Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:44:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #247 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Korea's Best (Charles Richards) 2. Thanks (kwan jang) 3. re: joint locks and compliance (gtkda@ntelos.net) 4. knife defense (Dugy) 5. RE: DDers in BB Mag (aburrese@aol.com) 6. Moo Kwon (Nick McKenna) 7. SD knives (Dugy) 8. LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof (Rick Clark) 9. Re: LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof (Michael Munyon) 10. Realistic Self-Defense (Alan Boswell) 11. Re: SD knives (WTSDA Bruce) 12. Re: LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof (WTSDA Bruce) 13. RE: knife defense (Dennis Overall) 14. Re: Realistic Self-Defense (Michael Munyon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:14:05 -0400 From: "Charles Richards" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korea's Best Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Congrats to DD members GM Rudy Timmerman and Alain Burrese who are quoted in the Oct/07 issue of Black Belt Magazine! The article, "Korea's Best," includes quotes from 20 people identified as "movers and shakers in the martial arts." Exit extreme deep mole lurk mode :-) Congrats to two fine gentlemen I am proud to say I have shared the mat with...I guess that makes me shaken and moved :-) Train with jung do in your hearts the rest is commentary mc --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "kwan jang" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:35:48 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thanks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Gordon writes: <> Thank you Master Gordon. I will have a good birthday party this weekend at the annual NKMAA Summer camp seminar at my place. We look forward to seeing you all there. Drive safe e1. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:47:46 -0400 (EDT) From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: joint locks and compliance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Scott, I couldn't agree with you more.  When I was teaching CDT a couple of years ago I was told flat out by the local Chief of Police "What they learn at the Academy is good enough".   But yet when speaking with many local officers they ALL want additional empty hand training.  But on the flip side of that I have held training sessions for officers who say they would like additional training on the side, on their own time, but don't show up for it!  So, what do you do?  The issue with the Chiefs of Police and those in decision making roles is money.  They simply do not want to pay for their officers undergo the training.  So, I offered training sessions for FREE.  Still, no shows.   They all like the demos I do, they all know my reputation as an instructor and how effective the techniques of what I teach are.  But getting law enforcement officials to make this type of training mandatory is a struggle in itself. James Morgan GTKDA This weekend I was talking with a defensive tactics instructor of a large metropolitan police dept. in the SE. He has a background in Tang Soo Do, Gracie jujitsu, mixed styles ground work, Kodokan Judo and countless police seminars. One of his greatest frustrations is getting the department to take seriously the need for continued follow up practice of defensive tactics. They alot a certain number of hours in the Academy for rookies but after that the work becomes voluntary. Officers express interest to coming to a well equipped gym, padded rooms, experienced instructors and fellow officers to help and only a few show up. The same thing happens on the firing range. Officers appear for their quarterly qualifications and have a free day or two a month to use the range but only a few take advantage of it. Then officers are injured and sometimes killed and we wonder why. While I believe it is mainly the responsibility of the officer to take care of himself the department has a responsibility to require him to maintain a certain level of preparedness. Rarely showing up at the gym just doesn't cut it. I agree 1000%.  No technique will work that is not practiced over and over and then some more. S.C. Riggs  --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Dugy" To: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:40:56 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] knife defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just purchased a book tittled: The Ultimate Guide to Knife Combat compiled by Jon Sattler, thru BB magazine web site. I also bought the book Knife laws of the 50 States. Now that I know the legal status of the size of the blade for the state I;'m in, I am looking for a knife. The Guide to Knife combat is full of infomation, even tells you how to handle the difficult butterfly knife. I guess when I move to another state with different laws regarding blade size, I'll have to toss my new knife away, eh? I missed some of the talk on knife defenses except the latest "don't piss someone off enough to use it against you", which makes a whole lotta sense to me. However there are times when I might find myself against one, so what to do, pull out my own I guess, eh? (don't own a gun). Anyway, anyone read these books? Any comments?? Doug M --__--__-- Message: 5 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:59:56 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: DDers in BB Mag Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Sharon. Thanks so much for the compliment. Nice to see our friend Alain get some well deserved publicity. Her is hoping we all will run into one another again real soon. Rudy *********************** It is an honor to be quoted along side you! And note that Sharon's co-school owner Steve P. is also quoted in the article. Thanks! Alain www.burrese.com ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:22:16 +0100 From: "Nick McKenna" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Kwon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All I was wondering if anyone on the list has heard of the 10 Moo Kwon forms? I think that they were put together in the 20th century, but only practised for a small period of time. Does anyone know anything about them? The spelling may not be 100%!! Thanks Nick. Nick McKenna 4th Dan Tang Soo Do No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.1/965 - Release Date: 21/08/2007 16:02 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Dugy" To: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:04:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] SD knives Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Looking for a knife I went to Phil Elmore site but I was not impressed with his hide-away knife nor his samples newsletters. Im looking for a good SD knife. At a training seminar, an atty showed me one he uses. It was a mid sized knife with a little dodat (bump) on the blade near the handle where the hindge is. It allows for easy opening. The knife is rather sharp, but aren't they suppose to be. The bump was easily felt and the knife easily opened. I can't contact him and I'm looking for a similar one. I've searched the net but not having luck. I thought here at the DD, I might get a better idea. I know a butterfly knife can be handled with practice. I aim to practice. Any suggestions? Thanks. DougM --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:48:11 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With regard to training LEO and CO's it's an uphill battle. A bit of research I have done in the past was to draw out a pie chart using the most up to date data from the Unified Crime Reports of the FBI (if you want start at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2005/assaulted.htm ) injuries * 27.4 percent of the 57,546 officers assaulted suffered injuries. * Of the officers who were injured as a result of assaults with weapons: o 29.1 percent of the officers were attacked with personal weapons. (read hands and feet) o 13.4 percent of the officers were attacked with knives or other cutting instruments. o 9.1 percent of the officers were attacked with firearms. o 24.6 percent of the officers were attacked with other types of dangerous weapons. (this could be anything from a car to bombs or lead pipes - it covers anything) If you look at the data you will see that there is a REAL need for LEO to participate on a regular basis in close quarter combat training of some sort. If you look at the distance that gun assaults most often occur they are at relatively close range. I believe it's common for police to be required to show proficiency with firearms twice a year, and they are provided a LOT of ammunition to practice. They must keep and maintain at least one range, so there is a lot of expense involved in firearms training. I am VERY surprised that at some point in time an officer who has been assaulted or is accused of police brutality does not sue the agency for which they work for "failure to train". Departments seem very willing to train in deadly force, yet unwilling to train their officers in less than deadly force techniques. Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Michael Munyon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:40:58 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Clark, Thanks for the info.  I could use this stuff. Very Respecfully, Michael Munyon On Wed Aug 22 15:48 , 'Rick Clark' sent: With regard to training LEO and CO's it's an uphill battle. A bit of research I have done in the past was to draw out a pie chart using the most up to date data from the Unified Crime Reports of the FBI (if you want start at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2005/assaulted.htm ) injuries * 27.4 percent of the 57,546 officers assaulted suffered injuries. * Of the officers who were injured as a result of assaults with weapons: o 29.1 percent of the officers were attacked with personal weapons. (read hands and feet) o 13.4 percent of the officers were attacked with knives or other cutting instruments. o 9.1 percent of the officers were attacked with firearms. o 24.6 percent of the officers were attacked with other types of dangerous weapons. (this could be anything from a car to bombs or lead pipes - it covers anything) If you look at the data you will see that there is a REAL need for LEO to participate on a regular basis in close quarter combat training of some sort. If you look at the distance that gun assaults most often occur they are at relatively close range. I believe it's common for police to be required to show proficiency with firearms twice a year, and they are provided a LOT of ammunition to practice. They must keep and maintain at least one range, so there is a lot of expense involved in firearms training. I am VERY surprised that at some point in time an officer who has been assaulted or is accused of police brutality does not sue the agency for which they work for "failure to train". Departments seem very willing to train in deadly force, yet unwilling to train their officers in less than deadly force techniques. Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Alan Boswell" To: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:51:22 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Realistic Self-Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello All, I am looking for a certified realistic self-defense course that I can introduce to my TKD Club. I am a 1st Dan and I am interested in learning and sharing with my club real world techniques. I only certified self-defense system that I have heard of is R.A.D. Has anyone used used the RAD training? Thanks, Alan Boswell --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] SD knives Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:53:08 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I own both of these models, with an opening appendage at the hinge. The Kershaw is the best, not a spring loaded, but acts like it. Kershaw about $100, CRKT about $50. Other manufacturers have this type of feature, but my Kershaw is the backup weapon I depend on. http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=31 http://www.crkt.com/m16srt.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dugy" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:04 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] SD knives > Looking for a knife I went to Phil Elmore site but I was not impressed > with > his hide-away knife nor his samples newsletters. > > Im looking for a good SD knife. At a training seminar, an atty showed me > one > he uses. It was a mid sized > knife with a little dodat (bump) on the blade near the handle where the > hindge > is. It allows for easy opening. > The knife is rather sharp, but aren't they suppose to be. The bump was > easily > felt and the knife easily opened. > > I can't contact him and I'm looking for a similar one. I've searched the > net > but not having luck. I thought here > at the DD, I might get a better idea. I know a butterfly knife can be > handled > with practice. I aim to practice. > > Any suggestions? Thanks. DougM > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:03:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net EXCELLENT site, thanks. >From the stats, you can see that LE training needs to include training that would involve a bludgeoned, knife or fist. Less than 10% of attacks on P/O's involve firearms. Again get train for the day (even if it is on your own), it will come. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Clark" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:48 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof > With regard to training LEO and CO's it's an uphill battle. A bit of > research I have done in the past was to draw out a pie chart using the > most > up to date data from the Unified Crime Reports of the FBI (if you want > start > at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2005/assaulted.htm ) > > injuries > > * 27.4 percent of the 57,546 officers assaulted suffered injuries. > * Of the officers who were injured as a result of assaults with > weapons: > o 29.1 percent of the officers were attacked with personal > weapons. (read hands and feet) > o 13.4 percent of the officers were attacked with knives or other > cutting instruments. > o 9.1 percent of the officers were attacked with firearms. > o 24.6 percent of the officers were attacked with other types of > dangerous weapons. (this could be anything from a car to bombs or lead > pipes > - it covers anything) > > If you look at the data you will see that there is a REAL need for LEO to > participate on a regular basis in close quarter combat training of some > sort. If you look at the distance that gun assaults most often occur they > are at relatively close range. > > I believe it's common for police to be required to show proficiency with > firearms twice a year, and they are provided a LOT of ammunition to > practice. They must keep and maintain at least one range, so there is a > lot > of expense involved in firearms training. > > I am VERY surprised that at some point in time an officer who has been > assaulted or is accused of police brutality does not sue the agency for > which they work for "failure to train". > > Departments seem very willing to train in deadly force, yet unwilling to > train their officers in less than deadly force techniques. > > Later, > > Rick Clark > www.ao-denkou-kai.org > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Dennis Overall" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] knife defense Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:23:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dugy, A book is fine if you already understand the finer points of knife defense.  You cannot learn the essence of defense from a book. For example, and this is not a complete list, you cannot learn from a book: 1. timing 2. speed 3. balance 4. coordination 5. instinct 6. courage 7. proper finish and the list can go on and on.  You need an instructor that has the power of "naked eye observation" someone that can observe and quantify what changes are needed in your defense to make it effectilve.  A bad guy doesn't care about knife size or rules, you don't have to make him mad, he just wants to hurt and rob you of anything he can get away with, period.  By the way, bad guys buy books too.  -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ See what you’re getting into…before you go there --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Michael Munyon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Realistic Self-Defense Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:32:09 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Boswell, RAD...isn't that the Rape Aggressive Defense course mostly a Women's self defense course? If you don't mind me asking......why do you need a certified self defense course?  Does having a certified self defense course make it any better then a non certified self defense course?  My thoughts are as followed.  IF, you're looking for more self defense just invite other martial art school owners to do a joint class with yours.  Also, many law enforcement agencies will offer classes if you inquire about them.  Plus, you can make some good contacts as well.  Are you near a military installation?  I'm sure there are many ways to find self defense programs in your local area.  IF a certification course is what you're looking for you will be paying a lot of money for something that probably isn't really worth what you're investing in. Good luck sir. Very Respecfully, Michael Munyon On Wed Aug 22 19:51 , 'Alan Boswell' sent: Hello All, I am looking for a certified realistic self-defense course that I can introduce to my TKD Club. I am a 1st Dan and I am interested in learning and sharing with my club real world techniques. I only certified self-defense system that I have heard of is R.A.D. Has anyone used used the RAD training? Thanks, Alan Boswell _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest