advantage at the :23 mark of the second to take the bout on superiority and advance to the quarterfinals. "James is really a special kid and he believes in himself, he has a lot of self-confidence. The first one wasn't a great match-up for him, but it was great warm up fight and he still dominated him," Coach Kevin Padilla said. With one win under his belt, Moontasri faced off with Carlos Vasquez of Venezuela in quarterfinal competition. The bout was technical from the start with both players looking for an opening, and the first round ended in a scoreless tie. Moontasri finally found the opening he was looking for late in the first minute of the second round, to go up 1-0, a lead, which he would take into the second round. He moved out to a 2-0 lead 20 seconds into the second round, but the pace remained slow. Vasquez pulled to within 2-1, but the referee took a point from the Venezuelan with 15 seconds remaining in the bout. Moontasri went on to win a 2-0 final decision and a berth in the medal rounds. "I actually thought he fought Venezuela just as well as Steven Lopez did at World Championships, if not better. That's because of Dartfish and our scouting, I've watched this Venezuelan for a long time," Padilla said. "I know him really well and James listened to everything that I said, he's very coach-able. The difference is that we were on the same page when we were in the ring. It was a beautiful match, that guy was a good player and James just stepped up to another level in his career." Moontasri battled Chinedum Osuji of Trinidad in his semifinal match-up and once again the bout opened in a slow, technical fashion. It was the American landing the first blow, with Moontasri scoring the lone point of the first round with just under 30 seconds remaining. Moontasri began the second with a successful kick to the head in the opening seconds of the round to move out to a 3-0 lead. He added to his advantage later in the round, and after the referee took a point from both competitors due to inactivity, Moontasri enjoyed a four-point lead as the final two minutes began. Neither athlete landed a scoring kick in the last round and Moontasri went on to win a three to negative one decision and a berth in the championship bout. Moontasri's championship bout featured a match-up with 2000 Olympic gold medalist Matos, and the Cuban struck first. Matos landed a blow to head late in the first round, and added a kick in the final seconds to take a 3-0 lead after one round. Moontasri looked to record his first kick in the second round, but Matos doubled his advantage to take a 6-0 lead after two. He landed the winning kick with 42 seconds remaining in the match to move out to a 7-0 lead and win on superiority. "Obviously the finals didn't go the way I wanted them to," Moontasri said. "But I weighed in 10 pounds light at the weigh-ins, and a silver medal isn't bad for a 19-year-old. This really helps to build my confidence and hopefully next time I can take the gold." Moontasri wasn't the only U.S. athlete competing in Monday's action, Jade Lopez (Union City, Calif.) faced off with Puerto Rico's Asuncion Ocasio in her first bout of the Pan American Games. Ocasio scored first in the bout, landing an defensive kick to take a 1-0 lead after the first round. Lopez tied it at one in the second with an offensive kick, but Ocasio recorded two more points in the second round to take a 3-1 lead into the third. The Puerto Rican moved out to a 4-2 lead in the final round, but after giving Ocasio two warnings, the referee took a point from her to pull the bout to 3-2 with under a minute remaining. Lopez looked to make up her deficit, but fell short and dropped a 3-2 decision. "Jade's a great kid, she's very strong. She worked hard the whole week for me, but she made some errors that we were clear about," Coach Kevin Padilla said. "It was a very close match and I think she can work on managing the ring better. She's a strong, young athlete, she kicks like a man and she just needs to connect to that. The stuff that she did well, she did great. I'm not completely disappointed, but I still hate losing. I think she could have beat that player." Men's and women's middle/heavyweight action will close taekwondo competition at the 2007 Pan American Games on Tuesday. Antony Graf (Miami, Fla.) and Lauren Cahoon (Miami, Fla.) will both look to add to the medal count when they complete in Tuesday's action at the Riocentro Sports Complex. Final Standings Women's/-67 kg 1. Karine Sergerie, Canada 2. Heidy Juarez, Guatemala 3. Asuncion Ocasio, Puerto Rico 4. Nohemar Neal, Venezuela 7. Jade Lopez, USA Men's/-80 kg 1. Angel Matos, Cuba 2. James Moontasri, USA 3. Jose Luis Ramirez, Mexico 4. Chinedum Osuji, Trinidad --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest