Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 02:58:31 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #229 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. service contracts (dave weller) 2. Re: Use of hand strikes in Taekwondo competitions (Ray) 3. service contracts (dave weller) 4. RE: Video clip: TKD vs kickboxing. (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: dave weller Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:45:18 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] service contracts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The thing that killed me about this article was not the contract,the lady is an adult and should have known better, tough beans there, but the fact that a nine year old got his black belt in ONE YEAR! It's no damn wonder some folks chuckle when they find out you are a black belt. Sad, and absurd at the same time!! dave weller *******************************forwarded article begins here************************************* Long-term deals sticky Signing kids to lengthy recreation pacts can be regrettable By David Migoya Denver Post Staff Writer Master Han Won Lee owns and runs the U.S. Taekwondo Center in Castle Rock. Laurie Jimenez is unhappy with the three-year contract she signed for her two boys Noah, age 9 and Christiaan, age 15, at the school. (Post / Karl Gehring) Laurie Jimenez is emblematic of many of today's parents, searching for an activity her kids will stick with. So when her three sons showed a continued interest in taekwondo last year - they begged their mother to let them go - the Castle Rock resident relented and signed them up at the U.S. Taekwondo Center. It seemed like a perfect fit. USTC owner Han Won Lee had strong credentials: a shared bronze medal from the 1988 Summer Olympics in Seoul, South Korea, and a decade as resident coach at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. But as situations changed, attitudes shifted and attentions diverted, Jimenez wanted out of her three-year contract with USTC after a year. It wasn't so much the Long-term contracts expense - an $11,000 commitment automatically charged in $300 increments to her credit card each month - but, Jimenez said, because her eldest son, Robert, 18, didn't want to continue studying. The program was just too demanding for him. Also, Jimenez said she felt USTC didn't accept the best efforts of her 15-year-old son, Christiaan - a disabled teen with difficulty maintaining his balance - insisting instead that he meet standards like other students. "You have no idea how many hours a week I pushed those little boys," Jimenez said. Jimenez's situation brings into focus the oft- questioned practice of committing children to long-term deals for any activity, and the intentions of parents who sign the contracts and businesses that use them. Long-term contracts, once popular in the fitness-club industry, are increasingly being used in the martial-arts business. Lee said he accommodated the Jimenez clan, offering assistance to ensure the boys' success. He noted how the youngest of the boys, 9- year-old Noah, attained his black belt within a year. Nevertheless, Lee said, he runs a business, and the contract was clear: Jimenez agreed to pay for taekwondo classes Christiaan Jimenez, age 15, left, and his brother Noah, age 9, right, proudly displayed the color-coded belts they were awarded for their achievments in taekwondo at the U.S. Taekwondo Center in Castle Rock. Their mother Laurie signed a three-year contract for classes for the boys. (Post / Karl Gehring) - whether her boys attended or not - until 2009. Lee said Jimenez could not meet any of the written terms necessary to negate the agreement, such as proving Robert had moved at least 30 miles away to attend college. "They knew everything upfront," Lee said. "Nothing was hidden." Long-term contracts fell out of favor years ago following disputes with health clubs that signed adult members to lifetime deals, then closed their doors, leaving customers unable to get refunds. Other clubs quickly offered monthly deals instead, a practice that continues today. Yet long-term contracts are gaining popularity again, this time among the nation's 30,000 tae kwondo outlets, industry experts say. "The practice of long-term contracts is not illegal; it's just cumbersome and troublesome," said Susan Liehe, spokeswoman for the Denver/Boulder Better Business Bureau. "It's troubling because life happens. You move; you break a leg; a family breaks up. Customers are optimistic, but when it doesn't work, it makes for a difficult split." Jimenez said she wasn't thrilled with signing a long-term deal but worried that her boys wouldn't get a shot at the coveted black belt if she didn't agree to a special black-belt club that Lee offered. "I was hesitant, but it happened so fast, and even though it didn't feel right, I didn't want to be embarrassed," Jimenez said. Taekwondo schools are encouraged to wrap multiyear contracts around the goal of a black belt, according to industry publications. That's partly because 70 percent of today's students are children, said Rob Colasanti of the National Association of Professional Martial Artists. "There has been an exponential growth in the number of black-belt clubs," Colasanti said. "The structure and methodology of the programs hold a special appeal to youngsters." Conceding that his black-belt program is tough and typically takes about three years, Lee said his school uses the multiyear deals as a way to keep youngsters on track. "The goal is to have the black belt, and this empowers our kids," Lee said. "If they can accomplish this, then they can do anything else." Martial-arts contracts are different from the health-club deals that caused problems years ago, Colasanti said. "Health clubs wanted nonactive payees because if everyone showed up, the line would be around the block," he said. "Martial arts is a curriculum. ... But it also helps with the financial stability of the school." Some schools, however, shun the practice, saying the goal should be to earn customer loyalty rather than lock someone into a deal. "Long-term contracts reduce accountability to the schools," said Robbin Merta, co-owner of Saeng Myong Martial Arts in Broomfield. "We want people to feel free to leave if they are not getting what they hoped." She said she doesn't think it's a good idea to commit kids to anything long term. "Life situations change," she said. "If it were me, I'd not sign a long-term contract for my 7-year-old assuming that nothing in his life would change until he's 12. "I'd love it if he could, but it's just not realistic." --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Use of hand strikes in Taekwondo competitions To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Some Taekwondo instructors discourage the use of hand blows in competition > eg fist strikes to chest etc. They feel the student must use more kicks. > Are hand blows and strikes totally disallowed or discouraged? > What do the rules say about use of hand blows in competitions? Is there > any authoritative website or book where I can check this out and quote? It is very difficult to get a real Kukki-TKD ref to score a point on a punch to the chest. It does happen, but very rarely. At all elite level comps combined, about once every few years. Seriously... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: dave weller Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:50:36 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] service contracts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The thing that killed me about this article was not the contract, the lady is an adult and should have known better, tough beans there, but the fact that a nine year old got his black belt in ONE YEAR! It's no damn wonder some folks chuckle when they find out you are a black belt. Sad, and absurd at the same time!! Mr. Gordon, well stated! I always laugh at people (including myself a few times) who enter into a contract for all the wrong reasons, then want to back out and expect to be accommodated. She even stated "I was hesitant, but it happened so fast, and even though it didn't feel right, I didn't want to be embarrassed," Didn't want to be embarrassed? More so to enter into a contract you have a pretty good idea is a mistake. 25.00 per month and no contracts at our school for 5 classes per week. We are SO in the dark ages out here... :) dave weller *******************************forwarded article begins here************************************* Long-term deals sticky --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:01:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Video clip: TKD vs kickboxing. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I saw a compilation of this Andy hug man, good stuff! now those guys in the clip I provided should have used their kicks like mr hug. Jye "Ferdinand \"Fernando\" Perez" wrote: Try this link, it has a variety of Andy Hug (RIP) fights, enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=andy+hug -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:33 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Video clip: TKD vs kickboxing. Where's the video clip. And as for the axe kick in kickboxing, two words, "Andy Hug." Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jye nigma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip: TKD vs kickboxing. Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:30:15 -0700 (PDT) I can't figure out why these TKD guy kept trying to use that axe kick...lol Jye --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. 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