Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:55:19 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #277 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re Headbutts (tim walker) 2. Re: front stance - Ap Kubbi (Taekwondo America) 3. Re: Headbutts (daomyer@aol.com) 4. Re: Headbutts (Ray) 5. Re Headbutts (Ron Johnstone) 6. Re: RE: Oriental (Jye nigma) 7. Re: RE: Oriental (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 8. RE: front stance (TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro) 9. Lopez vs. Abdallah Controversy (gtkda@ntelos.net) 10. 4th PATU Juniors (The_Dojang) 11. Re: Lopez vs. Abdallah Controversy (daomyer@aol.com) 12. Stances, etc. (Bert Edens) 13. Re: front stance - Ap Kubbi (Misty Haji-Sheikh) 14. Re: RE: Oriental (Jye nigma) 15. RE: Headbutts (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:12:18 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re Headbutts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Clark wrote: <> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/37178/ Tol-mori Tim Walker "Braithre Thar Gach Ni" --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:03:44 -0500 From: Taekwondo America To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] front stance - Ap Kubbi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. Clark, Thanks for your reply. I was most interested to read it, and your other post with the example of pushing a car out of a snow bank. Unfortunately, that example would be lost on most of our Texas kids, who have never seen a snow bank in their lives and barely remember what snow looks like from year to year. :-) However, I take your point and this is a good explanation. I have seen front stances such as you describe and interestingly, my instructor used the same logic to teach me a front stance with all ten toes pointing forward: to generate power from the back foot into the hips and shoulders. As far as stretching the ankles, this is another reason we do our front stances this way: performing the front stance with the back toes forward trains the foot to perform flexed foot positions useful for various kicks. I know that beginners will not always be able to do this but there are all kinds of things beginners can't do. ;-) Appreciate the discussion. Cheryl Rogers Rick Clark wrote: > Hi Cheryl, > > From: Taekwondo America [mailto:info@taekwondoamerica.com] > > "All 10 toes straight ahead! If you have 12 toes, I want them all > straight ahead!" > > Cheryl Rogers > > >From what you wrote I am making the assumption that you are talking about a > front stance where all 10 toes are straight ahead. This is completely > different than the way I was taught back in the 60's. The rear leg will > have the toes pointed at a 45 degree angle. The front foot is at 12O'clock > and the rear feet pointing at about 2 O'clock. > > The reason is that if your rear foot is at this angle you can push your rear > leg, with force, giving you more forward "thrust" when you apply a > technique. If you have the rear toes pointing straight ahead you will have > a harder time to do this, in addition you will require a greater degree of > flexibility in the ankle that many may not have. For me a front stance is > about generating force forward, as a personal preference I think that the > rear foot at a 45 will give me greater force. > > Rick Clark > www.ao-denkou-kai.org > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Headbutts Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:43:28 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I believe that in some parts it considered one of the true authentic Korean combat tactics. -----Original Message----- From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 4:03 pm Subject: [The_Dojang] Headbutts How often do you hear about this happening? ? Proof that headbutts work I guess. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297212,00.html JM _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Headbutts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have been told that the older Korean art used to make the head butt a > specialty, pak chigi. I was told that during the occupation of Korea there > were a lot of Japanese soldiers that got their noses broken from getting to > close to a Korean. GM Ji used to classify head butts as a North Korean 'art' and therefore we weren't supposed to practice it. Of course when he wasn't watching we did as little is as devastating as a well delivered head butt. However one must be very careful to do it properly or you'll do severe damage to yourself as well. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re Headbutts Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:22:13 -0400 From: "Ron Johnstone" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Known "affectionately" as A Glasgow Kiss! -----Original Message----- From: tim walker [mailto:timdnml@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 1:12 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re Headbutts Master Clark wrote: <> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/37178/ Tol-mori Tim Walker "Braithre Thar Gach Ni" _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Oriental To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net who came up with the term oriental to describe people? Jye Howard Spivey wrote: I have never understood how "Oriental" came to have a negative connotation. Just more PC BS. The word simply means "Eastern", just as "Occidental" means "Western". It never had a pejorative connotation until the 90s or so, when the PC crowd decided it was bad. It is much more descriptive than the PC term "Asian", which refers to a very wide swath of humanity. I used to hear this from the PC crowd: "Rugs are oriental. People are Asian." -----Original Message----- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com [mailto:Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 7:20 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] OMAC ? I would guess it is for the same reason that the UNCF (United Negro College Fund) hasn't change to UAACF (United African American College Fund). Victor rterry@idiom.com 06/28/2007 09:21 To PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] OMAC ? lartsresource.net > In the OMAC (Oriental Mrtial Arts College) .... Any thoughts as to why this OMAC group continues to use the term "oriental" in their name? These days that is frequently considered an offensive term. See Webster. Now before I am accused of being too PC, it is just a comment. 30 years ago and before it was commonly used, but it is not a term that you hear these days. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Oriental To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:20:35 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone, Let me apologize for that last post. I inadvertently pasted the entire page instead of the paragraph denoting the origins of the Oriental usage. The Latin usage is what I was alluding to. Oriental (adj.) is attested from c.1391, from O.Fr. oriental (12c.), from L. orientalis "of the east," from orientem. Originally in ref. to the sky, geographical sense is attested from c.1477; oriental carpet first recorded 1868 (in C.L. Eastlake). The noun meaning "native or inhabitant of the east" is from 1701. Orientalism in ref. to character, style, trait, or idiom felt to be from the Orient is from 1769. Victor Dodge --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro" To: Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:28:23 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: front stance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't stress a symmetrical front stance for raw beginners, but work on it later in their training once they have learned a bit of leg control and coordination. I'm more concerned with them having a proper fighting stance to start. Once in a while I put a grid on the mat using masking tape, kind of like an X's & O's expanded version. I have the kids start their form and they can only step on the tape. Mark Gajdostik TNT Martial Arts 503-640-8400 www.TNTma.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:34:20 -0400 (EDT) From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Lopez vs. Abdallah Controversy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yeah, maybe Abdallah should have fought a better fight but this article does make  you think "Maybe there WAS bias..." http://www.gazette.com/sports/lopez_26485___article.html/abdallah_seconds.html James Morgan GTKDA Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:39:22 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 4th PATU Juniors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The U.S. is hosting the 4th PATU Junior Pan American Taekwondo Championships, October 5-7 at the Ocean Center in Daytona Beach, Florida. Confirmed countries participating include Netherlands Antilles, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Puerto Rico and the United States' 20-member Junior National Team. There are also tentative commitments at the moment from Trinidad & Tobago, St. Kitts, American Virgin Islands, Aruba and several other members of the PATU nations. --__--__-- Message: 11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lopez vs. Abdallah Controversy Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:28:20 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hmmmm. Thought #1 How funny if there was fight and the guy all smashed up called the refs in...oh yeah real fighting does not have decisions (sorry for sarcasm) its usually easy for everyone to know the outcome. Thought #2 I believe in favoritism when earned. You need to beat the champ. Dave O. -----Original Message----- From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 3:34 pm Subject: [The_Dojang] Lopez vs. Abdallah Controversy Yeah, maybe Abdallah should have fought a better fight but this article does make? you think "Maybe there WAS bias..." http://www.gazette.com/sports/lopez_26485___article.html/abdallah_seconds.html James Morgan GTKDA Lewisburg, WV _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Bert Edens" To: Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:40:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Stances, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings... I had to laugh at this... We had a 3rd dan who was outstanding with our Little Ninjas (4-6 at our school)... For a front stance she always told them, "All ten piggly-wigglies pointing forward!" Kids responded to that very well... Teens and adults, not so much... lol :) *bows* - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas --------------------------------------------------------- "All 10 toes straight ahead! If you have 12 toes, I want them all straight ahead!" Best, Cheryl Rogers --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Misty Haji-Sheikh To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] front stance - Ap Kubbi Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:46:13 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a Texas girl, I must mention that while we don't have much snow.... sometimes we get mud! At our Dojang we teach the kids to do a front stance with their feet "wide like a semi truck not skinny like a motorcycle". Good luck, Misty On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:03 pm, Taekwondo America wrote: > Dear Mr. Clark, > > Thanks for your reply. I was most interested to read it, and your other > post with the example of pushing a car out of a snow bank. > Unfortunately, that example would be lost on most of our Texas kids, who > have never seen a snow bank in their lives and barely remember what snow > looks like from year to year. :-) However, I take your point and this is > a good explanation. > > I have seen front stances such as you describe and interestingly, my > instructor used the same logic to teach me a front stance with all ten > toes pointing forward: to generate power from the back foot into the > hips and shoulders. As far as stretching the ankles, this is another > reason we do our front stances this way: performing the front stance > with the back toes forward trains the foot to perform flexed foot > positions useful for various kicks. I know that beginners will not > always be able to do this but there are all kinds of things beginners > can't do. ;-) > > Appreciate the discussion. > > Cheryl Rogers > > Rick Clark wrote: > > Hi Cheryl, > > > > From: Taekwondo America [mailto:info@taekwondoamerica.com] > > > > "All 10 toes straight ahead! If you have 12 toes, I want them all > > straight ahead!" > > > > Cheryl Rogers > > > > >From what you wrote I am making the assumption that you are talking > > > about a > > > > front stance where all 10 toes are straight ahead. This is completely > > different than the way I was taught back in the 60's. The rear leg will > > have the toes pointed at a 45 degree angle. The front foot is at > > 12O'clock and the rear feet pointing at about 2 O'clock. > > > > The reason is that if your rear foot is at this angle you can push your > > rear leg, with force, giving you more forward "thrust" when you apply a > > technique. If you have the rear toes pointing straight ahead you will > > have a harder time to do this, in addition you will require a greater > > degree of flexibility in the ankle that many may not have. For me a front > > stance is about generating force forward, as a personal preference I > > think that the rear foot at a 45 will give me greater force. > > > > Rick Clark > > www.ao-denkou-kai.org > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Oriental To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net that was interesting. thanks. Jye Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com wrote: Hello everyone, Let me apologize for that last post. I inadvertently pasted the entire page instead of the paragraph denoting the origins of the Oriental usage. The Latin usage is what I was alluding to. Oriental (adj.) is attested from c.1391, from O.Fr. oriental (12c.), from L. orientalis "of the east," from orientem. Originally in ref. to the sky, geographical sense is attested from c.1477; oriental carpet first recorded 1868 (in C.L. Eastlake). The noun meaning "native or inhabitant of the east" is from 1701. Orientalism in ref. to character, style, trait, or idiom felt to be from the Orient is from 1769. Victor Dodge _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Headbutts Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:44:47 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick, The Korean connection with the head butt makes sense...back in 1969 at Master Y.J. Chungs Academy in Dayton Ohio every person testing for black belt had to break concrete with a headbutt to pass...I have also heard through the grapevine that headbutts are a huge part of North Korean Martial Arts...personally I like them a lot.... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Rick Clark" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Headbutts >Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:21:07 -0400 > >Hi Michel, > >I have been told that the older Korean art used to make the head butt a >specialty, pak chigi. I was told that during the occupation of Korea there >were a lot of Japanese soldiers that got their noses broken from getting to >close to a Korean. > >As a side note, I remember reading that in Scotland the most common way a >police officer was assaulted was from a head butt. > >Rick Clark >www.ao-denkou-kai.org > >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >I remember a force study being done several years ago and the headbutt >actually generated more force then any other technique.....the breakdown >was > >headbutt the most powerful, knee strike the second most, and elbow strike >the third most powerful.....this study actually included kicks of various >kinds also....the head, knee, and elbow won out over all the spinning kicks >in the study....don't ever question the power of a good head butt....I have >seen several people dropped by good head butts over the years...most of >them > >during our college Rugby parties after the games...but that's a whole >different story in it's self..... > Michael Tomlinson >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Gear up for HaloŽ 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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