Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:26:00 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #323 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. titles (kwan jang) 2. Re: Dojo (Ronnielynchburg@aol.com) 3. RE: What should my title be? (Jeff Yeagley) 4. MDK B-day (Ray) 5. re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages (gtkda@ntelos.net) 6. Re: RE: What should my title be? (Ronnielynchburg@aol.com) 7. Re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages (Elliot Smith) 8. hapkido (J R Hilland) 9. RE: hapkido (Dennis Overall) 10. terms (freddie bishop) 11. fast track to black belt (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 12. cyber tkd (The_Dojang) 13. Lost in Translation (Scott) 14. Re: Lost in Translation (Christian Briggs) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "kwan jang" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 20:41:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] titles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KJN Blankeship writes: << Just wondering I am currently a 5th Dan, what would an appropriate "TITLE" be should I ever elect to use one again, just so as I don't make the same mistake twice>> Hello KJN Blankenship. An appropriate title for a 5th dahn running his own shool would be Kwanjang Nim. You would use the title as kwanjang when referring to yourself, and others who wish to pay you respect would add the "nim" part to this title. Warmest personal regards, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ronnielynchburg@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 19:44:37 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ahhhhhh, finally someone with some true knowledge and wisdom, thank you sir, for your input, and I do appreciate you for it, see now what is so hard about this that other folks have such a hard time accepting? Bows, Blankenship Red Dragon School of Korean Karate Tong Moo Kwon / Hapkido ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Jeff Yeagley" To: Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 19:55:35 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: What should my title be? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Just wondering I am currently a 5th Dan, what would an appropriate "TITLE" >>be should I ever elect to use one again, just so as I don't make the same mistake twice" >>Thanks again >>Blankenship >>Red Dragon School of Korean Karate >>Tong Moo Kwan / Hapkido At your rank I would expect you would already know the answer to the question. Regardless, your instructor, who promoted you to that rank, should be able to answer the question for you. Sincerely, Jeff Yeagley Academy of Fighting Arts http://www.WeTrainHarder.com --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:13:29 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK B-day Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Friday, Nov 11. Happy Birthday to the other Moo Duk Kwaners out there. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:43:51 -0500 (EST) From: gtkda@ntelos.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Blankenship SaBumNim wrote: "I totally agree with what you said, I did not mean to get all of this started with me posting a comment and signing it with a title, but we teach our student at a young age about respect and all the other benefits of MA, and addressing someone in a way other than "Hey, you" or "Dude", In my opinion teaches kids to address seniors and older students with respect by using a "TITLE", but it has been to my enlightenment that I guess it does matter what the title is, Wow I guess I needed the correction, but man I never dreamed I was doing so much wrong to my students, style, art, Korea, past instructors and myself by using the wrong title." True story.  This happened just last night.  I had a father bring his 15 year old son in to watch my class to decide whether he wanted to join or not.  After class he informed me that he did indeed want to join up and wanted to know what he should call me.  He said "Should I call you 'Master', 'Sensei', 'Dude', what?"  I told him "Definitely not 'dude'.  'Mr.' will be just fine, even though I have been called much worse by my ex-wife"....:) James Morgan GTKDA Lewisburg, WV --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ronnielynchburg@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 21:39:02 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: What should my title be? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes Sir, I agree & I thought I did, but with the vast knowledge of the people on here, it seems that THEY know better than I, so I thought what the heck, I'll ask???? Thanks for the post, Blankenship, kwanjang Red Dragon School of Korean Karate Tong Moo Kwon / Hapkido ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Elliot Smith" Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:43:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: use of titles/terms in foreign languages Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dears Sirs & Ma'ams, I agree that showing respect to others is important. In our dojang, we can study Taekwondo, Hapkido, or Judo - I am learning Hapkido. Most of our terms are in English, while more formal commands remain in Korean. We address black belts as Master Blankenship, for example. We also address other students, whether more advanced or not, as sir/ma'am. While it isn't in Korean, it is one possible way to show respect to others. Respectfully, Elliot Smith Iowa State University Hapkido --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:28:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net After being away from my computer for a week on dojang business I am just now catching up on my email. I have noticed a very strange discussion on the DD. Ray and many others have done a great job of addressing this error. As a hapkidoin, I must confess that when I hear or see the words - 'hapkido', 'dojo', and 'sensei', in all the same context, my BS alarm goes off so loud I need ear plugs. I immediately and unconsciously put that persons knowledge of this particular traditional Korean Martial Art into the 'ignore in the future' category. I know I shouldn't blame the individual completely as they were simply taught wrong, but I will. Although his or her hapkido teacher should be called to the mat (literally) for teaching such nonsense. It is indeed a disservice to the art. Ok, I feel better now. :) Cheers! JRH www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Dennis Overall To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] hapkido Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 12:55:42 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I couldn't agree with you more. Dennis Overall> From: hapkido@wah.midco.net> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:28:16 -0600> Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido> > After being away from my computer for a week on dojang business I am just> now catching up on my email. I have noticed a very strange discussion on the> DD. Ray and many others have done a great job of addressing this error. As a> hapkidoin, I must confess that when I hear or see the words - 'hapkido',> 'dojo', and 'sensei', in all the same context, my BS alarm goes off so loud> I need ear plugs. I immediately and unconsciously put that persons knowledge> of this particular traditional Korean Martial Art into the 'ignore in the> future' category. I know I shouldn't blame the individual completely as they> were simply taught wrong, but I will. Although his or her hapkido teacher> should be called to the mat (literally) for teaching such nonsense. It is> indeed a disservice to the art. Ok, I feel better now. :) Cheers! JRH> www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 13:40:11 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I trained under my Korean instructor we used the term Master, and he called himself Master, and he definitely was a Master. The name of his school was Chungs A-1 Karate, he taught Tae Kwon Do. The forms he taught were Palagae, Pinan, Nahanchi, Bassai etc. Those were the terms he used. I didn't know until much later that he used the Okinawan names of forms, weapons, karate gi, not dobok etc. He called his students by their first name and we always called him Master. He also exposed us to the arts of kendo, and judo and praying mantis kung fu. I really think that if a highly nationalistic Korean master would use Japanese terms in his Tae Kwon Do school, then maybe some folks are getting a little too bent out of shape on the whole terms issue. Fred Fred __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: [The_Dojang] fast track to black belt To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 14:44:42 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Students on fast track to black belts Aspiring PE teachers can get a first-degree black belt in the Korean martial art of tae kwon do in just one semester as part of a new class at Cal State San Bernardino. http://www.pe.com/localnews/sanbernardino/stories/PE_News_Local_B_b2spot31.1b14447.html I cannot believe what I'm reading. Who in their right mind, truly believes that ANYONE can develop all the necessary skills to become a black belt in just one semester? Shouldn't there be some way to stop this BS? --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 14:06:19 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] cyber tkd Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cyber taekwondo community out to attract members worldwide Date: November 08, 2007 Korea's Taekwondo Promotion Foundation (TPF), along with an online martial arts magazine MOOKAS, is holding a UCC video contest for Taekwondo enthusiasts under the theme of "I Love Taekwondo." The contest aims to increase interest in taekwondo by sharing personal experiences and feelings about the sport, a TPF official said. The event comes one month before the official opening of a taekwondo community website TAGORA, a word made by joining a "T" for taekwondo to the Greek word "agora," which means public square. The website opens on Dec. 10 and is intended to be a cyber gathering place for the exchange of opinions, feelings and information about taekwondo, the TPF official said. Participants are requested to submit 30-second to five-minute clips containing any kind of taekwondo experiences, such as practice sessions or competitions, to www.tagora.kr from Nov. 10 to Dec. 10. A total of 35 winners will be announced through the hompages of TPF (www.tpf.kr) and TAGORA on Dec. 15. TPF was established in July 2005 under the aim of improving and developing the global position of taekwondo by building and managing a taekwondo park, and promoting taekwondo to contribute to the national development. According to TPF, a 2 million-square-meter taekwondo park will be established in Muju, North Jeolla Province by 2013. Organizers hope that the park becomes a mecca for taekwondo's estimated 60 million practitioners from 187 nations, TPF explained. Korea's Ministry of Culture and Tourism helped establish TPF. For more information about the organization or the UCC contest, please contact a TPF official at 82-2-777-3631 (from overseas) or (02) 777-3631 (in Korea). --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:21:38 -0500 From: Scott To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Lost in Translation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to exit lurker mode to pose a two part question to the group, to see if anyone has additional knowledge. Let me preface by saying that I am not trying to point out anything to anyone or to have any discussion on what people call their schools or themselves. This is just a bit of knowledge that was passed on to me a long time ago and I was looking for verification. In fact this might be completely off topic for this group but I think that there are enough learned people here to have some insight. Part one is a long time ago, (maybe 10 or more years) I was pointedly informed by my instructor that Koreans do not believe in dragons. They don't reference them in names or use them as symbols because they beleave that they are imaginary. They in turn prefer to reference Tigers as their preferred creature for names and symbols. As a tiger is a real creature and the largest land predator. As it was told to me (are you ready for the irony of this statement) "that means they are using a symbol that will supply true power not imagined power like the Chinese dragons." Does this correspond to any Korean customs that any of you have seen living there? The second question is in regards to language. As my wife speaks several languages it has become interesting for me to dig into the origins of some words. We have had long discussions on how the word "computer" is REALLY pronounced. (No I have not won that one either.) However one word with a particular interesting background is Red. In Russian the word for red has two separate meanings. In modern Russian the word for red means the color. However in the original or old Russian the same word actually meant "beautiful" or "marvelous" we don't have an exact translation for it in English. However when translated to English the new Russian is always used thus what we call "Red Square" was actually named "Beautiful or Marvelous Square". It was our translation of the word that changed the meaning. Similarly from books read and Chinese people I have talked to Chinese dragons were never referred to by colors. In fact descriptions of them always describe them as multicolored, incandescent or shimmering. It wasn't until the kung-fu and ninja movie era here in the US that names like "Red Dragon society" or the "Red lotus" became known. Hence my interest in the idea that perhaps the Chinese word for Red was also mistranslated into English, as the "Marvelous Dragon" or the "Beautiful Lotus" fits much more with how I have been told people from those areas would describe and name things. Anyone have any insight? Scott --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Christian Briggs" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lost in Translation Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 14:41:18 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I listened to an online lecture regarding the history of Korean dragons...and how they believed (in a mythology sense I am sure) them to reside in mountains and rivers. Even going on to discuss the different types of dragons regarding intelligence. Pretty interesting actually.... -Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" To: Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Lost in Translation > Just wanted to exit lurker mode to pose a two part question to the group, > to see if anyone has additional knowledge. > > Let me preface by saying that I am not trying to point out anything to > anyone or to have any discussion on what people call their schools or > themselves. This is just a bit of knowledge that was passed on to me a > long time ago and I was looking for verification. In fact this might be > completely off topic for this group but I think that there are enough > learned people here to have some insight. > > Part one is a long time ago, (maybe 10 or more years) I was pointedly > informed by my instructor that Koreans do not believe in dragons. They > don't reference them in names or use them as symbols because they beleave > that they are imaginary. They in turn prefer to reference Tigers as their > preferred creature for names and symbols. As a tiger is a real creature > and the largest land predator. As it was told to me (are you ready for > the irony of this statement) "that means they are using a symbol that will > supply true power not imagined power like the Chinese dragons." > > Does this correspond to any Korean customs that any of you have seen > living there? > > The second question is in regards to language. As my wife speaks several > languages it has become interesting for me to dig into the origins of some > words. We have had long discussions on how the word "computer" is REALLY > pronounced. (No I have not won that one either.) However one word with a > particular interesting background is Red. > In Russian the word for red has two separate meanings. In modern Russian > the word for red means the color. However in the original or old Russian > the same word actually meant "beautiful" or "marvelous" we don't have an > exact translation for it in English. However when translated to English > the new Russian is always used thus what we call "Red Square" was actually > named "Beautiful or Marvelous Square". It was our translation of the word > that changed the meaning. > Similarly from books read and Chinese people I have talked to Chinese > dragons were never referred to by colors. In fact descriptions of them > always describe them as multicolored, incandescent or shimmering. It > wasn't until the kung-fu and ninja movie era here in the US that names > like "Red Dragon society" or the "Red lotus" became known. Hence my > interest in the idea that perhaps the Chinese word for Red was also > mistranslated into English, as the "Marvelous Dragon" or the "Beautiful > Lotus" fits much more with how I have been told people from those areas > would describe and name things. > > Anyone have any insight? > Scott > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest