From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Apr 4 15:39:06 2008 Date: 04 Apr 2008 15:39:06 -0500 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 1207341546 0000000000 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Thu Apr 3 16:03:29 2008 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id m33L3Su19011 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:03:29 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E13BB2856C; Fri, 4 Apr 2008 00:06:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:05:01 +0200 Message-ID: <20080403220501.10259.21990.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #85 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_COST,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,300 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: burned in a fire (michael tomlinson) 2. RE: Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip (mdealba@comcast.net) 3. RE: Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip (Jye nigma) 4. Re: Hwarang Kwan Hapkido (Jye nigma) 5. RE: Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip (Jye nigma) 6. RE: Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip (Thomas Gordon) 7. RE: Fire Breathing...Maysayer??? (Jye nigma) 8. Re: Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip (daomyer@aol.com) 9. Re: Fire Breathing...Maysayer??? (daomyer@aol.com) 10. WTF Demo Team (The_Dojang) 11. Hapkido Seminar (Sharon Tkach) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: michael tomlinson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] burned in a fire Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:14:09 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know him personally but my prayers are with him and his family. Michael Tomlinson > > Those of you that know Master Perry Lyons, please send him your best. > He was apparently burned in a house fire last week while rescuing > family members. > > I understand that he is doing ok, but a wish to him for a very quick > and complete recovery is in order. > > Ray Terry > _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ Refresh_messenger_video_042008 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: mdealba@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, Cc: michael tomlinson Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:26:48 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net “We do everyone of those throws in our Hapkido classes.... farang is basically rehashed Hapkido... and that is not stated as an insult or bashing.... everything in that video looks like hapkido except for the shiney doboks and the patty cake patty cake bakers man punching before some of the techniques.......” Whoaa a minute Sir. This is my martial art here. I know you said that you are not trying to bash or anything, but you have to see that these remarks do come across as arrogant, ignorant or at best, un-informed. How about something more relevant to the video. Such as, you liked it, or you didn’t like it. Why diminish his techniques, dress uniforms or other aspects that you obviously do not understand. (IE: his “patty cake” are very tight and well integrated trapping skills). Master Vega is an excellent technician, and one hell of a teacher and human being. If you liked the techniques or presentation, or you did not like them, that is fine, but listen to your comments. If your message is that Modern Farang Mu Sul comes from Hapkido, well, as the founder, I can tell you, ABSOLUTELY. I came from Hapkido (“old school HKD” via Ji Han Jae lineage, “soft style HKD, aka Hankido, via Myung Jae Nam lineage, and others). I ALSO came from other Korean arts such as Hwa Rang Do, Kuk Sool Won, (all with deep HKD roots), Tae Kwon Do, Sun Mu Do and Do Hap Sool. Truthfully, I also have roots in Kempo, Shorin Ryu, Wing Chun, Kali, Jujitsu, and VERY deep roots in Boxing, Kickboxing, Street fighting (yes, street fighting), as well as other arts. Guess what? All of these have influenced our art: Modern Farang Mu Sul. Therefore, it is un-fair to summarily state: it’s “basically rehashed Hapkido”. You do not know the full extent of our art. And frankly, I expected more, than the usual “outsider type of condescension”. Just as much as it bugged me when people would say to me, “oh your Hapkido is just Jujitsu or Aikido”, or “your Tae Kwon Do is just Karate”. These type of statements generally come from people who are ignorant, jealous or just plain stupid. I’m sure we can all relate. Personally, I’m over it. I’m not taking it from a Korean, American, or anyone. Respect garners respect. Thank you for recognizing the Hapkido in our art, and thank you for allowing me to clarify. With much respect and brotherhood, Grand Master Michael De Alba -- **CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE** This email communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the designated recipient named above. Distribution, reproduction or any other use of this transmission by any party other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: michael tomlinson > We do everyone of those throws in our Hapkido classes....farang is basically > rehashed Hapkido...and that is not stated as an insult or > bashing....everything in that video looks like hapkido except for the shiney > doboks and the patty cake patty cake bakers man punching before some of the > techniques....... > > also if you want to see a funny video one of my old high school students did > for a class project go to youtube and type in acmt force it's hillarious > and has some goofy scenes of me.... > > Michael Tomlinson > > > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 04:11:55 -0700 > > From: kingjye@yahoo.com > > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Subject: [The_Dojang] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + > Video Clip > > > > Modern Farang Mu Sul: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUHCqlzm3gs > > > > > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > > 4 > > New Members > > > > 15 > > New Links > > > > Visit Your Group > > Y! Sports for TV > > Game Day Companion > > Live fantasy league > > & game stats on TV. > > > > Yahoo! Search > > Try a shortcut > > Get local weather > > faster. > > > > Moderator Central > > Yahoo! Groups > > Join and receive > > produce updates. > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > __,_._,___ To: Puerto Rico MA Group > , > > prko@yahoogroups.com, prfma@yahoogroups.com > > From: DAVID RODRIGUEZ > > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:06:13 -0700 (PDT) > > Subject: [martialartspr] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar > > > > Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar > > with Master Dennis Vega ( President of Puerto Rico Modern Farang Mu Sul® > ) > > > > Sunday, May 25, 2008 > > > > Hour: 9:00am > > > > Location: Vega's Martial Arts Institute > > > > Calle Jose Olmo # 323 > > Arecibo, Puerto Rico > > > > Info: Master Dennis Vega > > 7873470485 / denrama@yahoo.com > > > > El costo del mismo son $30.00 el cual incluye > > almuerzo buffet. > > > > Bien importante, NO Gi favor de asistir en T Shirt y pantalones largo de > ejercicio y tenis. Es un seminario dirigido a tecnicas para defensa callejera. > > > > Se entregaran certificado acreditados por la federacion de Modern Farang Mu > Sul a todos aquellos que asistan al mismo. > > > > http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=22249720113 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, No Cost. > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ > instantaccess_042008 > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:12:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It just doesn't make any sense to me. When I look at the history of some KMAs it's just sad that someone felt it was better to lie and say an art was from ancient times rather then build off of what is legit. When you investigate the different kung fu styles you can see someone who studied a certain system added to or took away from techniques and poof they have their own system of MA...and they give respect to the art they studied as the foundation they built off of. and the art is still good. Jye michael tomlinson wrote: Jye, Big time and the main reason is that the people who created KSW and HWD are old Hapkido black belts from BEFORE they created or ascended to their current martial art.....when a zebra lives in Montana, ridden by a cowboy and it is covered with black and white stripes it's still a zebra no matter what the cowboy says.......Michael Tomlinson> --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hwarang Kwan Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net See that's what I can't stand. Why not keep it real and just promote your art as your own and pay respect to the arts that influenced it or that it's foundation is built on? There is nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure if they promoted it that way they would have just as many members or more. That's like someone studying judo, putting on african garb, playing african sounds adding a few hops strikes and kicks and saying that it's an ancient african grappling art....which on the outside appears to be different but at the core is judo. Jye- why can't people just keep it real? lol Ray wrote: On the topic of Hwarang Do and its progeny, those that have been subscribed to the list for a while will recall Carsten from Europe. He was a Hwarang Do person that always claimed that Hwarang Do was very different from Hapkido. We went back and forth for a few years on that, and then Dr. Joo Bang Lee came out with about 25,000 videos on Hwarang Do (well, maybe just 25 or 35)... It was said that if someone would just take the time to go thru these videos they would see the clear difference between Hwarang Do and Hapkido. I wasn't really interested in purchasing the entire set, so I asked for a pointer to three or four that would show a difference. The videos were purchased and reviewed. While Dr. Joo Bang Lee is indeed a long time and gifted Hapkido instructor, the Hwarang Do he teaches is essentially Hapkido. I saw no difference in those videos that would lead me or anyone to the conclusion that HRD is not HKD. True, each Hapkido Kwan was a bit different, but it was still essentially Hapkido that they taught. As the subject indicates, HwaRang Do was and is HwaRang Kwan Hapkido. The name of the art was later changed (and trademarked in the US) from HwaRang Kwan Hapkido to HwaRang Do. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have to admit, that I can see why it seems like patty cake. I've studied snake fist boxing and we have a type of trapping, sticking, etc (which is most likely found in all branches of kung fu), but it really didn't look like trapping to me. Now to be exact, @ 1:41-1:44 appears to be some type of drill? but then @1:44-1:46 it looks like patty cake-ish. Even in slo-mo where you can see a little better it just looks that way. The way I was taught, trapping doesn't go on and on or else what got trapped? We had sensitivity drills that looked somewhat like what the guys started doing where your arms don't leave your opponent's in a continuous flow. I don't speak for anyone else so that's why I thought it looked patty cake-ish too. But on another note, from time to time I've seen your art demonstrated on the net, and this guy is one of the best I've seen so far. What I notice is there appears to be some flash to the art but he demonstrates it in a way that seems to minimize the flash and maximize the whoop ass! Jye mdealba@comcast.net wrote: (IE: his “patty cake” are very tight and well integrated trapping skills). --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 00:12:15 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interesting reading the comments about the video being Hapkido. In the early/mid 90's, I took 18 months of Judo & traditional Japanese ju-jutsu. That school closed when the instructor moved. About 5 years ago, I started training at Hapkido school and I found very similar Judo throws in the middle/upper ranks of Hapkido. Within the last 16-20 months, I was able to get mat time with Judo world champion and Olympian Mike Swain and again it all looked very, very similar and most of it identical to what I had learned from the first Judo instructor and my current Hapkido instructor. So the question is, as Hapkido players, assuming there is minimum to no difference (let's not get nitpicky with minute semantics), are we learning Hapkido throws or Judo throws? I have my own thoughts but curious as to some of the other's on this list. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 18-20, 2008 www.gordonmartialarts.com/new/2008-0420 --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:20:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fire Breathing...Maysayer??? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No disrespect but I swear this same stuff is in Ashida Kim's books....lol. Bottomline the in a scenario like what you mentioned, aggresiveness means nothing. It's the mind that should stay calm and the body that moves fast. Aggresiveness that isn't controlled is linked to rage where your mind shuts down and overrides reason and you in essence get much closer to being an animal then typical. That's suitable for conan the barbarian, but for a martial artist? we train to be the opposite. Jye michael tomlinson wrote: Hey, all good points...it's not that you can't control the fire breathing it's just that it is very effective in boosting your aggression...where it comes in handy?? For instance...say you need to enter a building and you know that there are people in the building that want to kill you,, your logical mind might tell you not to do this...but you have to enter the building,,, period,,, yes proper training will help you and is the most important factor, but to get over that initial logical mental hurdle you could use a quick series of fire breathing to bump your aggression up to the point of not only entering the building but entering the building with the proper mind set you need to not only survive but to be a very physical and nasty person....after I learned fire breathing I recognized back when I played college football that a lot of players did a pseudo version of it before they started the game...it's kind of natural to humans when you KNOW you are about to enter into a violent or life threatening situation....a lot of people will read this a say it is better to be calm during those initial situations....BUT...the trick is being just calm enough to function well but aggressive enough to plow through whatever is in your way without hesitation or guilt....it's kind of like adding nitrogen to your car engine to get that quick boost of acceleration... I don't teach fire breathing because like I said it makes people aggressive really fast..and that is not something I want to give to people,, I'd rather give people humor, comraderie, honor, and empathy....I would never teach something like this over the internet...and I've only taught it to my family and close students... Michael Tomlinson --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --__--__-- Message: 8 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Throwing Techniques for Street Fighting Seminar + Video Clip Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:06:32 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas, Judo comes from Jujitsu as does Hapkido. Therfore they both incorporate the same foundation and its possible that both players are learning HKD and Judo throws independent and maybe the same of each other. Dave O. Interesting reading the comments about the video being Hapkido. In the early/mid 90's, I took 18 months of Judo & traditional Japanese ju-jutsu. That school closed when the instructor moved. About 5 years ago, I started training at Hapkido school and I found very similar Judo throws in the middle/upper ranks of Hapkido. Within the last 16-20 months, I was able to get mat time with Judo world champion and Olympian Mike Swain and again it all looked very, very similar and most of it identical to what I had learned from the first Judo instructor and my current Hapkido instructor. So the question is, as Hapkido players, assuming there is minimum to no difference (let's not get nitpicky with minute semantics), are we learning Hapkido throws or Judo throws? --__--__-- Message: 9 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fire Breathing...Maysayer??? Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 11:10:09 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No disrespect but I swear this same stuff is in Ashida Kim's books....lol. Bottomline the in a scenario like what you mentioned, aggresiveness means nothing. It's the mind that should stay calm and the body that moves fast. Aggresiveness that isn't controlled is linked to rage where your mind shuts down and overrides reason and you in essence get much closer to being an animal then typical. That's suitable for conan the barbarian, but for a martial artist? we train to be the opposite. Jye So if you had an extra tool you could use you would not. Blind rage is one thing but emotional driven adrenalin rush seems like a natural boost that could add the edge. Why not have the extra tool available if you could decide how and when to use it. Dave O. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:23:24 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF Demo Team Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF Demonstration Team 03 Apr 2008 The World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) will form a WTF Taekwondo Demonstration Team and dispatch the team to requesting countries. This is part of our efforts to encourage less developed taekwondo member national associations to actively promote taekwondo within their respective countries. The WTF Taekwondo Demonstration Team will also help to raise competent taekwondo athletes, coaches and regional taekwondo demonstration teams. ¨ Outline 1. Size : about 50 members 2. Region : WTF 188 member nations 3. Details A. Instruct taekwondo skills and exchange training program as requested B. Promote cooperative worldwide taekwondo demonstration team C. Educate taekwondo skills, culture and spirit ¨ Conditions 1. Ages above 19 2. Kukkiwon Dan Certificate holders above 3rd Dan 3. No problems with traveling or living in other countries for long durations ¨ Application 1. Duration : March 26 ~ April 15, 2008 2. Office : World Taekwondo Federation 3. How to apply A. Download the application form at www.wtf.org B. Cover letter with self-introduction essay (2pages/A4) C. Copy of Education Certificates and Kukkiwon Dan D. Recommendation letter from president of national association E. Send them by email or fax i. Address : Joyang Bldg. 4th 113, Samseong-dong, Gangnam-gu, Seoul, Korea ii. Tel: 82-2-566-2505 iii. Fax: 82-2-553-4728 ¨ Selection Process 1. Qualifications A. Recommended from president of national association B. Language abilities : English (priority to those who speak other WTF official languages) 2. Interview and Test A. Date : April 26, 2008 (10:00~) B. Place: Korea National Sport University 3. Announce of selection : April 30, 2008 (Through WTF website) 4. Commencement of Demonstration Team : May 15, 2008 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Sharon Tkach" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:24:17 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You're all invited! Jang Mu Hapkido Association's Annual Seminar (GM Chong S. Kim) Saturday April 19, 2008, 9am-4pm, Dinner at 6:30pm The Colorado Belle, Laughlin, NV Discount on rooms reserved by Apr. 7. Email me for more info. ~Sharon Tkach --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest