Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #183 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 2. Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 3. Re: Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (Ray) 4. Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (rick.aodenkou@verizon.net) 5. (no subject) (Curt McCauley) 6. Re: Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 7. Canes (Ray) 8. Koreans are favorites (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:23:16 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Depending on what style and art your testing for ? If it's Ho Shin Sul, in my opinion, a special technique is something that YOU originated and not something already established by your instructor. For TKD (WTF) Koryo is always done to get your Black Belt in all school as far as I know. Although, it is up the your instructor as to what he/she establishes for your Black Belt testing requirements, i.e, forms, breaks, self defense, one, two, three step sparring etc.. The students I have had needed to know all the Palgwae and Taegeuk forms, as well as two original forms that subscribe to each philosophy and concepts of Palgwae and Taegeuk - as well as the forms of Kukkiwon for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th degrees Koryo Keumgang Taeback Pyongwon Sipjin All these forms are also done up to their level, i.e, for 5th dan, they do every form they were taught, from Il jang to Sipjin minimum. In addition to breaks, special techniques, new form they originated, and depending on their level, school work and or community work etc... Not so bad, oh did I mention sparring ? Its all good :)) Respectfully, Master Gregory Nabel 5th Dan # 05064895 www.GNabelmartialarts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 6:34 pm Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Does anyone have any idea what is considered to be "Special > technique" > > I think they mean Hoshinsul. > > Yes, the Kukkiwon's minimum requirements are, well, minimal. > Years > ago I was shocked to learn that Koryo was not a form that one > learned > for their Il Dan test. It is actually one you are supposed to > learn > for your E Dan test. But I think many instructors, esp those > outside > of Korea, use it earlier since you really don't have to learn a > new > form for your 1st Dan. > > Other instructors start to pull in forms from the Palgue set at > this > point to beef things up. > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:36:43 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I most certainly agree, my 1st degree black belt was awesome, not that I enjoy sweating and lots of more sweating... We had to do ALL the forms (Palgwae) & (Taegeuk) as well as a-made up form, do 1-2 & 3 step sparrings; push ups between all of this at a moments KiHaap!! Basic board breaks and then multiple board breaks and then multiple board breaks we had to make up ! and push-ups... Oh I forgot, we had to jog 5miles BEFORE we tested ! and finnaly, we were faced of against three Black Belts, a, 1st, 2nd &-3rd dan. We had to sparr them all at one time for One minute. Unfortunately ther were 5 sets of 3's !!! and then push ups to relax - of course on our knuckles - luckily we had carpeting ! and thats that !!! Its all Good !! Oh, my first teacher was the late GM Jung Nam Lee, out of Ft. Myers, Florida :)) Respectfully, Master Gregory Nabel 5th Dan #05064895 www.GNabelmartialarts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: rick.aodenkou@verizon.net Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:24 am Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hi > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Chris & Cindy Callahan wrote: > > So, this sounds like the person testing is only required to > perform 2 > forms...Taegeuk 8 and any one of Taegeuks 1 thru 7. > > To summarize, it seems the person testing only has to do: > (1) 2 Forms > (2) Sparring > (3) Breaking > (4) "Special technique" > > This appears to be consistent for ALL Dan levels.�� Is it just > me, or > does this seem too easy of a test for Dans? > > Personally, I have a 4th Dan Kukkiwon.�� My Grandmaster always > requiredmuch, much more than this for each of my black belts > tests.�� Which > brings up the next question: how much freedom does each master have > regarding what material is to be covered on the test? > > From my experience, the testing master has a lot of freedom to > customize the test how ever they wish.�� Wouldn't this create huge > differences in knowledge and ability between same level black > belts from > different master? > > If my observations are accurate, why would the Kukkiwon choose > to take > this approach to testing?�� I assume there is a reason for it...just > curious what that reason my be. > _______________________________________________ > > I could never begin to read the collective mind of the Kukkiwon - > and I > really don't think I would want to be able to do that :-) But, > perhapswhat you are seeing is a minimum requirement and they > understand that > individual instructors will have their own set of testing > requirements.Years ago I wrote an article that appeared in TKD > Times about the > purpose of testing. I'll try to post it on my web site, but in > a nut > shell - testing can serve two purposes. 1) it gives the student > a goal > to reach, you have to do something to get something - so it > becomes more > real. Rather than just giving the rank, people may not feel > that they > have "earned" the rank. But more important for me is 2) that it gives > me (as an instructor) the ability to judge how well I have > achieved my > teaching goals. If I see that there are a number of students > having a > problem in the same area then I can adjust my training schedule to > correct that area of concern. Or, it may give me a clue that I > am not > teaching in a way that adequately covers an area of study, so I > need to > look at my teaching method. > > So instructors may have tougher testing's to make the students > feel they > have earned their belts, and that they use the test for some > self-inspection of their teaching skills. BUT to be honest I'll bet > there are a lot of instructors who don't stop to think that any > shortcoming of their students is the fault of poor teaching skills. > > Rick Clark > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:57:31 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At a few, sure. But if they follow the Kukkiwon's published guidelines (available since 1970s) you'll see that only the Taegueks are required for Il Dan. -Officially- Koryo is the form for your E Dan test. http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01 The Palgues are no longer stressed and seldom mentioned. A loss... Ray On Jul 11, 2008, at 6:23 PM, shimmeringlight@optonline.net wrote: > For TKD (WTF) Koryo is always done to get your Black Belt in all > school as far as I know. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:08:09 -0500 (CDT) From: rick.aodenkou@verizon.net Subject: Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a question from an old timer, I started TKD aroud 1964 and had what I consider to be some very tough requirements to pass before I was allowed to test for my 1st dan, and then the test was rather strenious. We had to travel around 4 hours to get to a location to test, spend several nights in a motel and went to a lot of expense. I am wondering what others think about their experience, well - more in lines with - why do/did the instructors make getting your 1st dan so difficult and take so long? Then to go up through the grades takes quite some time as well. I have my suspisions but like I said I am curious to hear what some of the other old timers thing on this. In particular I am interested in hearing from folks that got their 1st dan in the late 60's or early 70's. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:50:55 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick Clark stated" "BUT to be honest I'll bet there are a lot of instructors who don't stop to think that any shortcoming of their students is the fault of poor teaching skills. I kinda have to agree with this. I have sat on testing boards where I have felt that the instructor should have been given the fail rather than the candidate, for letting the candidate show up for testing not completely prepared. Then of course there is always the just honest to gosh failure of the candidate for one reason or another. On the other hand I have also been on boards where some of the board members felt their job was to fail someone rather than look at the overall picture. Interesting stuff, this testing. Respectfully submitted Curt McCauley Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:03:22 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yea I know, wish my master followed them, it would of been alot easier.... I still have my students do ALL forms Bows, Master greg nabel :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Date: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > At a few, sure. But if they follow the Kukkiwon's published > guidelines (available since 1970s) you'll see that only the > Taegueks > are required for Il Dan. -Officially- Koryo is the form for > your E > Dan test. > > http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01 > > The Palgues are no longer stressed and seldom mentioned. A loss... > > > Ray > > > On Jul 11, 2008, at 6:23 PM, shimmeringlight@optonline.net wrote: > > > For TKD (WTF) Koryo is always done to get your Black Belt in > all > > school as far as I know. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 07:44:15 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Canes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Everybody Is 'Cane Fu' Fighting At Senior Centers, So Watch Out Older People Get Healthful Exercise And Learn to Wield a Ready Weapon By JENNIFER LEVITZ July 12, 2008 Wall Street Journal CENTERVILLE, Ohio - The St. Leonard retirement village here has a whole new way of thinking about recreation: Bingo has made way for cane fighting. "Down on top of the head and up between the groin!" urges instructor Debra Stewart, of nearby Chung's Academy of Martial Arts, commanding a dozen gray-haired students swinging canes at imaginary attackers. "Stomp him! Dig it in there. Do it hard!" Jim Ghory, an 82-year-old retired toolmaker, volunteers to take a few demonstration shots at Ms. Stewart, who has a black belt in tae kwon do, a Korean martial-arts discipline. "You want [it in] the collarbone or the ribs?" he asks. Senior centers and retirement communities are looking for new ways to promote exercise in order to stave off physical decline. Older people interested in honing their self-defense skills, meanwhile, are delighted to find that something they already own can be used as a weapon. "Oh my gosh, it's a huge hit," says Lena Mast, manager at Lodges at Naylor Mill, an independent-living complex for seniors in Salisbury, Md. Ms. Mast began offering cane classes for residents in April and says "it's now the top thing they look forward to." Mitchell's Martial Arts, the school hired by Lodges, says it is teaching cane fighting at five senior centers a week, up from one last year, and also has been demonstrating the cane at local health fairs. Cane Masters, in Incline Village, near Reno, Nev., one of a number of schools that report rising demand from seniors, expects to teach 110 cane-fighting classes around the country this year. Martial Oceans International, a California cruise company, is planning to offer its first classes in cane fighting on a trip to Mexico this month. On YouTube, a video titled "Granny C. Takes on the BulletMan!" shows an agile woman in her seventies jabbing and taking down a man in a helmet pretending in a cane class to be an intruder. Many credit the rise of cane fighting to Mark Shuey, a 61-year-old tae kwon do and hapkido expert who owns Cane Masters. Mr. Shuey started studying cane moves in earnest about 10 years ago while practicing hapkido, which incorporates stick fighting at advanced levels. At the time, his father was starting to use a walking stick, and he had heard reports of attacks on seniors who carried canes but didn't know how to use them to fight back. By 2003, the Canadian magazine Martial Arts Experts was calling canes "the weapon you can take anywhere." Cane fighting, also called "combat" cane or "cane fu," has been endorsed by at least eight martial-arts organizations. Instructors say any kind of cane is fine for self-defense, including aluminum canes or the wooden canes made of pine available at the drugstore. But best are hard-wood canes made of hickory or oak that don't easily break on impact. Mr. Shuey travels the world teaching his "American Cane System" curriculum to other martial-arts teachers. He says that in two years the number of instructors who teach it has tripled to about 300. The cane has a rich history as a weapon, notably in the U.S. Capitol. A number of 19th-century canings at the Capitol included a brutal 1856 attack on the Senate floor by South Carolina Rep. Preston Brooks on abolitionist Massachusetts Sen. Charles Sumner, who had mocked a relative of Mr. Brooks in a speech. Mr. Sumner was carried away unconscious and bleeding. It took him years to recover. Most of the seniors who take cane classes rarely wield them against anyone. But Bill Carter, a 56-year-old who took a class from Mr. Shuey in Florida a few years ago, says the instruction came in handy one day in April last year when he walked into his house in suburban Jacksonville to find an intruder in his kitchen taking TV dinners from the freezer. As the man approached him, "I popped him on the kneecap," Mr. Carter says, and "hooked him behind the neck, and was able to guide him to the door." Cane-fighting converts say one of the best things about the cane is that it's a legal weapon that can be carried anywhere, unconcealed. "No one will tell you can't take it on an airplane," says Victor Cushing, a 68-year-old who teaches women's self-defense at the University of Scranton, in Pennsylvania. The Department of Homeland Security says it does allow canes as carry- ons on planes. "Just like we allow walkers or crutches," says Carrie Harmon, spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration, a division of the department. But, she cautions, all these devices "have to go through the X-ray machine." According to the agency, baseball bats, cricket bats, bows and arrows, golf clubs, hockey sticks, pool cues, axes, hatchets, cattle prods, crowbars, billy clubs, brass knuckles, meat cleavers, ice picks, pellet guns, stun guns, spear guns, saws, swords, sabers and snow globes are also allowed -- but they must ride in the luggage compartment. Mr. Cushing doesn't need a cane for support but totes one everywhere. His repertoire of moves includes "bopping" the fragile bones on top of the foot ("now you've got an attacker who's limping away"), or whipping it against the shins ("hurts like the devil"). Senior centers refer to cane classes as a gentle form of exercise. But Mr. Cushing worries that some instructors are teaching overly fancy moves that could make older people lose their balance. Swinging the cane against the shins is one thing, he says, but "if you actually need the cane for balance, you can't be swinging it in the air." You'll fall over. Carol Vincent, an 85-year-old retired teacher, joined the classes at St. Leonard's, in Centerville, to feel safer on her daily walks in the woods. Ms. Vincent says she realized her own strength in an exercise where she had to use her cane to break the grip of a classmate who grabbed her from behind. "I think I hurt one woman," she said. "She's never been back; I shouldn't have pulled the cane so hard." John Myers, 66 and retired from a plant that made oil seals, was grabbed around the neck in a mock attack by Ms. Stewart's fellow instructor, Bob Dempsey. Mr. Myers's face reddened. He could feel himself getting angry. "I wanted to hit him," Mr. Myers said later. Instead, he used his cane to pull down and break his attacker's grip. Ms. Stewart coached, "Stomp on his foot, which is going to create some pain!" He did. Then, as taught, Mr. Myers jabbed the cane's tip behind him, into Mr. Dempsey's ribs. Mr. Dempsey fell back, feigning defeat, but later he described Mr. Myers as "ferocious." "He could take me down," Mr. Dempsey said. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:56:43 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Koreans are favorites Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Koreans are taekwondo favorites, but watch for the Lopez family from Texas July 12 International Herald Tribune You can't talk taekwondo without talking Korea. Koreans invented the sport, fought to get it in the Olympics — in Seoul in 1988 and then officially in Sydney in 2000 — and have dominated it ever since. Eight Koreans have entered the Olympic tournament, all have gone home with medals. So, let's get one obvious point out of the way — if there's a Korean in a bout when the feet start flying in Beijing, that competitor is probably the favorite. But if anyone can steal the spotlight, it's probably the fighting Lopez family of the United States. First, there's Steve, who has won the Olympic welterweight gold two times running and the past four world championships, making him the most decorated athlete in the sport. His little brother, Mark, got his first world championship in 2005, as did their kid sister, Diana. Coached by their oldest brother, Jean, they all will be fighting in Beijing. Let's take a step back on that one. All three Lopezes, who hail from Sugar Land, Texas, won at the 2005 world championships. That's never happened for three siblings in any sport. And, for the hard-core trivia fans, they are the first trio of siblings to make the U.S. Olympic team since 1904, when gymnasts Edward, Richard and William Tritschler accomplished the feat. For 25-year-old Mark and 23-year-old Diana, the Olympics are a new challenge, though Diana was an alternate in 2004. Both are featherweights. Jean, the coaching brother who got as far as the silver in the world championships during his own fighting days, said that just making sure they all got on the team, amid a great deal of hype, was the hardest part. The family's fighting style is more oriented toward winning international titles, where the competition is more predictable, he said. "There's just so many variables," he said, reflecting on the national qualifiers, at which Mark and Diana won their berths. Steve had already earned a spot by qualifying at the Olympic qualification tournament last September in Manchester, England. "We have a particular style of fighting, and I really believe our brand is a lot more effective on the international level." After the three were all in, Jean summed it up this way: "At this moment, everything is perfect." In taekwondo there are usually eight weight classes, but in the Olympics there are only four for each gender — flyweight, featherweight, welterweight and heavyweight — meaning eight gold medals. The total number of taekwondo entrants is also limited at the games to 128, and each nation can bring a maximum of four. Beijing's competition will be further streamlined. Instead of having a repechage system in which losers get another chance and only one bronze medal is awarded, Beijing will for the first time go with a single-elimination format — which is easier to schedule and puts less pressure on officials — and award two bronzes. Korea, whose athletes have been training in the northeast mountains of Hambaek, is looking for all of its entrants to win, taking home half the golds. That's a tall order, even for Korea. The Koreans earned two golds in Athens — the same as China and Taiwan — and took three of the eight in Sydney. Strongly tipped to win gold among them is Hwang Kyung-sun in the women's welterweight class. Hwang, who captured a bronze medal at the 2004 Games, is the first South Korean taekwondo athlete to compete at the Olympics twice. She cites Gladys Epangue of France as her biggest rival. The two have fought three times so far. Hwang beat Epangue in 2005 and 2007, but lost to the French player last year due to a calf injury. In the lightest division, Taiwan swept the gold in Athens — winning that country's first-ever gold medals — and will be looking for a repeat from Chen Shih-hsin in women's and Chu Mu-yen in men's. China's Chen Zhong, meanwhile, will be fighting for a three-peat, having won in Sydney and Athens. Chen is the odds-on favorite to take the women's heavyweight title again, having won the Asian championships over Nadin Dawani of Jordan in April. But it could be a close finish — her victory over Dawani went into overtime, and when no points were scored Chen was declared --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest