Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #44 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,300 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: sensei in TKD (aburrese@aol.com) 2. Several items (J R Hilland) 3. BJJ BB thru the mail (Ray) 4. Re: Racial slure? (Ray) 5. RE: Racial slure? (michael tomlinson) 6. RE: BJJ BB thru the mail (michael tomlinson) 7. What Racial Slur (Robert Wood) 8. Korean terms (freddie bishop) 9. Re: What Racial Slur (Ray) 10. RE: Korean terms (John Johnson) 11. Re: What Racial Slur (daomyer@aol.com) 12. Re: What Racial Slur (Jye nigma) 13. Re: What Racial Slur (J Hazen) 14. Re: Korean terms (Michael) 15. korean terms (Master Boyle) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:35:36 -0500 From: aburrese@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: sensei in TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It would be entirely too confusing and completely counter-productive to let them train in both. They would never keep things straight and would lose the history, tradition and etiquette if allowed the cross-training. Those are my two cents. Master Aaron T. Locke ************************* In my best Kwai Chang Caine voice: "Yet, you keep things straight, and have not lost history, tradition, and etiquette by cross-training?" I in no way mean to be disrespectful, but I have a little difficulty understanding. You are saying if I were your student, I would not be able to keep things straight and would lose the history, tradition and etiquette of the arts, even though you have trained in and now teach them both? How can you keep them straight and maintain the history, tradition, and etiquette of both arts while your students can't? Hapki, Alain www.burrese.com ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:04:02 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Several items Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<...It is easy to see that because of the relationships between Japan and Korea going back over 100 years there could easily be great racial and cultural tension....S.C. Riggs>>> The history between Japan and Korea is a lot older than 100 years. "Between 1592-1598, Japan invaded Korea, but was eventually repelled with the efforts by the Navy led by Admiral Yi Sun-sin, resistance armies, and Chinese aid." "Beginning in the 1870s, Japan began to force Korea out of China's sphere of influence into its own. In 1895, Empress Myeongseong of Korea was assassinated by Japanese agents." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Korea <<<...DO NOT address Dr. Kimm as "Sensei"...Dr. Kimm being the gentleman that he is would not say anything to you....>>> I think we would actually feel the ground vibrate from the growl! <<>> Some people just want to make things more difficult then they need to be. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:07:32 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ BB thru the mail Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Get your BJJ 1st Dan via the web. http://www.abjja.com Ray "a greatgrandmaster via the web" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Racial slure? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:17:05 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Did I miss something? What racial slure? I believe the reference is to this that was at the bottom of one email. Sorry, I didn't notice it was there... Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: michael tomlinson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Racial slure? Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:28:38 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Are you kidding me??? Karate for Christ?? Dirty africans??? Wow....now I've heard it all....I guess "if" you claim to be "religious" than anything is ok to say huh???? Pathetic.. and offensive to say the least...and when I get offended you know it's has to be bad !! Michael Tomlinson > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Racial slure? > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:17:05 -0800 > From: rterry@idiom.com > > > Did I miss something? What racial slure? > > I believe the reference is to this that was at the bottom of one email. > Sorry, I didn't notice it was there... > > > Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty > Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying > about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial > arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com > > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 From: michael tomlinson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] BJJ BB thru the mail Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:31:56 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WHY IS IT ALWAYS DOWN HERE IN FLORIDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Michael Tomlinson Ps. I got my computer in an arm bar right now!! > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:07:32 -0800 > From: rterry@idiom.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] BJJ BB thru the mail > > Get your BJJ 1st Dan via the web. > > http://www.abjja.com > > > Ray "a greatgrandmaster via the web" Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Robert Wood" Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:07:36 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, blueknightpi@att.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What Racial Slur Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What "dirty Africans" phrase? I remember talking about prisons being a Criminal University and they, the prisoners, spend a lot of time perfecting their fighting techniques. I mentioned nothing about race or ethnicity. I am not a bigot or a racist. I have severed with people of different ethnic background and have enjoyed their company at work and in our homes. I have placed others safety and wellbeing, regardless of ethnicity, above my own on more than one occasion. I detest bigotry and racism in any form; PERIOD! Please let me know what offended you and we can work through this misunderstanding. iHs, Robert L. Wood I am careful not to confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is Gods business. Michael J. Fox __________________________________________________________________ Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com Get your own emal service at ZZN.COM. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:08:08 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Regarding titles, how do you know which title to use? Sabumnim? Kwangjangnim? In the Okinawan arts you have sensei, renshi, shihan etc. Does the Korean language have a word that means simply: teacher, master instructor, organization head, creator of a style. fred ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What Racial Slur To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:19:29 -0800 (PST) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What "dirty Africans" phrase? The one in your email... > __________________________________________________________________ > > Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty > Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying > about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial > arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com > Get your own emal service at ZZN.COM. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: John Johnson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korean terms Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:11:01 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Fred, The term Sabum is usually bestowed on anyone with a fourth dan or higher in the Korean martial arts. The term simply means "instructor" or possibly "teacher", but the latter definition is not the same meaning as the person who taught you your multiplication tables in fourth grade. Kwanjang is a title for those individuals who own a school of some sort. The local 4-18-year olds that go to learn English at private learning institutions call the owner "Kwanjang-nim", and I also refer to my hapkido instructor by the same name. In essence, however, everyone over 4th dan is a sabum, but only those who open a dojang can be called "Kwanjang-nim". Incidentally, the term "Boo-sabum-nim" is usually reserved for 3rd dans who assist in teaching (it means lower or assistant instructor). In the International Taekwon-do Federation, there are different terms for 7th-8th dans, and finally a different title for 9th dans. However, most Koreans do not distinguish between these terms nowadays. In the KHF, the term Senior Master is used for some 8th and most 9th dans, but this is not bestowed title that comes with rank. Rather, it is given to those very, very few individuals who have been training and teaching since Hector. John A. Johnson 4th dan, KHF 4th dan, ITF > Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:08:08 -0800 > From: mauler681@yahoo.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean terms > > Regarding titles, how do you know which title to use? > Sabumnim? Kwangjangnim? In the Okinawan arts you have > sensei, renshi, shihan etc. Does the Korean language > have a word that means simply: teacher, master > instructor, organization head, creator of a style. > > fred > > > _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx --__--__-- Message: 11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What Racial Slur Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:56:59 -0500 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Send your self an email to a different account. I believe that a generated section you are not aware of ( I hope). Its the same way AOL and Yahoo add below the signatures. You dont see it but every one whoe gets yourv email does. Dave O. -----Original Message----- From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What Racial Slur > What "dirty Africans" phrase? The one in your email... > __________________________________________________________________ > > Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty > Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying > about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial > arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com > Get your own emal service at ZZN.COM. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:54:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What Racial Slur To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net they are refering to what looks to be your signature: "Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com Get your own emal service at ZZN.COM." Jye Robert Wood wrote: What "dirty Africans" phrase? I remember talking about prisons being a Criminal University and they, the prisoners, spend a lot of time perfecting their fighting techniques. I mentioned nothing about race or ethnicity. I am not a bigot or a racist. I have severed with people of different ethnic background and have enjoyed their company at work and in our homes. I have placed others safety and wellbeing, regardless of ethnicity, above my own on more than one occasion. I detest bigotry and racism in any form; PERIOD! Please let me know what offended you and we can work through this misunderstanding. iHs, Robert L. Wood I am careful not to confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is Gods business. Michael J. Fox __________________________________________________________________ Do an Internet search for "419 Scam" to learn all about the dirty Africans who sign up for free email accounts to send out spams lying about having millions of dollars to share with you. Discuss martial arts & Christianity at http://www.karateforchrist.com Get your own emal service at ZZN.COM. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) From: J Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What Racial Slur Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Robert: R: > What "dirty Africans" phrase? On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Ray had this to say: R: The one in your email... Looks to me like it's probably auto-generated by his provider, ZZN.com. Wow. ~ Jeff --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Michael" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Korean terms Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:46:12 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Johnson, Very good information and very accurate. Thanks for sharing. v/r Michael Munyon ITF, 5th Dan USKMAF, 1st Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Johnson" To: Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Korean terms > Dear Fred, > > The term Sabum is usually bestowed on anyone with a fourth dan or higher > in > the Korean martial arts. The term simply means "instructor" or possibly > "teacher", but the latter definition is not the same meaning as the person > who > taught you your multiplication tables in fourth grade. > > Kwanjang is a title for those individuals who own a school of some sort. > The > local 4-18-year olds that go to learn English at private learning > institutions > call the owner "Kwanjang-nim", and I also refer to my hapkido instructor > by > the same name. In essence, however, everyone over 4th dan is a sabum, but > only > those who open a dojang can be called "Kwanjang-nim". > > Incidentally, the term "Boo-sabum-nim" is usually reserved for 3rd dans > who > assist in teaching (it means lower or assistant instructor). In the > International Taekwon-do Federation, there are different terms for 7th-8th > dans, and finally a different title for 9th dans. However, most Koreans do > not > distinguish between these terms nowadays. In the KHF, the term Senior > Master is used for some 8th and most 9th dans, but this is not bestowed > title > that comes with rank. Rather, it is given to those very, very few > individuals > who have been training and teaching since Hector. > > John A. Johnson > 4th dan, KHF > 4th dan, ITF > > > >> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:08:08 -0800 >> From: mauler681@yahoo.com >> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean terms >> >> Regarding titles, how do you know which title to use? >> Sabumnim? Kwangjangnim? In the Okinawan arts you have >> sensei, renshi, shihan etc. Does the Korean language >> have a word that means simply: teacher, master >> instructor, organization head, creator of a style. >> >> fred >> >> >> > _____________________________________________________________________________ > _______ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> _______________________________________________ >> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members >> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >> Standard disclaimers apply >> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get > your > "fix". > http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Master Boyle" To: Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:56:00 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] korean terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net your term are right on what about kosa nim Master Anthony Boyle --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest