Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:48:21 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #324 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Lost in Translation (Ray) 2. Re: terms (Ray) 3. terms (J R Hilland) 4. Dragons and other stuff (JR West) 5. korean dragons (Mike Donahoo) 6. Re: Titles and black belt time (sidtkd@aol.com) 7. RE: Dragons and other stuff (michael tomlinson) 8. Re: fast track to black belt (cannon.jeff@comcast.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lost in Translation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 14:40:08 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Part one is a long time ago, (maybe 10 or more years) I was pointedly > informed by my instructor that Koreans do not believe in dragons. They > don't reference them in names or use them as symbols because they > beleave that they are imaginary. They in turn prefer to reference Tigers > as their preferred creature for names and symbols. As a tiger is a real > creature and the largest land predator. As it was told to me (are you > ready for the irony of this statement) "that means they are using a > symbol that will supply true power not imagined power like the Chinese > dragons." Korean culture does hold the tiger in high regard, but not sure about the dragon part... Here is a lecture from the Korea Society on dragons in Korean folklore; http://www.koreasociety.org/arts/gallery/the_meaning_of_dragons_in_korean_folklore.html Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] terms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 14:46:04 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... I really think that > if a highly nationalistic Korean master would use > Japanese terms in his Tae Kwon Do school, ... So he left Korea and came to live in the US. He used Japanese terms instead of Korean terms. He taught Korean, Japanese and Chinese martial arts. It seems maybe he was more capitalistic than nationalistic. When in Rome and all that... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:19:32 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<...I really think that if a highly nationalistic Korean master would use Japanese terms in his Tae Kwon Do school, then maybe some folks are getting a little too bent out of shape on the whole terms issue. Fred Fred>>> As an American, if you heard countless first person horror stories (at the dojang over a couple of decades), of how the Japanese abused countless children (and adults) during the most recent Japanese occupation of Korea, you most likely would be singing a different tune. JRH www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "JR West" To: Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:10:40 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dragons and other stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Saying that the Koreans do not believe in Dragons is not really true.....One of the most famous military units in modern Korean history is the ROK Marine"Blue Dragon" division which excelled in Vietnam along with the "Tiger" and "White Horse" divisions. As far as terminology is concerned, during the Korean invasion in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Japanese arts were firmly established and the terms "gi", "dojo" and the belt colors like brown, purple and yellow were used by the Koreans because it was something that we were used to hearing and seeing. They drew the line at "sensei" and I have seen more than one of the more senior Korean instructors bristle at the "S" word when it was applied to them, even with respect. I once asked why and was told that they viewed it as a racial slur, especially since WWII was only 25 years into the rear view mirror at the time. When I came up, the only belt colors were white, blue, red and black and were used because of the colors of the Korean flag. Marketing has driven many to add all sorts of colors to that, regardless of the origins of those colors.....I guess green is good regardless! --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 15:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Donahoo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] korean dragons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir, I know that Yongin University located in Yongin, Korea uses a dragon as the school mascot. Yongin University has been around in one location or another and under one name or another since sometime in the 1950's. Not exactly sure. I believe they started as the Korean Yudo College. I don't know if they have always used the dragon as a mascot or if that is a recent development. On the topic of tigers, I was once told that dreaming of a white tiger was a sign of good luck or fortune. Don't know how much of that is true either... In devotion to the Art, Mike Donahoo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:19:34 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Titles and black belt time Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I refer to myself by the title of "Mister" because I live in the United States. I will refer to myself as "Master" when Asians use American titles. As for duration of time it takes to become black belt, in Korea kids in high school usually take from 1-1 1/2 years to make black belt. I don't understand what the sanctimony is all about. It seems we spend so much time trying to find "just the right way" to do things while resisting any regulation at all on a national level. I know I'm a black sheep but geez...let's lighten up a bit. Sid ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: michael tomlinson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Dragons and other stuff Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 00:24:52 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dang I love it when GM West speaks up and gives us some good info on history and Hapkido origins....thank you sir...reading your posts always gives me a boost continuing down the path I've chosen to follow!! Michael Tomlinson > From: hapkido@netdoor.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 17:10:40 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Dragons and other stuff > > Saying that the Koreans do not believe in Dragons is not really true.....One > of the most famous military units in modern Korean history is the ROK > Marine"Blue Dragon" division which excelled in Vietnam along with the > "Tiger" and "White Horse" divisions. As far as terminology is concerned, > during the Korean invasion in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Japanese > arts were firmly established and the terms "gi", "dojo" and the belt colors > like brown, purple and yellow were used by the Koreans because it was > something that we were used to hearing and seeing. They drew the line at > "sensei" and I have seen more than one of the more senior Korean instructors > bristle at the "S" word when it was applied to them, even with respect. I > once asked why and was told that they viewed it as a racial slur, especially > since WWII was only 25 years into the rear view mirror at the time. When I > came up, the only belt colors were white, blue, red and black and were used > because of the colors of the Korean flag. Marketing has driven many to add > all sorts of colors to that, regardless of the origins of those colors.....I > guess green is good regardless! > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct --__--__-- Message: 8 From: cannon.jeff@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] fast track to black belt Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:37:44 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is my first posting, and I must humbly agree with Mr. Dodge. I recently received my Cho Dan (in April), which took me a little more than 3 and a half years. In our school (Tang Soo Do), it takes quite a while given the required Gup belt rank promotions, the forms and other curriculum required, the perseverance, self discipline, personal development that must be displayed over time, etc. Also, if you are injured, or otherwise not able to test, you wait until you are able to test again. (I am in my 50's and believe me, as I approached black belt, the training was much harder than early gup training, and my body felt it). And, our school schedules black belt tests twice each year (in April and October). The testing lasts three days. There are typically a few here and there who might receive double promotions at the middle to early Gup level, but this is rare and at the complete discretion of our Kwan Jang. While I think it might be technically possible to learn the required physical skills in 20 weeks or so, (maybe training 12 hours a day, every day for that 20 weeks), I would think that these "one semester black belts" might be technically adequate, but spiritually and mentally inadequate to the task. Unless I have missed the point, you are a black belt even when you are not wearing the belt. I would doubt you could fully appreciate this in 5 months. My apologies for such a long post Tang Soo!! Jeff (Humble Cho Dan) -------------- Original message -------------- From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com > Students on fast track to black belts > Aspiring PE teachers can get a first-degree black belt in the Korean > martial art of tae kwon do in just one semester as part of a new class at > Cal State San Bernardino. > > http://www.pe.com/localnews/sanbernardino/stories/PE_News_Local_B_b2spot31.1b144 > 47.html > > I cannot believe what I'm reading. Who in their right mind, truly believes > that ANYONE can develop all the necessary skills to become a black belt in > just one semester? > Shouldn't there be some way to stop this BS? > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest