Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:04:54 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #251 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Knife (Jye nigma) 2. Re: Use of force (Beungood8@aol.com) 3. Dojang Floor (masterm1) 4. LEO/CO Close Quarter Combat Training (Chosondo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 21:52:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What does Hanho mean? Jye Beungood8@aol.com wrote: Combat's Cardinal Rule by Hanho Sang H. Kim --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:34:22 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Use of force Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Use of force continuum is just a guideline and is written to leave open an interpretation. And it should be that way , everyone has certain weaknesses and their threshold level might be a little different than the next person. It boils down to good judgement and the ability to articulate what made you and why you used that tool. If your training is sound in the beginning you will be ok. But this means picking the right person for the job and weeding out political picks( and those of us in Law Enforcement know how this sometimes affects every thing). Someone knowledgeable and well trained should be involved in the writing of the use of force policy. I had a couple of incidents one resulting in myself and a Lieutenant being charged after arresting a low level "rapper" for disorderly conduct. This supervisor as it turned out was my Use of force /defensive tactics instructor 8 years before. We prevailed because we trained extensively and this included discussions of various scena rios. Our policy is written in general terms and not with specific techniques. and has held up in court over and over. Our only problem is with trying to get money for training out of our municipality. Our command staff likes to train and has set up good training in the past but it all comes down to time and money and trying to convince the town selectman that this money is important for many reasons. And usually we take a budget hit and our training loses out. Hopefully our switch to a mayoral form of Government will address these concerns. There ARE however many in the ranks who do go out and seek training on their own. In a message dated 8/26/2007 7:16:53 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: LEO/CO Close Quarter Combat Training (Chosondo@aol.com) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chosendo, I agree with your observation that firearms proficiency and DT are inextricably tied to each other as the use of firearms in law enforcement is, in fact, a defensive tactic. I also agree with your observation that a standardized DT program is virtually impossible. However, I believe this is because of the numerous and differing policy restrictions, not because of, or lack thereof, a legal standard.I do have issue with your statement that follows: > Regardless though, the "force continuum" is by and large the acceptable > standard with respect to the escalation of force (and the use of deadly force). A Use of Force Continuum/Model is a training tool not a legal standard ( I've seen as many as 15 different Use of Force Continuums/models). The legal standard by which law enforcement officers are judged in use of force is "Objective Reasonableness" in light of the "Totality of the Circumstances". This standard is defined by the 4th Amendment and the Supreme Court cases, Graham v. Conner, Tenn. v. Garner, and the most recent and only third use of force case to ever be heard before the Supreme ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "masterm1" To: Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:36:36 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojang Floor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings all I am about to put down a 2,400 sq ft of floor of some kind in my dojang for taekwondo and hapkido. Does anyone have any ideas about building your own floor. I vaguely remember someone mentioning using old car tires to create a sprung floor. I am also interested in getting everyone's opinions about the best and worst of what the commercial market has to offer in flooring. Thanks MasterM --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:08:42 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] LEO/CO Close Quarter Combat Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Tobias: Thank you for your thoughtful response to my post. I do not disagree with you. The "force continuum" is not a legal standard but a law enforcement model. I also agree that there are many variations on this model. I am also well aware of the standard that a LEO behavior is based on what a "reasonable prudent man/woman would do given the "totality of the circumstance". I know that the FBI still uses the "continuum" model as a way in which agents can gauge and assess situations as they occur and unfold. So you see, we are not in disagreement in general. My point is (was) that many folks who claim to teach Law Enforcement Defensive Tactics has never attended a Law Enforcement training academy and, has never effected an arrest on a non-compliant subject alone or in tandem with another LEO. Thanks again for contributing to my post. Be well Ian A. Cyrus ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest