Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:48:26 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 14 #357 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Grant for MA (Dennis Overall) 2. Master Dan USAT black belt testing (dan scholten) 3. Re: Master Dan USAT black belt testing (Ray) 4. Pan Am Quals (The_Dojang) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Dennis Overall To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Grant for MA Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:20:42 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How would one go about securing a martial arts grant? I think a lot of us that teach for a living would like to have an opportunity to open our doors to some others that need martial arts for self-control, weight loss, or some condition that can be addressed through martial arts training. Dennis Overall _________________________________________________________________ i’m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:37:24 -0900 From: dan scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan USAT black belt testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, It seems there is some concern about USAT testing people for their Black Belt Dan certificates with out approval of their current Master's or Grand Master's. I have inserted a comment I have made regarding this to another Master friend of mine. I would like your comments on this. Thank You Master Dan First the WTF and the Kukiwon program (I could be wrong) but as it was explained to me 35 years ago was created to send 5,000 masters from Korea to the world to promote TKD and the Olympics, these roots started in controversy because the Korean government would not fund it unless the Korean martial artists would agree to come under one roof as a single style and be governed by a single body. This as I understand created a lot of bad feelings with many traditional Korean martial artists masters and GM's who wanted to remain loyal to their master's and the original system they had. My feeling is that the fighting was more than talking in some cases. I was also told that the founder of ITF would be killed if he returned to Korea for splitting off and starting the ITF. The bottom line of what I have seen is that it has all been a struggle and focus for money and what was to be a traditional indigenous native art form with traditional values has been watered down because of western commercialism. Can you really be so surprised then that a US based 9th Dan Korean would be involved with the USAT to circumvent other Masters and Grand Masters to test and certify their students. Its about control and money, they get the testing fees. Also what about Skip Dan's people with enough money and influence are able to jump two Dan's ahead with out the waiting period because they have brokered a special deal with Kukiwon directly. Kukiwon will take money from anyone who has the paper work prepared. The fact that the WTF is being forced by the OIC to merge with the ITF in order to save TKD in the Olympics could not have even been a mental consideration in the 60's or 70's but money over time has even won out over that. The original fighting quality of TKD has been so watered down for the Olympics and commercialism that a sports commentator has to invents something meaning full to say while even covering the final matches on an Olympic match. Then add the embarrassment of competitors being so lame that they have to protest or sue the judgment of the referees on a match to win or be selected on a team. In the 70's there was no doubt who won, one person was down or could not continue. As I visited my GM in November there were MMA Gyms springing up all over town, is it any wonder a fad yes but one that was created by the public's perception that traditional martial art is dead or fake. If you have a black belt that is going to go to the USAT around you because they do not want to listen or obey the rules of the Do Jang I would suggest that that quality was in them at Green Belt and they should have been eliminated then. The reason they are not eliminated and continue to test is because there is a need to raise funds. I think the USTF is heading in the right direction with the focus on traditional and family values for TKD and all of us senior masters should concern our selves with our personal health, training and focusing on teaching the next generations. I am concerned with what lives can I save, Politics the Olympics means nothing to a disadvantage or abused youth. They need life skills now so they can survive and take advantage of basic education to go on to some form of higher education and be successful as son's, daughter's, husbands, wives and parents. If Jido Kwon has taught me anything it is not about winning or taking first place but about survival at any cost, effort is its own reward and make anything a positive by treating it as a learning experience. I think that USAT and USTF will both go on and attract who they will attract. People with more money and time than you and I have will go on and do what they do. I am going to participate in what I feel is best for me and my students. I like the philosophy of be like water, water gets from one point to another by flowing around the rocks not drilling through them. Yes we can drill and blast through them but at what cost and any tool becomes worn, dull or even replaced in time. At our age we don't know how many more days we have so I would like to spend them on positive things. Master Dan. Master Dan --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Dan USAT black belt testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > First the WTF and the Kukiwon program (I could be wrong) but as it was > explained to me 35 years ago was created to send 5,000 masters from Korea to > the world to promote TKD and the Olympics, these roots started in > controversy because the Korean government would not fund it unless the > Korean martial artists would agree to come under one roof as a single style > and be governed by a single body. This as I understand created a lot of bad > feelings with many traditional Korean martial artists masters and GM's who > wanted to remain loyal to their master's and the original system they had. > My feeling is that the fighting was more than talking in some cases. I was > also told that the founder of ITF would be killed if he returned to Korea > for splitting off and starting the ITF. The bottom line of what I have seen > is that it has all been a struggle and focus for money and what was to be a > traditional indigenous native art form with traditional values has been > watered down because of western commercialism. Can you really be so > surprised then that a US based 9th Dan Korean would be involved with the > USAT to circumvent other Masters and Grand Masters to test and certify their > students. Its about control and money, they get the testing fees. Also what > about Skip Dan's people with enough money and influence are able to jump two > Dan's ahead with out the waiting period because they have brokered a special > deal with Kukiwon directly. Kukiwon will take money from anyone who has the > paper work prepared. Not sure where to start, but I'm happy to put in my 2cents worth. Of course Taekwondo or Tang Soo Do was never a "traditional indigenous native art form with traditional values". That is an interesting and romantic story, but obviously false. 35 years ago was 1972. The ITF was founded in 1966 as a sub organization under the KTA for the expressed goal of spreading TKD to the world. So Gen. Choi did not get in trouble for starting the ITF. He got in trouble for (1) trying to put the ITF over the KTA, when the KTA had directed him to form the ITF after he was forced from the KTA presidency, and (2) he was no longer in a position of influence in Korea after Gen. Park Chung-hee took over the presidency in the 1961 coup. As he continued to be a thorn in the side of the KTA and the KTA had the backing of President Park, it was much safer for him to leave Korea and Korean TKD. Esp since Gen. Choi had not backed Gen. Park's coup. As for the rest, well, that is one view. I'm not so sure it is based in fact, but a lover of conspiracy would enjoy the thought of it. Perhaps there is some truth to it, there usually is in most any version of historical events. In general, my personal opinion is that the WTF and the Kukkiwon welcome other countries taking over control for Taekwondo in that country. That is how the globalization of the sport will best occur and this is what I was told while sitting in the Kukkiwon. Perhaps they were telling me what they -thought- I wanted to hear, don't know... don't really care all that much. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:03:26 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pan Am Quals Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Venezuela Earns Four Taekwondo Berths The Korea Times Venezuela finished the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) Pan American Qualification Tournament on Monday in Cali, Colombia, earning four berths for the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The United States and Brazil clinched three places each for the Olympics, while Colombia, Mexico and Puerto Rico earned two places apiece at the two-day qualifying tournament, which drew 85 athletes from 34 countries. In the men's competition, Marcio Wenceslau of Brazil placed first in 58-kilogram category, while Peter Lopez Santos from Peru won at 68kg, Puerto Rico's Juan Sanchez at 80kg, and Cuba's Angel Matos in the over-80kg division. In the women's matches, Gladis Mora of Colombia placed first in the 49-kg division, while Brazil's Debora Nunes won at 57kg, Vanina Sanchez Beron of Argentina at 67kg and Brazil's Natalia Falavigna in the over-67kg class. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest