Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:48:22 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #193 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #190 - article and response from rick aodenkou (Robert Burns) 2. To 40 and BEYOND! (Robert Wood) 3. The Dojang -- Toi Gye (Donne Flanagan) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:22:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Burns To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #190 - article and response from rick aodenkou Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net   2. RE: Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #186 -From:       rick.aodenkou@verizon.net re: Chang Hun Toi-Gye tul (rick.aodenkou@verizon.net)   Message: 2 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 07:36:16 -0500 (CDT) From: rick.aodenkou@verizon.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #186 -From:   rick.aodenkou@verizon.net Hi Rick;  Again, thanks for the "unintentional" instruction.  I firmly believe that any "knowledgeable" instruction beats "no instruction or mistaken or half-way instruction" no matter the source.  We all learn by "learning" and not by simple trial and error.  I really appreciate your feedback and the URL to your web site.  I have forwarded the site on to my GM for his students to review, with the hope that in some small way, they will be better for the information and more knowledgeable in the future of their learning.  As all good instructors know, you don't give a student too much information...TOO SOON.  Sometimes its best to allow them to assimilate basic information and learn to process it rationally; some of the students invariably arrive at the correct crossroads in your teachings, ready for more information, while some seem caught in a vortex of indecision and lack of direction.  The trained eye of the instructor usually determines which is which, and then proceeds to instruct the students in which ever way is most appropriate to their learning skills and ability  The articles will, I hope, prove to be useful to me and others in their future attempts to improve and expand their knowledge of MA. Bob Burns, 2nd Dan TKD Hi Robert, > Thanks for the "reminder" concerning fighting stances and strength movements; I think this is a point that many people tend to overlook.  Stances and the transition from one to the next give you the ability to generate strength or conversely to have little or no power behind a technique. > I've only been practicing MA, and in particular TKD and  Hapkido and > Kung Fu and Jeet Koondo for about 7 1/2 years; I'm sure, from your > comments, you've got at least 10 years or more on me, and have more > competition and meets by far. :-)  a couple, I started in 1962. >  However, I was only pointing out what an 8th and 9th Dan Gr. Masters > were teaching, not  what would or should be used in actual > competition.  >  You are, of course, entirely correct in your evaluation of the > movements, vis-a-vis actual sparring; I was simply pointing out a > "poomsee" being  taught in preparation for 3rd Dan, This is really where I would like you and others to give a bit of thought.  What is the purpose of forms (kata, hyung, poomsee)?  What was the purpose of them 100 or more years ago and has that changed in the modern time?  The short answer for me is that "Forms" teach you the system you are practicing, and give you the tools to defend yourself in a "real life situation".  Books, DVD, magazines, etc. were not something you had back then.  Literacy was much lower then, so forms were the way you could pass on information. In the modern era we lost sight of the purpose of forms.  We see musical forms, people making up forms, heck even high ranking individuals taking the old forms (pinan/heain/pyung-ahn as an example) and throwing them in a blender, adding kicks, and calling them ancient forms taught to them by some old guy.  Or simply being open about it and saying they made up new forms for their style or association. >  (concerning lifting the arms suddenly while doing a double elbow > strike, then placing both hands on hips and moving the elbows > synchonously >  right to left to block kicks with the  elbows) (whether or not it > would be effective in sparring or actual combat was never my position, > nor would I, >  as a 2nd Dan ever be so bold to suggest such  a movement or defense > in this forum) Ah here is where it get's good for me.  You mentioned the technique so I suspect it's something you were taught. > which I hope to take and pass this coming December in Indianapolis.  I stopped sparring  when I reached 68 years of age (I'm now 71 and I started MA when I was 63 years old).  I have to commend you on taking up TKD at 63, a age when most would be more comfortable sitting back and watching TV or doing a hobbie that does not require so much from you.  So what I would ask from you and others is to develop your critical thinking, or in a more crude way learn to use your BS detector.  If someone gives you and explanation for something don't just take it at face value based on the rank or status of the person.  If someone tells you such and such a move will let you defend yourself from 2 people in opposite directions at the same time, or you are doing something that would only work with a compliant partner. I have a few articles I have wrote up on my web http://ao-denkou-kai.org/articles.htm you might find them of interest. I have had a rather strong interest in forms and various applications for a few years now. > Again, thanks for the cogent reminder and your words of wisdom, which > I'm sure were meant only to instruct. I am not so bold as to try to instruct on this list, because I am not your (or others) instructor. But rather to further a conversation on which I have a real interest, forms and their applications. > Bob Burns, 2nd Dan Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Robert Wood To: Dojang Digest Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:16:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] To 40 and BEYOND! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To begin with my 19 year old son and I went to see the Dark Knight (good movie) and the young lady behind the ticket counter issued me a Senior Ticket w/o asking me my age (OUCH!); my son was happy as he was buying the tickets ;). I am 47 years old and have been training in TKD for over 4 years now. I was an Air Force Security Policeman for over 20 years and aside for “hand to hand combat” and “Silent sentry removal” I picked up a little of this (HKD) and a little of that (Karate) over the years. My son and I started training about two years after I retired for some “father and son” time. Today my family (wife and son) are martial artists (TKD and Tai Chi). My knees (three surgeries between the two) do not like jumpy spiny kicks; however I do my best. Come 4 Aug 08 we, my family, will begin teaching classes at local fitness center. The journey has strengthened us as a family physically, emotionally, and spiritually. My advice to anyone who refuses to begin because of their age is missing an enriching experience, besides I looked all over my body and have not found an expiration date. I guess what I am trying to say is age is a fact; old is an attitude. in His service, Rob Wood Knowing is not enough, you must apply...Willing is not enough, you must do. -- Bruce LeeI am careful not confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is God's business -- Michael J. Fox _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ Refresh_messenger_video_072008 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:30:39 -0500 From: "Donne Flanagan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The Dojang -- Toi Gye Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You will be hard pressed to find better examples out there on the web than these two clips. You will get a good idea of how it's performed properly anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=revsiIYyc-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUoo5Na8dUQ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest