Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:47:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #211 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: moo duk kwan (Prof Dr Rizwan Mustafa Zubairi) 2. Doju Ji Han Jae's Surgery (Chosondo@aol.com) 3. RE: moo duk kwan (Frank Clay) 4. (no subject) (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. RE: BB testing - (Randy Mertes) (Dugy) 6. Re: moo duk kwan (Ray) 7. Graf closes with a Silver medal (The_Dojang) 8. Re: (no subject) (steven riggs) 9. Re: moo duk kwan (steven riggs) 10. Re: moo duk kwan (daomyer@aol.com) 11. Re: moo duk kwan (Vernon Noble) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 05:22:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Prof Dr Rizwan Mustafa Zubairi Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] moo duk kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net it is a name of martial arts school in Korea,and later all kwons together under Korea Taekwondo association and they all agree to give name Taekwondo. Regards Rizwan M Zubairi Karachi-Pakistan freddie bishop wrote: Is Moo Duk Kwan a style of martial arts, a place of martial arts practice, or an idealogy? Fred ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:53:18 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Doju Ji Han Jae's Surgery Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just want to use up some band width to inform DDers of Doju Ji's recent surgery. He had a total hip replacement on July 16. at Einstein's Elkins Park Hospital, Elkins Park, PA. I spent quite a bit of time with him yesterday and is happy to report that is in a lot of pain but is doing remarkably well. He is expected to be released by Friday, July 20. Then, he is facing at least 8 weeks of rehabilitation. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster IKMAF www.ikmaf.com ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:01:43 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: moo duk kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fred, The Moo Duk Kwan is really all of them. It's a holistic approach to martial art, a place and so forth. It does refer to something very specific though. ~f. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:08:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fred Moo Duk Kwan some say is a style, Some say it is a school name in which a style is taught. I have been in the Moo Duk Kwan for many years and see both points of view. I tend to refer to it as a school name in which Soo Bahk Do is taught. Although there are Tae Kwon Do, and Tang Soo Do groups out there teaching under the Moo Duk Kwan name. The founder of the Moo Duk Kwan school at the time of his death only recongnized Soo Bahk Do as a Moo Duk Kwan affiliate. All others had history with or lineage to the Moo Duk Kwan but were not following the Kwan Jang Nim and his vision for the Moo Duk Kwan. The term Moo is (Military) Duk (Virtue) and Kwan is (School) This means that the term Moo Duk Kwan literally means SCHOOL where military virtue is taught. I am sure others will give there opinions, however as a current member of the Moo Duk Kwan and 25 years experiance with the Moo Duk Kwan this is my opinion. JC _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dugy" To: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:27:10 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: BB testing - (Randy Mertes) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Randy Mertes, After reading your description of your black belt test I am really puzzled. First of all was this a Hapkido BB Test? Because, I've seen Ninjitsu and Combat Hapkido BB test and neither was a grusome as yours. These tests consisted of your usual belt level tests. having to know your curriculum with some vocal tips at times from the sidelines (spectators). As long as the student seems to know 80% or more of his test, he is granted his next level belt, and in this case, his Black Belt. In Ninjitsu, pulling out the sword in one motion, seemed to be the most difficult part of the test, in Combat Hapkido, the there is no need to memorize the entire belt level, as long as you know the moves. That is, the instructor may go over the moves with the student before he is asked to do the moves. Then he must do them without fault. Your running 3/4K miles, 300 jumping jacks etc.. you must be in excellent health and truly be proud of earning your BB. Though our tests seem much simpler, though we have learned the moves necessary to achieve the BB rank, it seems we are missing out on much of the physical fitness. I only wish I were in my 20's or 30's once again to be able to complete a workout somewhat compatible with yours. I would truly feel I earned my black belt, instead of inching along with just the satisfaction of having learned the moves. Physically I feel though I am not in such excellant shape as you seem to be, but at least I have learned the moves and have earned the BB. Isn't that what the level of Black Belt is? Having learned all the right moves? I guess once I get my Black Belt, I will then be ready to begin learning the art of fighting? Isnt' earning the BB, just the beginning? -------- Message: 8 From: "Randy Mertes" To: Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:37:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: BB testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My last black-belt test (a fairly typical BB test) started at 5:00 p.m. on a Friday night. I went home at 2:30 a.m., Saturday morning (to fight off the muscle cramps). Then it was back to the do jang by noon where the actual test (in front of judges) lasted until 4:00 p.m. The day of the test, I bought an 8-pack of Gatorade and drank every one of them. Over the course of the Friday night we went on three runs, averaging 3-4 miles each. Back at the do jang, we worked on patterns, one-steps, Hapkido, sparring and calisthenics (each BB at our school must be able to do several sets each of 300 jumping jacks, 50 push-ups and 80 crunches). During the Saturday portion of the test, we do all of our patterns in succession and then we do them in reverse. For each belt level, we learn 1 ITF and 1 WTF pattern for a total of 18. We are also responsible for four bong and three juhl bohn patterns. During the sparring portion, we spar several black-belt pairs. When we get bored of that, the BB's line up and we take them on in succession. Much of the testing curriculum is left up to current BB's so it can become very creative (read painful). Randy Mertes II Dahn -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] moo duk kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:33:44 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Is Moo Duk Kwan a style of martial arts, a place of > martial arts practice, or an idealogy? Kwan literally means building or hall, but when used in a martial arts sense it can also refer to a school or clan or family of martial artists who follow the same style or have a smiliar lineage. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:00:22 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Graf closes with a Silver medal Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Antony Graf Closes Taekwondo Action at the Pan Am Games with a Silver Medal Win Julie Goldsticker (RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL) – Antony Graf (Miami, Fla.) was the final U.S. Taekwondo athlete to compete in the 2007 Pan American Games, and he closed the event successfully, winning a silver medal in the middle/heavyweight division. Graf opened the tournament with a first round match-up with Salvador Perez of Mexico, and he held Perez scoreless through the three-round bout. He slowly built up a lead, taking a 1-0 advantage into the second round. Graf recorded two scoring kicks in the second round of action to hold a strong 3-0 advantage as the final two minutes began. Neither player scored in the third round, giving Graf the 3-0 victory and a berth in quarterfinal action. His quarterfinal contest featured a match-up with Kristopher Maitland of Costa Rica, and Graf recorded his second straight win to move on to semifinal action. Graf never trailed in the bout, taking a 2-1 lead after one round. He enjoyed a one-point advantage after the second as well, but the two both doubled their scores in the third round and Graf went on to win a 6-4 decision. In semifinal competition, Graf battled both a raucous crowd and Brazil's Leonardo Santos for a berth in the championship round. After a scoreless first round, Graf struck the first blow, going up 1-0 early in the second. He added two more scoring kicks in the second round to take a 3-0 lead into the final round of action. The crowd looked to push Santos to victory, but Graf prevailed, winning a 3-1 bout on points to advance to the championship bout. Once again, the championship bout featured a battle between Cuba and the United States as Graf took on Cuba's Gerardo Ortiz. Graf recorded the first blow once again, but Ortiz struck back quickly, tying the bout at 1-1 just seconds later. The round ended at 1-1, and Graf looked to overcome his tremendous height disadvantage to the towering Cuban. Neither athlete landed a scoring kick over the final two rounds, but Ortiz fell to the canvas often. After the three rounds ended with the two players locked at 1-1, the match went to sudden death. The activity was slow through the early going of the sudden death period with both competitors looking for an opening. It was Ortiz finding the space he was looking for, scoring the winning kick with 15 seconds remaining. "When it comes down to the wire, and its sudden death with a Cuban and you have to stand on a podium and hear his national anthem play, its hurtful but I've learned from being in the sport so long, you have to have a short memory," Graf said. "You have to brush it off and move on, in my case to Olympic Trials." The United States' Lauren Cahoon (Miami, Fla.) was the second athlete to compete in Tuesday's action, and she won her opening bout over Nancy Urraca of the Dominican Republic. Cahoon moved out to the early advantage, taking a 2-0 lead after one round. Urraca evened the score with a kick to the head, and the match went into the final round tied at two. Cahoon scored the winning kick in the first 30 seconds of the final round and held on to win a 3-2 victory. Cahoon faced off with Brazil's Natalia Silva in quarterfinal competition, and a loud Brazilian crowd provided an interesting environment for the match. Both competitors were warned for inactivity early in the bout, but Silva scored the first kick late in the first round. She doubled her advantage in the second, and despite Cahoon's best effort and high kick output, she couldn't make up the deficit. She dropped a three to negative one decision in the bout. Graf joins light/welterweight James Moontasri (Colorado Springs, Colo.) as a silver medal winner at the 2007 Pan American Games. Final Standings/Men's +80 kg 1. Gerardo Ortiz, Cuba 2. Antony Graf, USA 3. Martin Sio, Argentina 4. Leonard Santos, Brazil Final Standings/Women's +67 kg 1. Rosario Espinoza, Mexico 2. Natalia Silva, Brazil 3. Merna Hechavarria, Cuba 4. Aura Paez, Venezuela --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:31:52 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] (no subject) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would essentially agree with most of what JC said. One of the reasons for some confusion however is that the meanings and usages of the relevant words and titles has changed with time. I agree that the current status is Soo Bahk do taught under or through the Moo Duk Kwan. It was not always that way. When I started in 1973 the name of the style and sign on the door of the Dojang was Moo Duk Kwan. Somewhere in those years from the 70's to the 90's (I don't recall when) the additional phrase Tang Soo Do was added or incorporated in the title to many, many schools. Then a promotion certificate would read John Doe promoted to the rank of chodan Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do. Today my students certificates merely read promoted in the style of Tang Soo Do. It might sound trite but I think in this instance that politics had the greatest influence. As more and more high ranking black belts pulled away from Grandmaster Hwang Kee and started their own federations and would often then list they taught just Tang Soo Do. SCR Gladewater SooBahkDo wrote: Fred Moo Duk Kwan some say is a style, Some say it is a school name in which a style is taught. I have been in the Moo Duk Kwan for many years and see both points of view. I tend to refer to it as a school name in which Soo Bahk Do is taught. Although there are Tae Kwon Do, and Tang Soo Do groups out there teaching under the Moo Duk Kwan name. The founder of the Moo Duk Kwan school at the time of his death only recongnized Soo Bahk Do as a Moo Duk Kwan affiliate. All others had history with or lineage to the Moo Duk Kwan but were not following the Kwan Jang Nim and his vision for the Moo Duk Kwan. The term Moo is (Military) Duk (Virtue) and Kwan is (School) This means that the term Moo Duk Kwan literally means SCHOOL where military virtue is taught. I am sure others will give there opinions, however as a current member of the Moo Duk Kwan and 25 years experiance with the Moo Duk Kwan this is my opinion. JC _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Sensei Steven Riggs Master Instructor American Defensive Arts Master of Philosophy in Martial Science stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] moo duk kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All Kwan's did not agree to come together. The Moo Duk Kwan refused and stayed apart. The others did come together and have since used the name Tae Kwon Do. Whether you feel that was a good or bad idea is an opinion. Many have argued as to who did what when and why...Those arguements will never be settled. The one fact is Grandmaster Hwang Kee the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan in 1947 in Seoul Korea did not go under the Korean Tae Kwon Do Assoc. and he and his black belts stayed with the name Moo Duk Kwan. and yes I understand and recall that not all his black belts agreed with him and some of them resigned and joined the KTA, but the Moo Duk Kwan stayed seperate. SCR Prof Dr Rizwan Mustafa Zubairi wrote: it is a name of martial arts school in Korea,and later all kwons together under Korea Taekwondo association and they all agree to give name Taekwondo. Regards Rizwan M Zubairi Karachi-Pakistan freddie bishop wrote: Is Moo Duk Kwan a style of martial arts, a place of martial arts practice, or an idealogy? Fred ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Sensei Steven Riggs Master Instructor American Defensive Arts Master of Philosophy in Martial Science stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] moo duk kwan Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:30:46 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The other problem is that the Moo Duk kwan itself split. Many members went with TKD so there is the traditional Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan and there is a TKD Moo Duk Kwon. its never easy is it...... Dave O. -----Original Message----- From: steven riggs To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:39 pm Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] moo duk kwan All Kwan's did not agree to come together. The Moo Duk Kwan refused and stayed apart. The others did come together and have since used the name Tae Kwon Do. Whether you feel that was a good or bad idea is an opinion. Many have argued as to who did what when and why...Those arguements will never be settled. The one fact is Grandmaster Hwang Kee the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan in 1947 in Seoul Korea did not go under the Korean Tae Kwon Do Assoc. and he and his black belts stayed with the name Moo Duk Kwan. and yes I understand and recall that not all his black belts agreed with him and some of them resigned and joined the KTA, but the Moo Duk Kwan stayed seperate. SCR Prof Dr Rizwan Mustafa Zubairi wrote: it is a name of martial arts school in Korea,and later all kwons together under Korea Taekwondo association and they all agree to give name Taekwondo. Regards Rizwan M Zubairi Karachi-Pakistan freddie bishop wrote: Is Moo Duk Kwan a style of martial arts, a place of martial arts practice, or an idealogy? Fred ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Sensei Steven Riggs Master Instructor American Defensive Arts Master of Philosophy in Martial Science stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:09:37 -0400 From: Vernon Noble To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] moo duk kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net freddie bishop wrote: > Is Moo Duk Kwan a style of martial arts, a place of > martial arts practice, or an idealogy? > > Fred > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > The Moo Duk Kwan is dead. The spirit of the Moo Duk Kwan, which was Grandmaster Hwang Kee's vision, must stay alive in all of us that were touched by it. We must reach across all these barriers that we put up to feel the Moo Duk Kwan. If we don"t, then we have lost something truly amazing. Vern Noble --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest