Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #184 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Specific Form At A Specific Rank (Chris & Cindy Callahan) 2. Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 3. Re: Specific Form At A Specific Rank (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 4. 3 in Korea (Ray) 5. Re: Specific Form At A Specific Rank (Ray) 6. Re: Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:50:43 -0400 From: Chris & Cindy Callahan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Specific Form At A Specific Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With this most recent talk about what rank Koryo is taught, I thought I would express the arrangement that I was brought up with. It shows what form we were taught while at a specific rank. 0 Gup - Kibon Poomse IL Jang (basic form - 1) 10 Gup - Kibon Poomse E Jang (basic form - 2) 9 Gup - Kibon Poomse SAM Jang (basic form - 3) 8 Gup - Taegeuk IL Jang 7 Gup - Taegeuk E Jang 6 Gup - Taegeuk SAM Jang 5 Gup - Taegeuk SA Jang 4 Gup - Taegeuk OH Jang 3 Gup - Taegeuk YOOK Jang 2 Gup - Taegeuk CHIL Jang 1 Gup - Taegeuk PAL Jang 1 Dan - Koryo 2 Dan - Keumgang etc. Curious how others differ. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 06:42:32 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bows, Hey Rick, Got my 1st dan in 1988. AND looking at the TKD schools these days - WOW is all I got ta say. I would guess, it was a Korean vs American thing to get a black belt. Now adays, its all about the money. We had four color belts... 1,2,3step sparring, fighting (sparring) multiple opponents, breaks and pushups and had to jog a few miles to boot. Ive been on some testing boards as well and agree, its wither tooo easy or someone is super strict. Imagin failing someone cause they are in a whhel chair, but can do an basic hapkido, hoshinsul, etc techniques - but cant do a spin around jump back kick. It is about the student and their philosophy, not to copy Bruce Lee.... ----- Original Message ----- From: rick.aodenkou@verizon.net Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:24 am Subject: Re: RE: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just a question from an old timer, I started TKD aroud 1964 and > had what > I consider to be some very tough requirements to pass before I > was > allowed to test for my 1st dan, and then the test was rather > strenious. > We had to travel around 4 hours to get to a location to test, > spend > several nights in a motel and went to a lot of expense. > > I am wondering what others think about their experience, well - > more in > lines with - why do/did the instructors make getting your 1st > dan so > difficult and take so long? Then to go up through the grades > takes > quite some time as well. I have my suspisions but like I said I > am > curious to hear what some of the other old timers thing on this. > In > particular I am interested in hearing from folks that got their > 1st dan > in the late 60's or early 70's. > > Rick Clark > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 06:31:37 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Specific Form At A Specific Rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bows, Hi... The masters can pretty well teach anything they want in any order. However, if your going for Kukkiwon, then there are certain standards as you have written..... Factually there are ONLY 8 forms each...either or both teageuak and or palgwe. Kukkiwon subscribes to 8 poomse, taegeuk, these days. WHen I cam thru the ranks we had only four colored belts in which to accomplish 16 forms, we did both. This day and age there are sometime up to ? 18 colored belts with all those stripes etc... some less. So, what do you think about that !? >From my dazs ( white , Yellow, Green, Blue, Red + ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris & Cindy Callahan Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008 12:04 am Subject: [The_Dojang] Specific Form At A Specific Rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > With this most recent talk about what rank Koryo is taught, I > thought I > would express the arrangement that I was brought up with. It > shows what = Black) to every color+ in addition to striped on each colored belt... Oh well ! WHat would you say is the best, 4 colors or 18 ? or somewhere in between ? master greg nabel www.gnabelmartialarts.com > form we were taught while at a specific rank. > > 0 Gup - Kibon Poomse IL Jang (basic form - 1) > 10 Gup - Kibon Poomse E Jang (basic form - 2) > 9 Gup - Kibon Poomse SAM Jang (basic form - 3) > 8 Gup - Taegeuk IL Jang > 7 Gup - Taegeuk E Jang > 6 Gup - Taegeuk SAM Jang > 5 Gup - Taegeuk SA Jang > 4 Gup - Taegeuk OH Jang > 3 Gup - Taegeuk YOOK Jang > 2 Gup - Taegeuk CHIL Jang > 1 Gup - Taegeuk PAL Jang > 1 Dan - Koryo > 2 Dan - Keumgang > etc. > > Curious how others differ. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:05:03 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] 3 in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As promised, from 1999... 3x3 = 9. Thus Korean arts typically start at 9th gup, not 10th. It was originally just explained to me that three was very important in the Korean culture because the number three was indicative of earth, man, and the heavens. But I wanted to find a little something more given that this view has been challenged by some in the past, so I went to the very interesting Korea Insights website (http://korea.insights.co.kr). An excellent resource on the Korean culture provided by the Samsung Foundation of Culture. One of the items documented there is "3 in Korea". The following is quoted directly: "Koreans have always had a special attachment for the number three. This sottae (graphic of a wooden post with 3 wooden ducks mounted on the top is omitted here), one of the many 'spirit posts' found at the entrance to rural villages across the country, is topped by three ducks, symbolizing prosperity and fertility as well as agrarian society's affinity for water. The number three has had profound significance since ancient times. Koreans have long believed that the harmonious balance of three elements -- the heavens, earth and human energy -- essential to all existence, and Koreans' affinity for the number remains powerful today." "Korean thought and religion is replete with threes, symbolizing completion and perfection. Tan'gun, Korean's mythical founder, was a triune figure, simultaneously a creator, teacher and temporal ruler. Buddhism centers around the trinity of the Buddha, his teachings and the Buddhist community. The number also figures prominently in folks belief. For example, when a son is born, the kumjul, or 'forbidding rope' hung across the gate of the house, is decorated with three red peppers and three pieces of charcoal." "In traditional society, children were expected to mourn their parents for three years after their death. Today most funerals are held three days after death, and three bows before the memorial alter are standard at rites paying homage to ancestors." "Much of Korea's traditional music follows a three-beat rhythm, and Korean food revolves around the three condiments: soy sauce, bean paste and red pepper paste. Many of the spirits found in folks religions come in threes, as do the decorations worn with the national costume, hanbok. In fact, it is difficult to find an aspect of Korean life that does not feature the number three." In addition, in the website's item describing "T'aeguk, the Supreme Ultimate. ... the three-part t'aeguk symbolizes the heaven, earth and humanity. Each part is separate but the three parts exist in unity and are equal in value. As the yin and yang of the Supreme Ultimate merge and make a perfect circle, so do heaven, earth and humanity create the universe. Therefore the Supreme Ultimate and the three-part t'aeguk both symbolize the universe." --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Specific Form At A Specific Rank Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:20:48 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Very similar except we keep it traditional. A student walks in the door as a 9th gup. In traditional Korean arts you go from 9th gup to 9th dan. I'll repost something here in a bit that gives insight into the Korean view toward 3 and 3x3 (9). Ray On Jul 12, 2008, at 7:50 PM, Chris & Cindy Callahan wrote: > With this most recent talk about what rank Koryo is taught, I > thought I would express the arrangement that I was brought up with. > It shows what form we were taught while at a specific rank. > > 0 Gup - Kibon Poomse IL Jang (basic form - 1) > 10 Gup - Kibon Poomse E Jang (basic form - 2) > 9 Gup - Kibon Poomse SAM Jang (basic form - 3) > 8 Gup - Taegeuk IL Jang > 7 Gup - Taegeuk E Jang > 6 Gup - Taegeuk SAM Jang > 5 Gup - Taegeuk SA Jang > 4 Gup - Taegeuk OH Jang > 3 Gup - Taegeuk YOOK Jang > 2 Gup - Taegeuk CHIL Jang > 1 Gup - Taegeuk PAL Jang > 1 Dan - Koryo > 2 Dan - Keumgang > etc. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Requirements For Kukkiwon Testing Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:32:59 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s it was difficult to obtain a black belt. The fewer there is of something the more difficult it is to obtain same. They made it tough to obtain a black belt so that it would remain a special distinction, something difficult to attain. As time progressed, schools commercialized and the student base changed from mostly adults to mostly little kids. At the same time came along the billing companies with their black belt clubs, instructor clubs, special uniform clubs, etc. More and more students easily obtaining a black belt meant more and more $ for the kwanjang (school owner). IMHO Ray On Jul 11, 2008, at 10:08 PM, rick.aodenkou@verizon.net wrote: > Just a question from an old timer, I started TKD aroud 1964 and had > what > I consider to be some very tough requirements to pass before I was > allowed to test for my 1st dan, and then the test was rather > strenious. > We had to travel around 4 hours to get to a location to test, spend > several nights in a motel and went to a lot of expense. > > I am wondering what others think about their experience, well - more > in > lines with - why do/did the instructors make getting your 1st dan so > difficult and take so long? Then to go up through the grades takes > quite some time as well. I have my suspisions but like I said I am > curious to hear what some of the other old timers thing on this. In > particular I am interested in hearing from folks that got their 1st > dan > in the late 60's or early 70's. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest