Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:58:33 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #248 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. On the mat (kwan jang) 2. Dougs looking for knives (Luther Veuleman) 3. RE: LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof (Rick Clark) 4. Re: SD knives (michael tomlinson) 5. RE: LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof (Rick Clark) 6. RE: Realistic Self-Defense (Rick Clark) 7. RE: LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof (Joseph Cheavens) 8. RE: SD knives (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "kwan jang" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:15:31 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] On the mat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles writes:<< Congrats to two fine gentlemen I am proud to say I have shared the mat with...I guess that makes me shaken and moved :-)>> Thank you Charles. It was MY priviledge to be on the mat with you. Alain... I did not see the article, but I am glad to be in good company ;) Warmest personal regards, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Luther Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dougs looking for knives Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Doug, I have a friend, who happens to be on ray's other board, that owns a blade-e-commerce site. http://www.crocblades.com is the site. Go check it out. Sorry for the plug Ray! Charlie V <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Looking for a knife I went to Phil Elmore site but I was not impressed with his hide-away knife nor his samples newsletters. Im looking for a good SD knife. At a training seminar, an atty showed me one he uses. It was a mid sized knife with a little dodat (bump) on the blade near the handle where the hindge is. It allows for easy opening. The knife is rather sharp, but aren't they suppose to be. The bump was easily felt and the knife easily opened. I can't contact him and I'm looking for a similar one. I've searched the net but not having luck. I thought here at the DD, I might get a better idea. I know a butterfly knife can be handled with practice. I aim to practice. Any suggestions? Thanks. DougM --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:18:40 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Michael, >From: Michael Munyon [mailto:tkdmun@cableone.net] >Mr. Clark, Please use Rick, it always feels like someone is talking to my father when I hear (see) Mr. - just can't seem to get over that :-) > >Thanks for the info. I could use this stuff. Not a problem. What is fun is to take all of the data from the very start and put that on a pie chart (or bar) it's just so obvious to me that there is a real need for the hand to hand stuff. If you dig a bit deeper in the data you can find stuff that shows much LEO rely on the hand to hand stuff yet they are given such minimal training AND expected by the general public (as well as the departments) to handle situations without using "excessive force". People in general just do not have any idea how hard it is to put cuff's on an individual if they are resisting and you don't have a couple of guys giving you a hand. Then the problem of 3 or 4 people all trying to do something to facilitate getting the cuffs on and not having pre-planned techniques. You get 3 or 4 people doing different things trying to be of help but getting in each other's way. CO's in some respects are better trained in that they will practice cell extraction and know in advance exactly what each member should be doing. Or for that matter the SWAT teams - they tend to do a lot more practice. For the life of me I just cannot figure out why the LEO administration does not require more training, for that matter why civilians do not demand better training on the part of their LEO. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] SD knives Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:34:09 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net both of these models are good I personally like and have one spyderco model and one benchmade model...I have many many more but these two are my tried and true ones....personally I would stay away from a butterfly knife....I know some of you might love them but IMHO they are clumsy, flashy, gimmicky and not relevant or practical for the job you might have at hand.... Michael Tomlinson >From: "WTSDA Bruce" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] SD knives >Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:53:08 -0500 > >I own both of these models, with an opening appendage at the hinge. The >Kershaw is the best, not a spring loaded, but acts like it. Kershaw about >$100, CRKT about $50. Other manufacturers have this type of feature, but >my Kershaw is the backup weapon I depend on. > > >http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=31 > >http://www.crkt.com/m16srt.html > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Dugy" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:04 PM >Subject: [The_Dojang] SD knives > > >>Looking for a knife I went to Phil Elmore site but I was not impressed >>with >>his hide-away knife nor his samples newsletters. >> >>Im looking for a good SD knife. At a training seminar, an atty showed me >>one >>he uses. It was a mid sized >>knife with a little dodat (bump) on the blade near the handle where the >>hindge >>is. It allows for easy opening. >>The knife is rather sharp, but aren't they suppose to be. The bump was >>easily >>felt and the knife easily opened. >> >>I can't contact him and I'm looking for a similar one. I've searched the >>net >>but not having luck. I thought here >>at the DD, I might get a better idea. I know a butterfly knife can be >>handled >>with practice. I aim to practice. >> >>Any suggestions? Thanks. DougM >>_______________________________________________ >>The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >>The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >>Standard disclaimers apply >>Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:04:47 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, >From: WTSDA Bruce [mailto:wtsda-samdan@sbcglobal.net] >EXCELLENT site, thanks. Not a problem :-) > >From the stats, you can see that LE training needs to include training that >would involve a bludgeoned, knife or fist. Less than 10% of attacks on >P/O's involve firearms. > >Again get train for the day (even if it is on your own), it will come. If you want to have a bit more fun, and it does require a bit more research. Some years back I was teaching a Research Methodology class in the Criminology Dept. and as an assignment I had students research on use of force in the professional literature. They were to pick an article or two and look at how the article was written. Look at the introduction, research if any, conclusions and then evaluate - critically analyze the article. Anyway the unexpected thing that I noticed was that everyone had used articles on deadly force. Well being a martial artist I had been expecting that there would have been articles on close quarter combat. So this got me thinking, why not get on the data bases and find every article I could on use of force and then sort them according to type of force discussed. To my surprise the vast majority were related to deadly force, very few to non-deadly force. Yet, the vast majority of interaction with the public required techniques that did not involve deadly force. You could just look and see an inverse relationship between what was taught and what was really used by LEO. They were drilled deadly force (firearms) yet in real life the officers used less than deadly force techniques. Yet they were not trained in the less than deadly force techniques - well in the academy. But that was about it. Over the years I have wanted to go back and do that bit of research again. That was quite a few computers ago and I have lost the information I collected. If I ever do it again I plan to be a bit more organized and better about saving the information:-) Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:11:39 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Realistic Self-Defense To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Alan, >From: Alan Boswell [mailto:apboswell@bellsouth.net] >I am looking for a certified realistic self-defense course that I can >introduce to my TKD Club. I am a 1st Dan and I am interested in learning >and sharing with my club real world techniques. I only certified >self-defense system that I have heard of is R.A.D. Has anyone used used the >RAD training? > >Thanks, >Alan Boswell I am curious why you don't ask your instructor? As a 1st dan I would assume that you are working with a higher ranked individual so that you can progress. Also, I am wondering what you mean by "certified"? Who would certify the course? Would it be a government agency, or a martial arts group? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO close quarter combat training - or lack thereof Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:03:45 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Excellent point, Rick. I think part of the problem is that administrators are removed from the daily threat while those administrators and those less willing to put in the time to train think the issue can be solved with more/better technology (e.g. pepper spray, tazers, etc). Here is a story with video of what happens when LEO rely more on tools than training. http://www.kvue.com/news/local/stories/060606kvuedaycareassault-cb.5de81125.html The officer in this video is extremely lucky that back-up showed up when it did. If it had taken a little longer, she would have been seriously injured or possibley killed. Joe Cheavens ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:26:03 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] SD knives To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi I have to jump in and offer my two cents on knives - the only time I am not carrying one of my Kershaw knives is when I have had to travel and could not get it through security:-) While I don't do this - I should - I think any knife that you might carry for self-defense should have a non-slip handle. Not to be too graphic but blood and other bodily fluids on a grip could give you an ineffective grip, and that is an important thing. I have to admit I have not been able to read all of the posts - we had a computer crash and I have been restoring backed up data and having to recreate other documents - BACK UP EVERYTHING. Anyway, if someone has not mentioned the importance of getting some Arnis training let me highly recommend that you do so. I have been in the martial arts since 1962 and have a bit of a perspective. Arnis (or related arts) are an absolute must for anyone who has a serious desire to know how to use a knife or if you want to defend against a knife. Those guys are just plain good with knives. I have done Modern Arnis with the late Remy Presas and I have learned enough of that art to have a HEALTHY respect for a well trained knife fighter. Give me a .223 with a nice scope and 100 yards and I will feel a bit more comfortable - or at closer range a nice 12 gauge with "00" :-) Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest