Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #21 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,300 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. mats (Doug) 2. Re: Single vs Double Wrap Belts (chunjido@aol.com) 3. Training Police and Military (Frank Clay) 4. Re: mats (daomyer@aol.com) 5. Re: Single vs. double wrap (Hankido) 6. RE: tying the belt (J R Hilland) 7. Re: Re: single wrap belt (NevRetreat@aol.com) 8. single v double wrap belts, etc. (Donald) 9. Re: Re: Single vs. double wrap (Ray) 10. overview of TNTs C-4 combatives program (TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro) 11. Re: Single Belts wrapped in disrespect (blueknightpi@att.net) 12. New publication (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Doug" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:29:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] mats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mats: I realize mats are expensive, but shouldn't the dojo shell out the cost of thick mats as opposed to the puzzle mats and 2 inch typical mats I've seen? If we're to learn to really fall, really slam down, constantly thru wrist take downs, throws, etc.. shouldn't we land on something that will really do the trick? Though we're not on the floor much unless we're doing a combat drill, we do go down slamming the floor with our hand (breakfall) when we land.. It is hard to do such acrobatic feats with no mats, might as well be outdoors. The mats I've seen in most of the dojos I've been on, Hapkido, TKD (and even Ninjitsu, excuse me ray,) the mats are about a 2 inches thick. I realize the expense on mats and some even have just the puzzle mats which hardly offer any protection while rolling over concrete floors.. The best mats I've seen but have not the opportunity to land on are with CKM vids, but not many other martial art dojos have those great mats. I wish they did... then I wouldn't mind being slammed so much...but hardwood, or puzzlemats? Ouch! Thoughts? --__--__-- Message: 2 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:31:25 -0500 From: chunjido@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Single vs Double Wrap Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Folks, I've always worn double wraps and have my students wear them, too. Except in the case of the Little Dragons where we got the pre-tied, velcro in the back, single wrap belts from Century. If you surf some supply sites like Century or AWMA you'll see the new thing where you can buy either single or double wrap belts. I've only seen these for about a year, maybe two. The only case where I've ever recommended a single wrap belt to a customer is when they are extremely overweight, just starting martial arts, and can't find a belt to fit them. They would order maybe a size 4 and single wrap it when they really need a size 10 or more, but those aren't mass manufactured. OR they could pay a boatload to have one special made in their size for double wrapping. Most folks go with a single wrap, lose the weight in training, then order double wraps in the future. Some folks were wondering what to do with extra material if you got a double wrap belt and single wrapped it. Well, you wouldn't get a double wrap belt in your size and single wrap it. You'd order a smaller sized belt or since single wrap belts are being readily manufactured now, there would be no extra material to deal with. Hope that helps. Melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy http://www.cjmaa.com Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com 1-877-847-4072 ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:12:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Training Police and Military Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, Technically I trained both. Let me explain and I think this is what generally happens. In my case, I ran special classes for military folks down in P-cola for a friend. So while I was teaching the military I was not an officially sanctioned class. As far as LEOs I taught at the Richmond Virginia Police Academy. Once again, that was a program that was endorsed but completely voluntary... and I think mostly because I had DCJS certification and references in the department. In both cases it was more to do with who I knew than what I knew. Thoughts? Frank --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] mats Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:39:11 -0500 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Mats: I realize mats are expensive, but shouldn't the dojo shell out the cost." Be thankfull. Plenty of schools around the world dont have any at all. Worked that way for a few hundred years. Dave O. -----Original Message----- From: Doug To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 8:29 pm Subject: [The_Dojang] mats Mats: I realize mats are expensive, but shouldn't the dojo shell out the cost of thick mats as opposed to the puzzle mats and 2 inch typical mats I've seen? If we're to learn to really fall, really slam down, constantly thru wrist take downs, throws, etc.. shouldn't we land on something that will really do the trick? Though we're not on the floor much unless we're doing a combat drill, we do go down slamming the floor with our hand (breakfall) when we land.. It is hard to do such acrobatic feats with no mats, might as well be outdoors. The mats I've seen in most of the dojos I've been on, Hapkido, TKD (and even Ninjitsu, excuse me ray,) the mats are about a 2 inches thick. I realize the expense on mats and some even have just the puzzle mats which hardly offer any protection while rolling over concrete floors.. The best mats I've seen but have not the opportunity to land on are with CKM vids, but not many other martial art dojos have those great mats. I wish they did... then I wouldn't mind being slammed so much...but hardwood, or puzzlemats? Ouch! Thoughts? _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Hankido Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:45:43 +0100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Single vs. double wrap Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Good point. In Japanese styles the belt crosses in the back. In > Korean > styles it does not. Make sure you're tying it in the Korean fashion. How odd, my Korean instructor told us specifically to let the belt cross on the back To the original poster: get a scissor and cut your belt in half. That makes it single wrap. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkidoforum.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:06:40 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: tying the belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Vic, if you hadn't sent the link to the Chicago website with the photos I just wouldn't have believed it. Now I can say I have seen everything. Must be convenient for grabbing someone to throw them though! Wonder what the judo players would think if they saw that? :) JRH --__--__-- Message: 7 From: NevRetreat@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:42:50 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: single wrap belt To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A belt tied in a big bow. What a joke. (Soo Bahk) **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Donald" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:51:21 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] single v double wrap belts, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just my 2 cents: - belts are merely an outward symbol of the inner growth, and are therefore mostly for ego gratification [a natural human need - and, hey, I wouldn't trade MY highest belt for anything ]. - 'tradition' is mostly in the eye of the beholder, and I LIKE and HONOR the traditions of my KMA. - IMHO it is rather silly for an instructor to award 'single' wrap belts at some ranks, 'double' wrap ones at others, and to give a student a choice. Definitely a cavalier attitude, don't ya think? - Mr. Gajdosik's explanation of 'combatives' v. MA is spot-on. - Ditto to everyone else re LEARNING basics before 'advanced' techniques, and lots of repetitions for muscle memory. On skipping lower ranks/techniques: -IMVVHO no one will ever need or use the multitudinous techniques in a MA. YMMV, but my experience has been that not every technique will work for every individual due to physiology, flexibility, right v. left hand, etc, The founders recognized this, so included a smorgasbord so each student could gain SD tools tailored to their personal situation, AFTER learning ALL the basics. The reason you have to learn ALL the basics is so that you can then teach ALL the art to your students so they can use what will work for them too, but be able in turn to pass on the WHOLE art. pil seung, Don Ross, seeker of Jedi wisdom [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon1.gif] --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Single vs. double wrap To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:51:43 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Good point. In Japanese styles the belt crosses in the back. In Korean > > styles it does not. Make sure you're tying it in the Korean fashion. > > How odd, my Korean instructor told us specifically to let the belt > cross on the back Even many Japanese styles are now using the uncrossed belt tie method... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "TNT Martial Arts-Hillsboro" To: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:17:43 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] overview of TNTs C-4 combatives program Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<<>>>>> Here's the official version: C-4 Personal Combatives Program The C-4 class is for those who want to enhance their martial 'arts' with proven physical tactics. There are no belts, no uniforms, and adults only are allowed to participate. C-4 is basically the same course content that was taught to area police by TNT's Chief Instructor during his decade in law enforcement. In addition to being a great intense workout, C-4 is a no-nonsense approach to self-defense and threat neutralization. This is where the TNT (Threat Neutralization Training) name comes from. Students learn to blend the best of the martial systems into something they can personally use to protect themselves. Defenses against various weapons are also featured. A very important part of the training includes knowledge laws related to self-defense and proper legal use of force. ---------------------- When one of my friends started police work, she came to me with some real nonsense she learned at the academy defensive tactics class. I was appalled and set to work on researching exactly what was needed. I kinda knew what was needed, but lacked the info to back up the why. I spent about a year looking at use of force, law, and eventually got dragged in to law enforcement myself and got to see some very ridiculous DT stuff. I eventually designed a program that had levels of certifications to maintain and broke down the learning in a building block model. C-4 has Intro, Basic, Intermediate and Advanced levels. Intro is basic movement and footwork, instinctive blocking (flinch reflex), which I actually learned in Aikido. Add in elbows and knee strikes while moving off line, falling, and learning to unbalance opponent and that covers it. This section is heavy on verbal skills, creating good witnesses and legal mumbo jumbo. Basic got into the control holds and teaches how to do them right....you know, when someone is actually resisting. It covers takedowns, avoiding takedowns, pain compliance, non-spiral immobilization and how to reverse/counter common holds. It finishes with testing using mini-scenario training that gets the student using their verbal skills in conjunction with the low end force controls. Intermediate deals with groundfighting(that gets you back to your feet where you belong), and introduction to weapon retention and defense, and full scenario training that deals with most of the empty hand and mid level force application Advanced gets into lock flow, kicking, strikes, edged weapon defense, and multiple scenarios that works the students on their skills. There are a bunch of combatives systems out there, and from the LE folks that have done the other classes, they say mine is like a combination of Blauer's Spear system and Krav Maga, so I guess I did something right. All of them start looking the same whether it is the Modern Warrior, Ryan Defense Systems, CQB inc., and others....crash, bash, knees, elbows...give 'em hell. Anyway, that is the overview---like I said, a decent intermediate knows all this stuff. The biggest thing C-4 does is get someone using their head along with the techniques, and gets them to use the skills in real time with non-compliant partners. FWIW, Mark Gajdostik TNT Martial Arts 503-640-8400 www.martialartshillsboro.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: blueknightpi@att.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:34:08 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Single Belts wrapped in disrespect Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Let’s see, if I got all of this right, quotes are in essence. but not verbatim what was said after I made a post with a link to a school I trained with. “Never heard of single wrap belt in all my years” “Belt looks like fecal matter” “Instructor may be making false claims about being associated with Kido Hae.” “ Instructor probably is making claims about having a lot of experience training Law enforcement” Hey the style was formally established in 1972…and may have existed before that. Year 2008 less year 1972 = 36 years. I am not surprised that anyone under 44 might not know of a style that was around before they were 8 years old. By the way 44 years ago I had been training for 5 years. This sh-tty belf was of course the belt I wore almost 30 years ago. Had I only known how silly and ugly you would think it was, I would have asked my GM to issue me my own special more attractive belt. Then I would have been guilty of disrespect. Oh well, one just cannot win. My rank cards were issued from Korea with dan rank numbers on them and they sure were from Kido Hae. I later resigned from In Sun Seo’s US organization when I learned that he was double branding the later versions of dan ran ID cards and claiming they were what they weren’t. GM Hyun did if fact have a legitimate relationship with Kido Hae. GM Hyun was the contract defensive tactics instructor for years to both the Chicago Plice Department and the Cook County Sheriff’s Department as well as an instr5uctor offering training to 25 or more suburban police departments. Many of my classes were composed members of the FBI, US Customs, DEA and officers from CPD and Cook County adding more training to the minimum that was supplied by their departments. GM Kim was one of the first and longest tenure students of GM Choi. It would have been more respectful and yielded more information if your concerns, and observations were based on asking some of us who might know, instead of sniping, making snide remarks and demeaning some of us who might just have more years on the mart than you do. I am frankly ashamed for you in how this was handled and the way it must look to anyone who hasn’t been around to the the antics that at least infrequently show up here. Vic Cushing --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry To: Dojang The Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:04:32 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] New publication Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Begin forwarded message: > > > The Kyujanggak Institute for Korean Studies would like to announce > the December 31, 2007, publication of the Seoul Journal of Korean > Studies, Volume 20, Number 2. Free copies may be requested by > sending an email with your address to kiks@snu.ac.kr or by mail to: > KIKS - Kyujanggak - Sillim-dong San 56-1, Kwanak-gu, Seoul. > > This volume includes three articles from the field of Korean History: > > -Sem Vermeersch analyzes the historiographical aspects of stelae as > a genre to provide a framework for better understanding early Korean > Buddhism in his article, "The Eminent KoryĹŹ Monk: Stele Inscriptions > as Sources for the Lives and Careers of KoryĹŹ Monks." > > -Song Kiho addresses the history of literacy on the Korean > peninsula, using a variety of sources to present a comparative > evaluation of literary development in the Three Kingdoms period in > "Ancient Literacy: Compariosn and Periodization." > > -Haruka Matsuda's "A Clash of Empires in East Asia: The Geneva > Conference on Korea, 1954" brings our attention to a more recent > event in Korean history, providing a fresh evaluation of an event > that is sometimes overlooked in regard to its impact on the course > of world history in the second half of the 20th century. > > In addition, this issue includes two feature essays: > > -Martina Deuchler offers her insights on her long and distinguished > career in the field of Korean Studies in "Some Reminiscences on > Forty Years of Research in Korea." > > -Károly Fendler unearths a wealth of archival resources that offer a > unique perspective on the critical period of Korea's early > modernization and colonization in "Austro-Hungarian Archival Sources > of Korean History (1884-1910)." > > We would also like to issue our call for papers for Vol. 21, Number > 1, to be published on June 30, 2008. Articles from all fields of > study are welcome, as long as their main focus is on Korea. > > Electronic manuscripts should be sent to seoul.journal@gmail.com in > accordance with the submission guidelines found in the following pdf > file: http://tinyurl.com/3257av > > Submissions are due by April 1, 2008. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest