Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:46:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #231 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Three Musketeers (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 2. Re: More on contracts (sidtkd@aol.com) 3. Re: Yet ANOTHER pet peeve (Stovall, Craig) 4. Re: Long term contracts (Joseph Cheavens) 5. Re: Long term contracts (Thomas Gordon) 6. Re: Re: More on contracts (Thomas Gordon) 7. Re: Re: More on contracts (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 8. Kicking Bags? (Steve Roberts) 9. RE: Kicking Bags? (Ferdinand "Fernando" Perez) 10. Re: Kicking Bags? (Anthony Zahler) 11. Re: Kicking Bags? (Anthony Zahler) 12. Video of our class (Ray) 13. RE: Kicking Bags? (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:05:10 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Three Musketeers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye mentioned the Three Musketeers, so I thought I'd let everyone know that the 1949 movie with Gene Kelly as D'Artagnan, Angela Lansbury as Anne of Austria, and Vincent Price as Cardinal Richelieu is now available on DVD. I'm a big fan of the musketeers, and have watched the Douglas Fairbanks Sr. versions, the 1960s UK series, the 1970s ones (excellent!) and even the 1990s one (bogus!). Along with Scaramouche with Stewart Granger and Harakiri, this is one of my favorite sword movies (in technicolor!). Joe-bob says, check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Musketeers-Lana-Turner/dp/B000KJU13M/ref=pd_ bbs_sr_3/104-6123628-9235141?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1186401829&sr=1-3 Yours in the arts, Dakin --__--__-- Message: 2 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:35:08 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: More on contracts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hope Tom Gordon didn't misunderstand me. It's not the instructor that is at fault for setting up a contract at whatever fee he chooses as lonf as the client doesn't sign under duress. It just seems to me very silly for anyone to agree to $300 a month when there are so many other options. I live in New York City. I charge some of my students $100 a month a 5 of them pay nothing at all. The five that pay $0 represent 4 athlethes with no money who are great and one older man with little skill. little money and a heart as big as the moon. \Sid ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:26:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Yet ANOTHER pet peeve Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "What is this new trend I see where color belts are wearing the dobak top of black trim? Who started this nonsense?" LMFAO at your clothing fetish. Ooooooooohhhhhh, colored belts are wearing black trim...something BAAAAAADDD is going to happen. Someone save us!!! CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this e-mail was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by e-mail or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Long term contracts Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:48:05 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hope you didn't think that I was defending the mother's whining about the contract. She signed the contract, so tough luck there. However, I think that long term contracts like this are a bad business practice (you admit that you don't do them yourself) that reflect poorly on martial arst in genearl and Taekwondo in particular, since it seems like TKD schools use this practice more than schools that teach other arts. There is a fine line between running a matial arts shool as one's profession and running a business that sells martial arts (McDojang), and I think long term contracts, along with the other points I raised, are all symptomatic of the latter rather than the former. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Gordon" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Long term contracts Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:51:38 -0500 (CDT) I’ll start off by saying, at this time, we don’t offer three year contracts. However, if we did, just like the school owner in the article, we’d only enter into them with adults. She has an 18 year old, surely she’s seen a contract before and knows what it entails. And, like Master Lee, if we did, it would have an escape clause should they move XX miles or get injured and can’t train. An adult signed them and now she’s stuck paying the bill – it’s called accountability. From a business perspective, sounds like Master Lee is giving her some training in adult responsibility. Heck, appears there’s another school in the area that doesn’t require contracts so it’s not like she didn’t have a choice. According to Master Lee, everything was presented before she signed including the escape clauses. She doesn’t deny this. The article is written to tug at the emotional side of us. One son has a disability, one has ADD, and one couldn’t think of an ailment so he said it was just too demanding. Did any of this happen AFTER she signed the contract for her boys? The boys are 18, 15, and 9 yet she comments, "You have no idea how many hours a week I pushed those little boys," HA! Little boys!? Poor little babies. I’d be more empathetic if one of her son’s wanted to quit for whatever reason. But all three want to quit for various reasons. Furthermore, it never said they were forced to sign in order to continue training. It was for the black belt club which is typically an upgrade. Now the one year black belt comment - yikes! They may have been a typo - I'd like to think so. If not, what's the point in doing a "36 month black belt club" when it only takes 12 months? I gotta go now, I’m going to call my landlord and see if I can tell them that I don’t want to play martial art teacher anymore. I mean, running a full time professional facility is just tooooo demanding. Thomas Gordon Florida _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:57:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Long term contracts From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Cheavens, I have mixed feelings on extended contracts. Three years IS a long time. My struggles are this: How long does it take to earn a black belt? (I know, I know - not everyone wants to earn their black belt) Am I interested in training someone that won't stick it out? (Argument here is, "how do they know enough after taking two classes that they want to sign a 50 year contract....) At this time, I don't have anyone on a 24 month contract - much less a 36 month. So yeah, I have some struggles with it. On the flip side, do I really want the person around that doesn't want to be there? And frankly, that's the side that wins out at this time....at least with our school. One of my instructors tried to get out of their contract. Their instructor wouldn't allow it. Fast forward several years and he's been a great instructor for me. Think of the lives he impacted in a positive way by not being allowed to quit. Thomas Gordon Florida > I hope you didn't think that I was defending the mother's whining about > the contract. She signed the contract, so tough luck there. However, I > think that long term contracts like this are a bad business practice (you > admit that you don't do them yourself) that reflect poorly on martial > arst in genearl and Taekwondo in particular, since it seems like TKD > schools use this practice more than schools that teach other arts. There > is a fine line between running a matial arts shool as one's profession > and running a business that sells martial arts (McDojang), and I think > long term contracts, along with the other points I raised, are all > symptomatic of the latter rather than the former. > > Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:58:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: More on contracts From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I charge some of my students $100 a month a 5 of them pay nothing at all. The five that pay $0 represent 4 athlethes with no money who are great and one older man with little skill. little money and a heart as big as the moon." Mr. Sid (sorry, forgot last name), I think scholarships are great if the school can afford to give them. That's the trick though, if overhead is covered, the school can afford to give some help to those unable to pay full rate. Got a chuckle out of the older man you described. I hear ya, I hear ya. More of those types of people are needed in this world. In regards to contracts, I agree in that the people that sign up for contracts and unwilling to keep their children on track are morons. Since email is expressionless, this is not really a reply to you per se but further thoughts on the subject. (In other words, no offense meant and I'm not saying you said that I said you said...well, heck, I'm confused now) There are just too many examples of "programs" for teens/children that take longer than three years. Our oldest was in gymnastics for 3-4 years after taking dance for 3-4 years. The only reason she quit them was because the next level took us out of town 2-3 times a week for training. Football, cheerleading, baseball, basketball, color guard, etc is basically a 3-4 year commitment if only done in high school. Some of the kids playing the school sports did it in little league, middle/junior school, and high school. Heck, even JROTC is basically a four year term if you intend to get any benefit from it. And I guess that's what it boils down to - takes more than a few classes to get to the true benefits. But alas, I'm preaching to the choir. :) Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: More on contracts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:21:36 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I am not a fan of long term contracts, the one I signed has been of great benefit. The reason I was given for the contract was that it teaches children (& adults) a sense of commitment. Finish what you start! I gave my children the choice to commit before I signed them up & I hold them (and myself) to it. The school we attend starts with a free week-month of classes (and uniform) to get acquainted with TKD, the school, instructors and other students. If you decide to join , they have a 6 month membership. Payment options are available. If you decide to continue, they have a Black Belt Club membership that takes you to Cho Dan Bo (temporary black belt). There is no time limit on this membership. Some have made it from white belt to black belt in three years, some have taken ten years or longer. Hey, life gets in the way. For those who have difficulty making payments, there are scholarship programs or even part-time employment positions. If not for the contract, I could easily have found an excuse for not going to class and I wouldn't have made the tremendous progress that I thankful to have made. I wouldn't have gotten to know the greatest group of people it has been my pleasure to associate with. I would probably still be one of those people who don't make long term commitments and constantly look for excuses for not being reliable. Victor Dodge --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:32:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Roberts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I need to buy a kicking bag for my home. I have a water filled hanging bag in the basement, but the space is just too small and I've never liked the bag. Too light and moves around too much. Ideally, in my new, larger space, I'd love a good hanging heavy bag....but am limited to a standing one. Do any of you in dojang-land have some suggestions for standing bags that might offer similar resistance to a good heavy bag? Thanks Steve --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Ferdinand \"Fernando\" Perez" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:31:00 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 1. Is your water bag filled to its capacity? If so that should minimize the swinging. 2. Or consider purchasing a free standing bag like the one at http://www.centurymartialarts.com/Default.aspx or at Karate Depot: http://www.karatedepot.com/bx-hv-57.html Good Luck and keep on kicking! Fernando. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Roberts [mailto:steverts@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:33 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? I need to buy a kicking bag for my home. I have a water filled hanging bag in the basement, but the space is just too small and I've never liked the bag. Too light and moves around too much. Ideally, in my new, larger space, I'd love a good hanging heavy bag....but am limited to a standing one. Do any of you in dojang-land have some suggestions for standing bags that might offer similar resistance to a good heavy bag? Thanks Steve _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:14:15 -0400 From: "Anthony Zahler" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Century Wavemaster XXL has proven to be durable and it gives good resistance, It is expensive at $299, if you have a business account with them it drops to $249 or less. Wavemaster XXL Century's ultimate bag with the largest kicking and punching surface area on the market. Stands 69" tall and a full 18" in diameter. Striking surface is made of durable vinyl over high density foam. Low profile base and large new bag provide an excellent target for both punching and kicking. Weight distribution of base provides stability and functionality. Extra large fill hole and cap allows you to easily fill base with sand or water. No tool required for assembly. Weighs approx. 270lbs when filled. On 8/6/07, Steve Roberts wrote: > > I need to buy a kicking bag for my home. I have a > water filled hanging bag in the basement, but the > space is just too small and I've never liked the bag. > Too light and moves around too much. Ideally, in my > new, larger space, I'd love a good hanging heavy > bag....but am limited to a standing one. Do any of you > in dojang-land have some suggestions for standing bags > that might offer similar resistance to a good heavy > bag? > Thanks > Steve > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 18:50:01 -0400 From: "Anthony Zahler" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Even filled to capacity, I split the core at the top. Fixed it a couple of time but it died after about 4 months. The karatedepot.com price looks good to me. On 8/6/07, Ferdinand Fernando Perez wrote: > > 1. Is your water bag filled to its capacity? If so that should minimize > the swinging. > > 2. Or consider purchasing a free standing bag like the one at > http://www.centurymartialarts.com/Default.aspx or at > Karate Depot: http://www.karatedepot.com/bx-hv-57.html > > Good Luck and keep on kicking! > > Fernando. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Roberts [mailto:steverts@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:33 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? > > I need to buy a kicking bag for my home. I have a > water filled hanging bag in the basement, but the > space is just too small and I've never liked the bag. > Too light and moves around too much. Ideally, in my > new, larger space, I'd love a good hanging heavy > bag....but am limited to a standing one. Do any of you > in dojang-land have some suggestions for standing bags > that might offer similar resistance to a good heavy > bag? > Thanks > Steve > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 12 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] Video of our class Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Short video of our class last night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jTpsf0tWD0 :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 01:38:21 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You can have my mother in law....she is definately a big standing bag...filled with water and stuff.....LOL.....I'll sell her cheap and you can kick her all you want...Mike Tomlinson >From: Steve Roberts >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicking Bags? >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:32:56 -0700 (PDT) > >I need to buy a kicking bag for my home. I have a >water filled hanging bag in the basement, but the >space is just too small and I've never liked the bag. >Too light and moves around too much. Ideally, in my >new, larger space, I'd love a good hanging heavy >bag....but am limited to a standing one. Do any of you >in dojang-land have some suggestions for standing bags >that might offer similar resistance to a good heavy >bag? >Thanks >Steve >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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