Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 02:48:22 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #328 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Training over 50 (tburgh@bellsouth.net) 2. Re: Studying TKD and HKD at the same time. (masterm1) 3. over 50 and still training (Don Kirsch) 4. RE: TKD and HKD at the same time (J R Hilland) 5. Training over 50 (Lois Knorr) 6. World TKD Juniors in Co Spgs (The_Dojang) 7. Looking for traditional TKD school in Colorado Springs. (James O'Connor) 8. RE: over 50 and still training (Joseph Cheavens) 9. RE: RE: TKD and HKD at the same time (michael tomlinson) 10. tkd and hkd (freddie bishop) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: tburgh@bellsouth.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 03:52:18 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Training over 50 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You can count me among the over 50 crowd (52). I have had the honor of training for 9 years under GM J. R. West, and what "fun" it's been. Sure I don't heal so fast anymore, and some of my joints don't work too well now, but I wouldn't take anything for my martial arts journey. There have been many memorable moments along the way, and the fact that this is a journey that me and my son began together makes it even more priceless. I know that one day my body will say WHOA!, but I guarantee you my heart won't know it. Robert Thornburgh --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Studying TKD and HKD at the same time. Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:52:02 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye I studied three phases of Taekwondo Chungdokwan Kicho Ilbo and some Peian old forms I can't remember now. I remember that one of my instructors got stationed in Vietnam started teaching learned the Chang Hon Hyungs and our school split because of it. That all changed again when I joined the military and learned the Taegeuk poomse and brought that back to my old school. Some students wanted to learn them but our old masters thought The WTF it was crap and we had a split again. Trying to switch on and off sinewave incorporating walking stance and changing the way even basic blocks were done. Changing from point sparring to Olympic sparring. Those were hard transitions just in Tae Kwon-Do. Now we start with Hapkido. My Korean Taekwondo master got sick with some kind of parasites in his eyes and was nearly blind so me and a couple of seniors were asked to go through his desk and bring some of his important papers to his home and along with his Taekwondo Certificates we found a weird certificate that said 7th Dan Hapkido so when he recovered we asked him to teach us he refused many times but we were persistent and he said ok but we were all blackbelts and we had to swore we would not quit. What a mistake we made. Everyday after two hours of brutal Taekwondo class he taught us one hour of rolling, falling, cartwheels, single finger and wrist pushup, finger, wrist and arm twisting exercises, handstands and popup drills lay on your back and put your hands behind your head and try to jump up, we would kneel down and try to pop up on your feet. A lot of sprained toes after that. He taught us mostly low kicks All that on a thinly matted concrete floor. His main emphasis was not so much to learn specific techniques but to use your body weight against your opponents extended limb once you caught it or you were grabbed, he tried to teach us to make our opponent help throw himself, his Hapkido was pinching flesh and finger breaks. It really was like just a bunch of dirty tricks thrown together. I only did this for 8 months and he would not promote in Hapkido only Taekwondo. I did not see Hapkido again until I was stationed in Korea at Osan maybe fifteen years later I met the Base instructor He had just broken away from The IHF his movement was like Steven Seagal and some of his students were not happy but they paid a lot of money so they stayed but advised me not to join. I visited his class he really put a hurting on his students to show me how superior his technique was. He looked at what I new and insulted my old teacher and said I show pay him a huge membership fee to prove I was serious and then he could correct my mistakes. I went to the Kuksool Kido Hae school the masters mother was the manager he was henpecked she kept interrupting and finally he said he did not think I could be promoted to blackbelt without special permission so I was asked to just train anyway after paying a huge membership fee. So I left. I went to To Kung Moo Sul but the symbol on the certificates and tee shirt looked like the Nazi Vulture clawing the world and I sent t shirt to my wife and she said this will frighten kids. I went back to my Hotel depressed after weeks of failed efforts and I spoke to the desk clerk about it and he said the guy across the street that ran the t shirt shop was a Hapkido master so I was introduced and a half hour later a cab showed up and I met my Hapkido master he say what I learned was a village style taught years ago during The Sameul association period what ever that mean before Hapkido regulated by The Korea Hapkido Federation. I told him about my Taekwondo training and that I want to test for Black Belt before I left Korea so I could teach he said on problem but with three conditions: 1 I could not do any other martial art while I trained at his school so I could become a true practioner. 2 I had to train 3 hrs, 5days a week and make three classes on Saturday. Go mountain hiking every Sunday. 3 I had to swear never to mix Hapkido technique with any other martial and to teach it in it's purest form as I learned it in his school. I agreed and began to learn this system which was about memorization of thousands of techniques Ho sin Sul taught specific order or by the numbers. These techniques were taught in this fashion wrist grab, lower sleeve grab, upper sleeve grab, shoulder grab. Each in this exact order block, strike, twist, throw, kick, punch, lock, roll and counterattack. This burned a whole in my brain because he would teach me ten to twenty techniques a night and then have maybe 3 to 5 instructors drill me between the regular classes Saturday was review day and the last hour was a mock test of whatever they wanted to see. On the third Saturday of every month everyone under his authority tested you stud in straight lines in order and randomly sometimes with a partner sometimes without if you made a mistake or ranout of techniques you sat down if you passed you got a stripe on your belt if you made a mistake you got nothing. After about six months my brain became accustom to this routine and it improved mental capacity to absorb anything, and I looked at self defense completely differently. Hapkido had no real basics I have know idea what I am going to do just do it and something effective comes out because Hapkido is a computation of all techniques. Taekwondo was based on practicing basically 12 techniques that you practiced until you were faster and more accurate you could imagine: front, side, and roundhouse kicks, high, middle and low blocks, front, back and sitting stance high, middle and low punch. I had always learned one technique kill a good hard roundhouse would knock out anybody.After 1 year I felt my 20 years of Taekwondo was slipping away. I was able to stay for six more months and I tested for my Black Belt the only American in a sea of Koreans Being a 6'1' black guy you can imagine how I stuck out. At the test my instructor said do it and I put myself in that frame of mind and I did everything even though I don't speak Korean. So now I teach ITF I put on my ITF uniform I teach WTF I put on my WTF uniform, I teach KHF I put on my KHF uniform and I put on that frame of mind The hardest thing to remember is you have to bow differently for each art. Well From one 26 yr retired USAF vet with verbal diarrhea Happy Veterans Day MasterM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Studying TKD and HKD at the same time. If anyone has studied TKD and HKD at the same time, have you ever run into conflicts of how things are done? or do they complement each other? For instance, I studied a CMA and TKD and it was apples and oranges. They didn't complement each other. Jye __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:59:36 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] over 50 and still training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I guess I'll throw my two cents into this subject...next month I'll reach that half way point in life, 52, ( I'm not sure I want to go much past 104 ). Been training steady for the last 32 years and still train most every day and teach private lessons and seminars on a regular basis. Once I retire from my regular job (can't wait to get that last kid out of the house) I plan on living the "good life", LOL, like you guys who are fortunate to teach for a living. Regards, Don Kirsch "Learning without thought is labor lost; Thought without learning is perilous." --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:46:43 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD and HKD at the same time Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Studied both from white belt through 4th dan. Didn't pursue rank past 4th dan in TKD for several reasons. I found the other ki arts and traditional weapon arts complimented hapkido due to the similarities in theories of motion (specifically - daito-ryu aikijujitsu, judo, kenjutsu and taichi). All traditional martial arts are going to have different theories of basic motion and general theories of motion. Some are going to have common characteristics, others are not. As a hapkido 6th dan, 50 is just around the corner. JRH Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:16:31 -0500 (EST) From: Lois Knorr To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Training over 50 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am a 57 year-old grandmother with a heart condition and chronic tendonitis in my left shoulder. I badly re-injured the shoulder over two years ago and am slowly getting to the point now where I can use it (carefully) for most on my training. I was invited to test for my second dan this fall, but requested more healing (and retraining) time. My major challenge with training is to use restraint so I can come back to train in the next class LOL. Thank you to all you veterans out there for posting -- it gives us young folk inspiration. Lois Knorr --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:32:35 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] World TKD Juniors in Co Spgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net World TKD Junior Championships Open Slated for Jan. 5-6 in Colorado Springs The 2008 World Junior Championships Open will take place at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, Colo., on January 5-6, 2008. The event is the first step in selecting the team that will represent the U.S. at the 2008 WTF World Junior Championships in Izmir, Turkey, May 8-11. All black belt athletes aged 14-17 years old are eligible to compete in the event. The TOP 4 athletes, per gender, in the 10 weight categories will advance to Phase #2 - the 2008 World Junior Championships Team Trial Fight-Off in Des Moines, Iowa, on April 4, 2008. Room and board at the Olympic Training Center is $40 a night, but register early as bed space is limited to 180 athletes and coaches on a first come, first served basis. USA Taekwondo has also arranged for a group rate of $79 at the DoubleTree Hotel, Colorado Springs-World Arena, which offers complimentary parking as well as complementary shuttle service to and from the Colorado Springs Airport. To make your hotel reservations please call (719) 576-8900. Registration Packet and Information; http://usa-taekwondo.us/WJCOpen_AthleteRegPacket.pdf --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: James O'Connor Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:49:26 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Looking for traditional TKD school in Colorado Springs. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, I'm looking for a school in Colorado Springs, CO that teaches Taekwondo as a combat art with occasional chances to compete Background. I did Taekwondo (Taeguek forms, WTF sparring) with an emphasis on self-defense and not much focus on competition (although a few tournaments as they came along). I did this for two years before moving to a new state. Hear I started taking Hapkido with some mix-in from Taekwondo, Muy Thai, BJJ, and a few others; string focus on self-defense and art; no competition. After a year and a half, I've left that school and would like to return to a a Taekwondo focus with emphasis on self-defense but with changes to compete maybe once or twice a year. Any suggestions? Thanks Jay --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Joseph Cheavens To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] over 50 and still training Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:23:32 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm only 41, but I plan on continuing training, at least in some way, until the day I die. FWIW, one of the instructors at our school (Relson Gracie Jiu Jitsu Academy of Austin), Richard Giberson, just got his black belt last month from Relson and he's in his mid '50s. He was a college wrestler and college wrestling coach and has done judo since the '80s and is a total inspiration for us sligthly less than young guys, since he can wear out pretty much all of the the young guys in the class with his warm-ups and dominate all of us on the mat. Joe Cheavens > From: donkirsch@msn.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:59:36 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] over 50 and still training > > I guess I'll throw my two cents into this subject...next month I'll reach that > half way point in life, 52, ( I'm not sure I want to go much past 104 ). Been > training steady for the last 32 years and still train most every day and teach > private lessons and seminars on a regular basis. Once I retire from my regular > job (can't wait to get that last kid out of the house) I plan on living the > "good life", LOL, like you guys who are fortunate to teach for a living. > Regards, Don Kirsch > > "Learning without thought is labor lost; Thought without learning is > perilous." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --__--__-- Message: 9 From: michael tomlinson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD and HKD at the same time Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:51:00 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere hit it right on the head IMHO... I studied TKD and HKD together for a while.. I used to study TKD at one Dojang and as soon as class was over I would literally hop in my car and drive about 4 to 5 miles to another Dojang just in time to make the HKD night class at that school. I did that three nights a week and also on Saturday morning for about a year..Now..don't go crazy on me TKD guys..but the basic movement and philosophy of attacks are very very different in the two arts...I ended up dedicating myself to HKD only...that was in 1988 and I've never looked back....both HKD and TKD are great arts....but they are very different from each other once you get past the rudimentary aspects.... Michael Tomlinson > From: hapkido@wah.midco.net > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:46:43 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD and HKD at the same time > > << into conflicts of how things are done? or do they complement each other?>>> > > Studied both from white belt through 4th dan. Didn't pursue rank past 4th > dan in TKD for several reasons. I found the other ki arts and traditional > weapon arts complimented hapkido due to the similarities in theories of > motion (specifically - daito-ryu aikijujitsu, judo, kenjutsu and taichi). > All traditional martial arts are going to have different theories of basic > motion and general theories of motion. Some are going to have common > characteristics, others are not. As a hapkido 6th dan, 50 is just around the > corner. JRH > > Jere R. Hilland > www.rrhapkido.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:17:50 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] tkd and hkd Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't know why you would want to study both arts! If I had a choice I would drop Tae Kwon Do and go with Hapkido. I think Hapkido offers a broader range of techniques than does Tae Kwon Do. Today, Tae Kwon Do instructors include some sort of "self defense" routines or responses that derive from Judo/Yudo, and Hapkido, and in my part of the country, the quality varies widely in the presentation of the techniques of Hapkido and Yudo. Hapkido, with its yielding philosophy of combat, would seem to be more defendable in a court of law. I think thats something to think about. The Tae Kwon Do I learned was mostly offense and not much defense. My instructor always said you should use your TKD for defense only, after the other guy makes the first move. Then, blast them with everything you have. I think Hapkido offers an alternative to blood and guts defense. Fred __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest