Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:48:22 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #114 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,300 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: test video (David Beck) 2. Re: Re: test video (steven riggs) 3. Re: 6th Dan Test (Beungood8@aol.com) 4. Re: Re: test video (Jye nigma) 5. TKD in the 60s (Jye nigma) 6. RE: Re: 6th Dan Test (michael tomlinson) 7. RE: Re: 6th Dan Test (Jye nigma) 8. Re: test video (Jon Payne) 9. 6yr old black belt? (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 10. Re: Test video (Greg Hindley) 11. Re: 6yr old black belt? (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:47:26 -0500 From: "David Beck" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: test video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "ISA Headquarters" > To: > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:42:49 -0400 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: test video > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > This is what 5th Dans look like somewhere. > Pity, pity! > > Can you imagine what their students look like? > > http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443 > > Respectfully, > George I. Petrotta > ISA International Director > www.sungjado.org/ > isahdq@sc.rr.com > info@sungjado.org > 1-843-968-8178 > 137 Timberlake Dr. > Florence, SC 29501 > USA > -- __--__-- > > Even worse, how much you want to bet they all passed that 'test' and they're what 6th Dans look like now... Sigh, -- David N. Beck dnbeck@beckmartialarts.com http://www.beckmartialarts.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: test video To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If I didn't know better I would say this was a joke. Perhaps even an elaborate play to make fun of someone. After watching the entire video it became obvious that these individuals were serious. As I have gotten older and heavier (I thought I would say it before you thought it) I have slowed down some. I don't do the jump spin techniques of my youth however........This was embarrassing. When I did my 5th dan test I sparred against 3 people. For speed and conditioning there was a teenage red belt who could fight forever. Then there was Mr Vanderleek a 3rd dan, 30 year old, 6' 2" slim fast as a snake black belt. Finally there was Mr Stock whom you know. At that time he was 28 6'4" and weighed 240 pounds mostly muscle. I was 49 sparring people over 20 years younger than myself. I fought them individually without safety gear, with safety gear and then multiples. I sparred 8 separate occasions that day. I didn't do as well as I wanted that day (my own worse critic) and for awhile tended to compare myself to much with the much younger, healthier and in better conditioned young men. Looking at this video makes me come off looking like Chuck Norris. lol.... Tests, instructors, black belts of a school such as are seen in the video are a real shame. What does the martial arts world think when they see this? I have taught a self-defense class at the local college for 4 years now. As you know I teach Sungja-do and keep it very basic in order to give them a small number of solid techniques that might stay with them in the future. Every year at least one of these testosterone filled young college guys wants to try out this 50+ gray haired guy. It normally only takes one of them picking himself up off the gym floor to settle the issue of who is in charge. One year the same guy tried me twice, about the 2nd week in and then about 10 weeks later. As he tried to shove me I did a technique you had showed me in a seminar. I stepped to my left, intercepted his right wrist, put a type of cobra grip on it with my index fingers pointing at the ceiling and then swung my hips 180 degrees while holding his wrist close to my chest. He hit the ground, rolled a couple of times and stopped looking up at the ceiling. I walked over to him and looked down and asked him if he had any doubts about how well the technique worked. "nope"... Hope you and Avis are doing well. Trust you are enjoying your new home. I don't know if you have heard from master John Mayer or not. I had lunch with him about a week ago and he talked about maybe coming down and getting together with you. I encouraged him to do so and not delay as the FBI will be transferring him to Guam for 3 years no later then early July. Dianne & I hate for them to go as we had gotten to be good friends with John and Andrea. Without details given I took it that the Bureau is taking a very proactive stance on keeping terrorism pushed off the mainland and dealing with it elsewhere. I thank the Lord for using God fearing men like John who serves his country and his Savior using his well developed arsenal of skills. On top of the martial arts he is also a certified firearms instructor for the Bureau. I am taking a small group of students up to Karate College the latter part of June. I had a great time with Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis and Mike Lee Kenark. Kenark is an Israeli anti-terrorism specialist. He had an excellent seminar last year on disarming knives and handguns. They have a lot of grappling people there which does not interest me. They fortunately have a wide range of excellent instructors in other areas. I will have the chance to upgrade my certification with police nightstick, baton, skills with grandmaster Joe Hess. I was certified to teach impact weapons a number of years ago but it has been quite awhile. When we moved from PA to NC I went immediately to the Justice Academy. The instructor there looked at my background and suggested I teach that part of the course because my training was far superior to his. It was fun to do and I got the self-defense award at the completion of rookie school. Well, I have used up to much of your time already. Class has been up and down lately and hard to figure exactly why. Had a couple of people get to brown belt and quit. I can not for the life of me figure why you would want to put so much time and hard work into something and quit before making your chodan. Curt knows the individuals and is as perplexed as I am for most of the situations. We believe that with a couple that it is simply they believe and other people have told them that they should have already been promoted to black belt. They believe them and it sours their attitude. Such a shame to see it happen but my standards remain the same and I don't beg a quitter to come back by enticing them with a soon to be awarded black belt. I was told once that if a black belt was easy to obtain everybody would have one. Dianne sends her best to both of you. In Christ, Steve ISA Headquarters wrote: This is what 5th Dans look like somewhere. Pity, pity! Can you imagine what their students look like? http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443 Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA International Director www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com info@sungjado.org 1-843-968-8178 137 Timberlake Dr. Florence, SC 29501 USA _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Sensei Steven Riggs Master Instructor American Defensive Arts Master of Philosophy in Martial Science stevencriggs@yahoo.com www.americandefensivearts.org 828-322-6904 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:56:13 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th Dan Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 4/25/2008 7:42:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: This is what 5th Dans look like somewhere. Pity, pity! Can you imagine what their students look like? _http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443_ (http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443) Good Lord! IS this a joke? **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:41:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: test video To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I thought I had seen it all until I saw that board break attempt....ROFLMAO. This is the funniest yet saddest MA clips I've seen in a long time. I liked the "knife defense" when the old man stabbed the piss outta the defender....LMAO. this is just too sad! I want to jump through the clip and break those boards for him. And then people wonder why TKD gets a bad name! Jye David Beck wrote: > This is what 5th Dans look like somewhere. > Pity, pity! > > Can you imagine what their students look like? > > http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:12:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD in the 60s Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://youtube.com/watch?v=2oWCFCoQpZ8&feature=related --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: michael tomlinson To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th Dan Test Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:09:15 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The one thing that bothers me more than the techniques is the relaxed meandering and the coffee shop talking while they are testing....man.....there is no show of will power or focus of purpose what so ever...it's like they aren't testing for a high ranking black belt....it's more like they are on a Saturday afternoon fishing trip....they are just mentally limp and as dull as a bean burrito going through my large intestine!! Michael Tomlinson > From: Beungood8@aol.com > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:56:13 -0400 > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th Dan Test > > In a message dated 4/25/2008 7:42:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > This is what 5th Dans look like somewhere. > Pity, pity! > > Can you imagine what their students look like? > > _http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443_ > (http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443) > > > > > > Good Lord! IS this a joke? > > > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car > listings at AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en- US?ocid=TAG_APRIL --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th Dan Test To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yeah, nothing worse to see in MA then techniques executed with no intent....noodle arms. I like to see techniques executed as if someone is really on the receiving end of a strike...like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oknyJULJtwY. jye michael tomlinson wrote: The one thing that bothers me more than the techniques is the relaxed meandering and the coffee shop talking while they are testing....man.....there is no show of will power or focus of purpose what so ever...it's like they aren't testing for a high ranking black belt....it's more like they are on a Saturday afternoon fishing trip....they are just mentally limp and as dull as a bean burrito going through my large intestine!! Michael Tomlinson > From: Beungood8@aol.com > Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:56:13 -0400 > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 6th Dan Test > > In a message dated 4/25/2008 7:42:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > This is what 5th Dans look like somewhere. > Pity, pity! > > Can you imagine what their students look like? > > _http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443_ > (http://video.aol.com/video-detail/taekwondo-6th-dan-test-part-7/1137860443) > > > > > > Good Lord! IS this a joke? > > > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car > listings at AOL Autos. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en- US?ocid=TAG_APRIL _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,300 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Jon Payne" To: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:56:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: test video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm closing on 40 and fatter than I should be but, OMG!!!!!!! At least I can still perform technique and, well heck, I don't know , maybe a twelve pack will make the way clearer. This is why my BJJ guys make fun of everyone. Except when I catch them in the teeth with a round kick!!!! Jon David Payne White Belt Texas Punishment Crew Gracie JiuJitsu --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:34:24 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 6yr old black belt? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Open questions or just food for thought--- If you are teaching Korean MA or claiming to teach Korean MA, should you be consisted with the way it is done in Korean today including belt promotions? In other words, since Koreans teach children and promote them to black belt (or poom) at young ages than one should follow this practice or call their teaching something other than Korean MA. If one does not teach children, which some schools in Korean do, than this question regarding children does not apply to this group. If you teach Korean MA such as TKD to children today and you are significantly more conservative with awarding black belts to children/students than in Korean or other KMA school in USA, are you being fair to your students? If so, please explain since their friends at other KMA schools may get promoted faster? DD member said -- ”I was in South Korea two years ago with quite a few of my students and fellow members of our organization and I was quite surprised to see 5 and 6 year old Korean children running around with black belts on. So to me, the meaning of the black belt is left up to the instructor handing them out.” DD member said – “I was in Korea on the trip that Master Miner referred to. I was also surprised at the very, very young Hapkido black belts. Had to laugh at all those times I heard about how hard it was in Korea, only in America are there young children sporting black belts, and things of the nature.” Master Fitzgerald **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Greg Hindley" To: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:25:49 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Test video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Petrotta, How embarrasing is that. Killed by the knife, beat down and cant break a 1 inch board after many tries. WOW. In the circles I run in its customary to break an inch per BB grade. If these men are testing for 6th Dan.................Sad. Cant believe someone put it on the net???? Respectfully Greg Hindley --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 6yr old black belt? Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:38:25 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Since many here have been involved with the Korean arts for several decades I guess it comes down to are we teaching the way we were taught which is still easier than the way our Korean instructors were taught? Or are we teaching the way they do it in Korea today? Personally I don't think we should go back to the way our Korean instructors were taught in the 1950s or early 60s. That was fairly brutal and would result in a lot of legal cost for us today. And I also do not think we should worry to much about how things are done this month in Korea (except perhaps from a technical perspective). Fwiw, students in Korea may receive their poom (or dan if they are old enough) in a year or so. But as I understand it they are often in class five days a week, and sometimes even helping out in demos on Sunday. It isn't the fairly typical 45 min class three days a week that we often see in the West. So them getting 1st poom in one year there vs. students in the West getting 1st poom in two to three years is -probably- about equal. Ray On Apr 26, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Johnjfitzg@aol.com wrote: > Open questions or just food for thought--- > If you are teaching Korean MA or claiming to teach Korean MA, > should you be > consisted with the way it is done in Korean today including belt > promotions? > In other words, since Koreans teach children and promote them to > black belt > (or poom) at young ages than one should follow this practice or > call their > teaching something other than Korean MA. If one does not teach > children, > which some schools in Korean do, than this question regarding > children does > not apply to this group. > If you teach Korean MA such as TKD to children today and you are > significantly more conservative with awarding black belts to > children/students than in > Korean or other KMA school in USA, are you being fair to your > students? If > so, please explain since their friends at other KMA schools may get > promoted faster? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest