Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:02:00 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #334 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,200 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Pressure points (Eric Deveau) 2. re Gongkwon (Bob Banham) 3. RE: Pressure points (Rick Clark) 4. Re: Shin, Jae Chul Question (Vernon Noble) 5. RE: Pressure points (Paul Nowak) 6. Re: Gong Kwon Yusul video (J Hazen) 7. Re: Shin, Jae Chul Question (Ray) 8. Re: Pressure points (Ray) 9. J. C. Shin, et al (sooupja@adelphia.net) 10. Gong Kwon Yusul (Howard Spivey) 11. Re: "50 and still on the mat" (Cmoserkma@aol.com) 12. Re: J. C. Shin, et al (Ray) 13. Re: "50 and still on the mat" (James O'Connor) 14. Re: "50 and still on the mat" (Cmoserkma@aol.com) 15. Gongkwon Yusul (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Eric Deveau To: Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:52:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pressure points Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Doug,> Try marc tedeschi's books---good stuff The book to get is "Essential Anatomy for Healing and Martial Arts" Marc Tedeshi Excellent reference material book Check the Borders and similar stores sometimes you can run across them on the sale table overstock etc and catch a good deal. Get a hold of Master Mark Gridley by Milwaukee protectionarts@aol.com he is running the Anatomical Targeting Strategies program and can help you out with that. Congratulations on your progress Master Eric _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.  Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971 033 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:53:06 -0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] re Gongkwon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net They also have a Facebook page. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of Bob Banham.vcf] --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 05:08:34 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Pressure points To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Doug, There is someone else you may want to have a look at, and I hate to be self-serving. But I have done several books, one has been published in Spanish, Portuguese, and French. Currently I am in Ireland just finishing up 2.5 weeks of seminars and previously I was in Germany and Belgium. Plans are being made now for me to teach in France. I have been publishing on pressure points for a while (I think my first article was in 89). So I have been teaching and writing on this subject for a while. I have made a HiDef DVD in the UK last year that I think has very good production values, and is quite clear for showing pressure points http://www.summersdale.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=204&osCsid=u2ans7ji71c g77rfmnbng41lt3 is the web site for DVD. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:59:11 -0500 From: Vernon Noble To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Shin, Jae Chul Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >> To say that either of these two men had been sent to the U.S. in order to >> push TSD is a stretch. >> > > Well, no. We know that Hwang Kee sent CS Kim to the US in, as I recall, > about 1972. No question there. HC Hwang came later in about 1974. And > of course JC Shin in 1968. > > In the days before the web and the internet, I recall those were confusing > times (1969-75) as we didn't know who was the official US rep of Hwang Kee. > Was there one? Two? Three? Or perhaps someone senior to all of them like > JJ Kim? > > Yes, others came before, but we have not heard of these others being > specifically sent by Hwang Kee as was CS Kim and probably JC Shin. > > The question is what happened to Hwang Kee wanting JC Shin to lead TSD in the > US and then shortly thereafter CS Kim? Only to then be followed up by HC Hwang? > Were they not doing what Hwang Kee wanted? Did they break off from Hwang > Kee once arriving here? Or were they just sent by Hwang Kee to help pave the > way for HC Hwang? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > Mr. Terry, At the time in question, I was training with Master Jeong Sook Lee, who was also part of this equation. I also was with Master Kim for many, many years. As I understand things, Master Shin was sent by Grandmaster Hwang Kee, who sponsored Master Kim to come to the U.S. I have also heard that Mr. Norris had a hand in Master Shin's arrival. Master Hwang arrived later, sent by the Grandmaster. Master Shin formed his organization when he was not satisfied with the way the USTSDMDK was formed. As with any organization, there was a lot of politicking involved. The three main Korean Instructors(after Master Shin's departure) were: Master Hwang, Master Kim, and Master Lee (who was brought aboard from Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan). There were also American Instructors who came from the Osan influence. These gentleman had a lesser role than did the Koreans. No surprise there. These were great men undertaking an impossible job of keeping things together. Money was a factor. Ego was a factor. Deceit was a factor. Non- communication was a factor. Anyway, things fell apart, and they went their own ways. I hope that the spirit of the Moo Duk Kwan continues in all of the second generation students of these great men. We need to get along, even though we have been separated. Will there ever be a unification?? I think not. There are too many people and philosophies involved, but we can recognize our roots, and conduct ourselves as the MDK should. Respectfully, Vernon Noble --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Paul Nowak" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Pressure points Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:15:50 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You might be interested in the Black Arts Society. The founder is Gus Michalik. He has several associated schools in the U.S. and Canada. This style combines Hapkido, Jujitsu and Kenpo with pressure points, and is a modern combative art. You will get all the information you can handle from G.M. Michalik, he holds nothing back!! www.black-arts-society.com Paul Nowak Head Instructor Defensive Edge Personal Protection Systems 905.407.0220 www.defensiveedgetraining.com >From: "Dugy" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Pressure points >Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:54:57 -0500 > >I've found that pressure points to be a good addition to my martial arts >study. I'm looking for help in finding the right "master". I have books & >dvds >(seminar) by Dillman but the dvds location of where to strike are often >hidden >and not well laid out...the books are ok but I'm really looking for a good >teacher, and even better, a school. I've also purchased books by Lyons >recently which is a good addition. I'm studying Dim Mak too and a few >other >like the White Crane system.. yet I can't get enough.. Does anyone know of >other sources?? If the cds don't get better, then I'd like to attend >classes.... You can email me too. >Regards, Doug >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,200 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:03:18 -0800 (PST) From: J Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gong Kwon Yusul video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Fri, 16 Nov 2007, Mike Donahoo had this to say: MD: Has anyone on the list actually seen one of the Gong Kwon classes or MD: there curriculum? It looks very interesting but I couldn't find MD: anyone in the USA that teaches or has a full academy. It looks like it's barely made its way out of Korea and into Australia: http://www.bullshido.org/martialarts/Gong_Kwon_Yu_Sul http://gongkwon.com/eng/board/gallery_view.asp?bcode=NewsG&no=7 http://www.gongkwon.com/eng/index.htm I don't really know anything about it other than what I've just googled. ~ Jeff --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Shin, Jae Chul Question To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:03:16 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > At the time in question, I was training with Master Jeong Sook Lee, > who was also part of this equation. I also was with Master Kim for many, > many years. Good info. Thanks. Where were you and Jeong Sook Lee located back then? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Pressure points To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 09:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ... This > style combines Hapkido, Jujitsu and Kenpo with pressure points, and is a > modern combative art. Not sure about Kenpo, but Hapkido and Jujitsu already have pressure points, so not sure how pressure points get combined into something where they already exist. Marketing ploy perhaps... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:13:07 -0800 From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] J. C. Shin, et al Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, yes. There are Korean instructors that will tell you that they were sent to the States by the Kwan Jang Nim but none of them were. J. C. Shin’s immigration to the U.S. was sponsored by Chuck Norris and Shin arranged for C. S. Kim’s immigration. All three of these men had trained with Kim Song Ki at Osan AFB. The Charter Convention was the result of many requests by TSD Moo Duk Kwan Instructors throughout the U.S. J. C. Shin must be given credit for arranging this meeting but was apparently disappointed in its results. I have observed that many instructors are interested in their control over others and the money they can receive from them. I’m surprised at how few understand or care about the Democratic process and I’m not just talking about foreigners. Although a dictatorship may be the most efficient form of government we all know the problems it creates. T. Mason U.S. S.B.D. M.D.K. Federation --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:24:56 -0500 From: Howard Spivey To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gong Kwon Yusul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You might want to check out the Hapkido Forum website. There are a couple of threads there about this art. I'm pretty sure they were started by an Australian fellow who either went to Korea and trained in this art, or trained in it in Australia under a Korean instructor, or both. J Hazen wrote: > On Fri, 16 Nov 2007, Mike Donahoo had this to say: > > MD: Has anyone on the list actually seen one of the Gong Kwon classes or > MD: there curriculum? It looks very interesting but I couldn't find > MD: anyone in the USA that teaches or has a full academy. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Cmoserkma@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:00:06 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "50 and still on the mat" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The part of my last e-mail that Jack LeClair "can remember most of the techniques he's been taught (even his forms) was actually an inside joke. I am about to turn 53 myself and was playing a joke on a fellow student (I train with). Mr. LeClair is actually very good and I depend on him to help me at times with techniques in hapkido. It's true that he is 54 years old and has a third degree black belt in tkd and trains in hkd and will be ranking up pretty soon even though he is recovering (and quite quickly for someone his age) from knee surgery. Someone asked how many were over 50 and ranks 4th dan & higher. If everything goes well, I may be testing for my 6th dan in March in tkd under Master Song Chol. I have a blue belt in hapkido also with an excellent instructor, Mr. Tuan Nguyen. This one is sincere, Carolyn Moser-Klos ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] J. C. Shin, et al To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have observed that many instructors are interested in their control over > others and the money they can receive from them. I’m surprised at how few > understand or care about the Democratic process and I’m not just talking > about foreigners. Although a dictatorship may be the most efficient form of > government we all know the problems it creates. Well said. Unfortunately Hwang Kee didn't feel that way when he did not get control over the unified kwans. When the kwans were going to unite he was all for it, a strong backer of the movement, but he thought that since the MDK was the largest kwan he should be put in charge. That didn't happen so he pulled out, causing the MDK to split even tho most MDK members voted in favor of kwan unification. Sadly a split that is still present today in the MDK family. Re JC Shin being sponsored by Chuck Norris... Hwang Kee could not sponsor anyone into the US, so it is good that Carlos, aka Chuck, was able to get Shin into the country for Hwang Kee. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: James O'Connor Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "50 and still on the mat" Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:35:10 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Nov 17, 2007, at 2:00 PM, Cmoserkma@aol.com wrote: > The part of my last e-mail that Jack LeClair "can remember most of the > techniques he's been taught (even his forms) was actually an inside > joke. I am > about to turn 53 myself and was playing a joke on a fellow student > (I train > with). Mr. LeClair is actually very good and I depend on him to > help me at > times with techniques in hapkido. It's true that he is 54 years > old and has a > third degree black belt in tkd and trains in hkd and will be > ranking up pretty > soon even though he is recovering (and quite quickly for someone > his age) > from knee surgery. Someone asked how many were over 50 and ranks > 4th dan & > higher. If everything goes well, I may be testing for my 6th dan > in March in tkd > under Master Song Chol. I have a blue belt in hapkido also with an > excellent instructor, Mr. Tuan Nguyen. > > This one is sincere, > Carolyn Moser-Klos Just wanted to say that this whole thread has been very inspirational for this 38 yo color belt in TKD and Hapkido who's been doing it for only three and a half years and sometimes wonders if he started too old Take care, Jay --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Cmoserkma@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:56:40 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "50 and still on the mat" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jay, Thank you for your letter. Anyone who stays in martial arts over two years are most likely to continue to make it for their lifetime especially if you love it (tkd & hkd). I have been teaching tkd for almost 21 years and I am always proud of the students who wants to stay with it for the long haul. It is truly worth it. Your age is perfect, in fact I was in my competition mode at your age until I was told by my master to stop competing and concentrate on training my students (when I was forty). The only reason was at 40 I was operating my own school. But you don't have to slow down even if you've stopped competing. And I have seen some over forty y.o. competitors who were really quite impressive. Make it your goal that as you get older, you get stronger and faster in the arts even when you reach 60+ even 80's. That is what I aim for. Even after one acl repair on my right knee (twenty years ago), my kick is still there. What's more important, I'm not the only one. I've met more martial artists who conquer much much more than a knee repair. You can do what ever you have in your heart to do!!!! Best regards to you, your instructor, and everyone involved with you in your conquest in martial arts. Sincerely, Carolyn Moser-Klos ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 15 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:58:01 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gongkwon Yusul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Checking the website gongkwon.com... For the low low rate of $500 US, if you have a blackbelt in any "sport", in only 6 to 10 days of training... training from 7:30PM to 10:00PM (with a 30 min break in there somewhere), [I'm getting tired just thinking about it] you can become a certifed instructor of Gongkwon Yusul. But wait! For a limited time only, if $500 is too much tell us what you can afford to spend, send us some videos of yourself and we'll send you a piece of paper that says you're a certified instructor, and "a signboard inscribed with Gongkwon Yusul instructor certification logo and letters that is 45cm long and wide". Perhaps there is more to it that it seems, but.?. Why not just find an instructor and spend a few years on the mat getting some real training? Ray "call me a negative Bruce" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest