Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 02:48:52 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #107 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,300 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Sparring Issues (FirstPe315@aol.com) 2. Face Punching and Sparring (FirstPe315@aol.com) 3. Re: Sparring Issues (daomyer@aol.com) 4. Re: Sparring Issues (Jye nigma) 5. Re: Sparring Issues (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:11:04 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Issues Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Man, am the only one here who believes that you can exercise "control" when practicing head/face contact (with either punching OR kicking). And, what happened to a BB's (or senior students) skill to ascertain skill and physical ability level of the person they're going against and tailor they're intensity level accordingly. Aren't these high level MA abilities that we should expect? I have a piece of information for Jye...anybody can spar with full contact intensity but not make full contact...there is a difference! It's called control! I've been sparring for over 25 years and we never wore headgear and face punching and kicking was allowed albeit with control. Never seen a knockout in practice and in my own school of over 8 years, no major injuries yet...but when you've been hit in the head, you know it. Perhaps control is a lost art in lieu of either bashing somebody and hurting them (which anybody can be trained to do) or never making any contact or learning how to. My experience has been students are either trained to be non-contact as a philosophy from the top down or they are too brutal all the time and people get hurt. I've always felt control is paramount to high end MA training. You can go almost all out and nobody ever gets hurt...you can do the same with full speed Randori (Judo fighting) and just get to the point where the throw is there and you stop it. I would think this is standard training...maybe I'm wrong. The only time I've wore headgear was when I boxed...and I usually got hit more because the mindset is you can take more shots because your protected so guess what...you actually take more shots. I was much more mindful when I didn't have the headgear on. Headgear and body protection doesn't protect from injuries for people that can really kick and punch hard...they're meant to protect against cuts and such so those type of injuries don't keep you from competition. I've been knocked out with headgear on and had ribs broken with body armor on...it doesn't make a difference. Being taught good control, IMHO is the answer to giving students the ability they need to go hard and yet protect against injuries...not protection equipment. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --__--__-- Message: 2 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:54:47 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Face Punching and Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net An interesting note here. I sub-lease my space to an Enshin Karate Group. It's an offshoot of Kyokushin and Judo. Very hard style and very nasty. I love sparring with them...they really do mix it up. But, despite how tough they are, when we put the gloves on and change the rules up a bit (which we do in Hapkido), it is an array of fighting that they are not used to. It REALLY changes the dynamics when somebody can punch you in the face. There defenses are geared around not being concerned with getting hit in the face and thus, guess what, they do a lot when you CAN hit in the face. My experience with a few Kyokushin in the past is the same. You definitely need to bring it when you spar with them but unless you modify your training as a MA so that you include this type of training (i.e., punching and head contact) you are missing an element that is very important and potentially devestating in a self-defense situation. Of course, I'm a bit biased being an old boxer...there's nothing like punching somebody in the face...it's like getting a perfect Ippon Throw in Judo...almost better than you know what...but not quite! Jeff **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring Issues Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:56:12 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Its a kind of middleground. On the one hand controlled sparring that yes, lets you shoot those hits out there. On the other hand its safe to say a little toughening up also makes it easier to play. Instead most have stopped the tough Martial Artist thing as well as eliminated any real fighting and now we have a great dance..er I mean sport ..um..Martial ..something -----Original Message----- From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 2:11 pm Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Issues --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:58:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring Issues To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the news but who said full contact was just barbaric force with no skill? To think that is what full force is discredits any MA that trains in full contact and makes one think that whoever thinks that has limited to no experience in full contact sparring. Not everyone trains that way because they fear getting hurt. I say if you're afraid of getting hurt don't sign up to be a martial artist because there is only 2 types of people in the MA wannabes and warriors. I've sparred full contact with no safety equipment also, and guess what noone died. Bottomline is this if you train in a martial art you should have faith in your skills to effective protect you against ANY type of attack whether light or heavy. If you're scared of getting hit then maybe the MAs aren't for you. Jye FirstPe315@aol.com wrote: Man, am the only one here who believes that you can exercise "control" when practicing head/face contact (with either punching OR kicking). And, what happened to a BB's (or senior students) skill to ascertain skill and physical ability level of the person they're going against and tailor they're intensity level accordingly. Aren't these high level MA abilities that we should expect? I have a piece of information for Jye...anybody can spar with full contact intensity but not make full contact...there is a difference! It's called control! I've been sparring for over 25 years and we never wore headgear and face punching and kicking was allowed albeit with control. Never seen a knockout in practice and in my own school of over 8 years, no major injuries yet...but when you've been hit in the head, you know it. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:49:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring Issues To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net exactly! But full contact IS done with control also. More force doesn't equal less control. In my opinion people who teach that are so called masters that probably can't fight or use their art for real. Jye daomyer@aol.com wrote: Its a kind of middleground. On the one hand controlled sparring that yes, lets you shoot those hits out there. On the other hand its safe to say a little toughening up also makes it easier to play. Instead most have stopped the tough Martial Artist thing as well as eliminated any real fighting and now we have a great dance..er I mean sport ..um..Martial ..something --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest