Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:48:22 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #322 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages (Ronnielynchburg@aol.com) 2. Re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages (Ronnielynchburg@aol.com) 3. US Wins Silver at Close of World Poomsae Chips (The_Dojang) 4. Re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages (Ray) 5. RE: Korean martial arts Sensei ? (Joseph Cheavens) 6. Re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 7. RE: RE: Titles and Honorifics... (Michael Munyon) 8. Re: Dojo (Howard Spivey) 9. Re: Dojo (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ronnielynchburg@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 19:58:46 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] use of titles/terms in foreign languages To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net but is that wrong, or an injustice to the Korean people, or to TRUE Korean Martial Arts, Is it wrong to say "ABCD School of Korean Karate" or to address your "training hall" as a dojo? thanks in advance Sir, RB ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ronnielynchburg@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 19:52:17 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] use of titles/terms in foreign languages To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you Sir, I totally agree with what you said, I did not mean to get all of this started with me posting a comment and signing it with a title, but we teach our student at a young age about respect and all the other benefits of MA, and addressing someone in a way other than "Hey, you" or "Dude", In my opinion teaches kids to address seniors and older students with respect by using a "TITLE", but it has been to my enlightenment that I guess it does matter what the title is, Wow I guess I needed the correction, but man I never dreamed I was doing so much wrong to my students, style, art, Korea, past instructors and myself by using the wrong title. Just wondering I am currently a 5th Dan, what would an appropriate "TITLE" be should I ever elect to use one again, just so as I don't make the same mistake twice Thanks again Blankenship Red Dragon School of Korean Karate Tong Moo Kwan / Hapkido ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 18:52:10 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] US Wins Silver at Close of World Poomsae Chips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net U.S. Wins Silver at Close of WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships November 6, 2007 INCHEON, SOUTH KOREA—The United States won a silver medal on the final day of competition at the 2nd WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships on Tuesday. Dure Chang (Alaska), competing in the Female 1st Masters' division, earned a score of 7.96 for her strong performances of Ship-Jin and Ji-Tae, gaining a second-place finish behind Korea and ahead of Germany and Australia. Col. Tom Vo (California) was eliminated in the first round of the Male 2nd Masters' division. The USA finished the meet with one silver and two bronze medals, remaining the only Western Hemisphere nation to mount the winner's stand at the event. --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] use of titles/terms in foreign languages To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 19:08:41 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Is it wrong to say "ABCD School of Korean Karate" or to address your > "training hall" as a dojo? You'll get varying views on using Korean Karate. I personally like the name, even tho Karate is Japanese. So YMMV. But calling a dojang a dojo is rather strange. If you don't like dojang use studio or gym. Use dojo if you must, but be ready to explain yourself... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Joseph Cheavens To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korean martial arts Sensei ? Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:41:26 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have studied both Korean and Japanese at the university level, as well as having lived in Japan and traveled quite a bit in Korea. While I don't claim to fluent in either (especially not in Korean), the use of honorifics is usually covered in the first couple of weeks of any introductory Japanese or Korean language class. Joe Cheavens > From: Ronnielynchburg@aol.com > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 21:27:18 -0500 > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Korean martial arts Sensei ? > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Dear Joseph, > > May I ask with true respect, where & how did and do you come to that > conclusion, just so that I will know for future use, > > thank you > > > Blankenship > Red Dragon School of Korean Karate > Tong Moo Kwon / Hapkido > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailne ws --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] use of titles/terms in foreign languages To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 07:58:58 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dictionary.com states: do·jo noun, plural -jos. a school or practice hall where karate, judo, or other martial arts are taught. n.   pl. do·jos A school for training in Japanese arts of self-defense, such as judo and karate. dojo "hall in which judo is practiced," 1942, from Japanese. So, if you are teaching judo, then you are using the correct Japanese term. Otherwise, I would find a more suitable term. Mr. Dodge Ronnielynchburg@a ol.com To 11/06/2007 07:21 the_dojang@martialartsresource.net PM cc Subject Please respond to Re: [The_Dojang] use of the_dojang@martia titles/terms in foreign languages lartsresource.net but is that wrong, or an injustice to the Korean people, or to TRUE Korean Martial Arts, Is it wrong to say "ABCD School of Korean Karate" or to address your "training hall" as a dojo? thanks in advance Sir, RB ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 02:59:35 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: "Michael Munyon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Titles and Honorifics... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, Nice to see you're still around. Drop me an e-mail when you get the chance. V/r Michael Munyon www.munyondojang.com -------Original Message------- From: John Johnson Date: 11/6/2007 8:26:16 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Titles and Honorifics... Dear Thomas, et al. I have lived in Korea for the last nine years and had the extreme pleasure of being married to a Japanese woman for a while now, and I can confirm everything you stated below. As far as calling a Korean "sensei," I can't think of a worse insult to a Korean martial arts instructor. This is due to the Japanese occupation of the early 20th century and their relentless efforts to distinguish their arts from the Japanese that they stemmed from. An assistance instructor (3rd dan) are called boo-sa-bum and instructors (4th dan and above) are called sa-bum. However, if someone chooses to open their own school, they are simply called kwan-jang, or literally 'school head". You may omit the person's name when addressing them. This really helps at dinner parties and you're on your third bottle of soju and can't remember your own name, much less the guy sitting next to you. Incidentally, the ITF distinguished between other higher ranks, but the WTF, KHF, and other Korea-based organizations do not. Just my two cents... John A. JohnsonSeoul, S. KoreaIV, ITF IV, KHF> From: jthhapkido@alltel.net> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource net> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 21:07:43 -0600> Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Titles and Honorifics...> > Ray wrote:> > See the 'sensei' entry in Wikipedia for some info or other such > > similar sources. Also see the entries for 'korean honorific' or even > > 'japanese honorific' as well as just plain 'honorific'.> > Regarding the use of Sabum and Sabumnim as titles---didn't we have that> discussion awhile back? Wasn't it that the "nim" on the end (for the Korean> terms) is the actual honorific, used when addressing someone else? And use> of the root word is perfectly normal after one's own name?> > For example:> > John Smith, Sabum (when Mr. Smith signs a letter as an instructor)> and> Sabumnim Smith (when a junior student is addressing Mr. Smith, his teacher)> --or in a more strict usage, "Smith Sabumnim"> > But one would not call themselves "Sabumnim Smith," nor would one write> "John Smith Sabumnim" because one does not use the honorific to describe> themselves.> > Sabum is the title, nim the honorific. True? > > About the Japanese term---if I recall correctly, I believe Ray is completely> right. The complete term "sensei" automatically includes the honorific, and> like Ray said, it is considered arrogant in Japan (among other places) to> refer to oneself using an honorific. Something amusing and informational to> read: http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2005/12/26/sensei-and-senpai/> > > Thomas H.> > No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.22/1111 - Release Date: 11/5/2007> 4:36 AM> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook  together at last. Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033 aspx?pid=CL100626971 033 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of elephant_en.gif] --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:58:07 -0500 From: Howard Spivey Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The term "dojo" is not restricted to Judo training halls. In Japanese, it refers to a training hall for any traditional martial art. Judo, Karate, Jujutsu, Iaido and other arts all use the term. Just like "dojang" is used in Korea to refer to training halls for any of the KMA. If you have a look at the Chinese characters from which the term derives, you'll see that it means something like "place of enlightment". There's nothing that specifically refers to Judo or any other art in the characters. --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:30:44 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was trying to make a dry joke about using one definition to fit the usage of the term dojo. It would be a disservice to all of the sources of Korean martial arts techniques to say that they are owed only to Japan. Although dojo was being referred to as a japanese term for a training hall for japanese martial arts, (in lieu of dojang for Korean martial arts) the origin appears to come from China (equiv. to Chin d¨¤och¨£ng) or [Japanese d¨­j¨­ : d¨­, art; see aikido + j¨­, place (from Middle Chinese driang, trhiang).] Dojo Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Cite This Source A is a Japanese term which literally means "place of the Way". Initially, Dojo were adjunct to temples. The term can refer to a formal training place for any of the Japanese do arts but typically it is considered the formal gathering place for students of a martial arts style to conduct training, examinations and other related encounters. The concept of a dojo as a martial arts training place is a Western concept; in Japan, any physical training facility, including professional wrestling schools may be called dojos as well depending on the context. D¨­j¨­ in Zen Buddhism D¨­j¨­ is also used to describe the meditation halls where Zen Buddhists practice zazen meditation. It is sometimes used instead of the term "zendo" which is more specific, and more widely used. European Soto Zen groups affiliated with the International Zen Association prefer to use "d¨­j¨­" instead of zendo to describe their meditation halls as did their founding master, Taisen Deshimaru. howardspivey@veri zon.net To 11/07/2007 10:57 the_dojang@martialartsresource.net AM cc Subject Please respond to Re: [The_Dojang] Dojo the_dojang@martia lartsresource.net The term "dojo" is not restricted to Judo training halls. In Japanese, it refers to a training hall for any traditional martial art. Judo, Karate, Jujutsu, Iaido and other arts all use the term. Just like "dojang" is used in Korea to refer to training halls for any of the KMA. If you have a look at the Chinese characters from which the term derives, you'll see that it means something like "place of enlightment". There's nothing that specifically refers to Judo or any other art in the characters. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest