Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:48:22 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #255 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=AS_SEEN_ON,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: ** Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hard Training (Artcrane) 2. Re: Schools (Zisheged@aol.com) 3. Re: Re: Schools (daomyer@aol.com) 4. RE: Re: Schools (Michael Munyon) 5. what is a 'real' school? (sidekicks) 6. RE: Kukki-poomsae (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 7. STUDENTS (Robert Wood) 8. Re: Re: Split personality in martial arts (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Artcrane" To: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:28:17 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hard Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In my opinion, the problem with the hard training is the fear of Law Suits. Most TKD Schools are basically After School Programs and day care places which helps them pay the bills. But the programs are over early enough to put some quality Martial Art programs into the classes. Another problem is the lack of instructors, mainly because the school cannot or will not pay what is actually needed to get and keep a quality instructor. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Zisheged@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:42:04 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Schools Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The schools I visited were all WTF. I believe ITF is a superior form to WTF, keeping in mind that I am WTF. ZEISHE **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Schools Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:14:27 -0400 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I disagree and I have trained in both. Its?about the teacher and the practicioner. Dave O. -----Original Message----- From: Zisheged@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 8:42 pm Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Schools The schools I visited were all WTF. I believe ITF is a superior form to WTF, keeping in mind that I am WTF. ZEISHE **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Michael Munyon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Schools Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:16:38 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I too have done both WTF and ITF. I did Moo Duk Kwan TKD and ITF over the last 10 plus years. I had good instructors in both. The politics however are way different. WTF had more politics and cost more money. That is only from my experience. I agree with Dave O on this topic. However...currently being ITF I loved the compliment about the ITF. :) -----Original Message----- From: daomyer@aol.com [mailto:daomyer@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:14 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Schools I disagree and I have trained in both. Its?about the teacher and the practicioner. Dave O. -----Original Message----- From: Zisheged@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 8:42 pm Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Schools The schools I visited were all WTF. I believe ITF is a superior form to WTF, keeping in mind that I am WTF. ZEISHE **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "sidekicks" To: Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:57:38 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] what is a 'real' school? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quote: > I found one school in Queens, three in Manhattan, none in Brooklyn, one in > the Bronx and I dare say mine is in Staten Island, where there is hard > training as a rule in TKD. All the rest, and I've visited at least 40 > schools, are > nothing but after school kiddy programs. There is a place for "TKD Lite" I > guess. But I'd love to see more REAL schools. Trouble is that is very hard > to > make a living with just dedicated students. They are too few and often > gravitate to more rigorous forms of martial arts. I agree, Olympic TKD is > stultifying > dull. I wonder if competitions had a cash purse if the rigor would > return? > Zeishe End quote please kind sir, explain to me what a 'real' school is? and while you are explaining, please clarify who labelled yours as a 'real' school so that the rest of us may know. if you can forgive my sarcasm, i get so sick and tired of 'real' this and 'hardcore' that or, it used to be this way when i was coming up through the ranks. PLEASE!! is the ufc type fighting real? what about the 50 year old gentleman who shows up for class every night, puts in his blood, sweat and tears and gets up and goes to work the next day? or the 14year old child who decides to go to class that night instead of hanging out with his bad ass friends? What about the 12 year old child who is mentally about 6, cant tie his shoes, but gives it everything he can, are any of these people training at a 'real' school? How about the child who is in a wheel chair, but still gets picked up every day by one of these 'kiddy' after school programs, shows up for every class, no matter how hard it gets defies every dr.'s prediction? are any of these students training at a 'real' school? Please tell me what a 'real' school is because i dont think i know what one is. There are so many different opinions and attitudes as to what it should be. We all do what we think is right. i am willing to bewt that the mma guys would loook at what you do and say it isnt real. Its called perspective. it depends on what side of it you sit on... Dusty --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukki-poomsae Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:00:04 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net So true I've taken up a bit of yoga and meditation a local Sikh temple. This has alone has been an eye opener in more ways than one. But being in the Sikh temple ahs also led me to look at an Indian martial art called Gatka. There are quite a few videos on youtube. Anyway I don't want to go on about it too much but it has re-energised my focus on martial arts. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Rick Clark [mailto:rick.aodenkou@verizon.net] Sent: 19 September 2008 03:29 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kukki-poomsae Hi Peter, > From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk > Well done Rick. When I have a couple of hours free I'll have to do > some > more reading up! But it's good to know that we agree on a few things > and > I've learnt a few bits too. BOW. > Peter [Rick Clark] Thanks! One thing I have always been good about is developing a good library - and reading the silly things. I don't care what the topic of martial arts I think it's important of those of us that teach learn as much as we can about other martial arts and their history and traditions. Rick Clark _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net **************************************************************************** LONDON FIRE BRIGADE Live in London? Free home safety visits - free smoke alarm? Freephone 08000 28 44 28 Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email intended solely for the addressee and is confidential. If you receive this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender immediately. If you are not the addressee please note that any distribution, copying or use of the information in this email may be unlawful. Email transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message that arise as a result of email transmission, including any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening emails or their attachments. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Robert Wood To: Dojang Digest Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:19:49 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] STUDENTS Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I asked my instructors one time about a certain student that just came in and was going through the motions of training. I asked how could you NOT demanding that the put out 100% effort. Then she said a very wise thing…some students just pay the rent and some students are a joy to teach. I carry that nugget around with me to this day. It helps me when I become frustrated with a student (child or adult) or need to deal with a “dojang mom” or dojang dad”. I do not like Olympic TDK, it portraits TDK as a spectacle, with no martial value (read self-defense). The Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) craze feeds the audience’s need for a quick fix. MMA fighters talk about how traditional MA is outdated and that they, the MMA fighter, claimed t the top of their sport in a short time. There is a lack of humility, of service, of sacrifice to their “art”. Traditional Martial Arts (TMA) translates to a commit to humility, to service, to sacrifice to our arts. Some may say that MMA fighters contribute blood, sweat, and tears to their “art”; however we TMA do that and more. I say that kiddy TKD has a place, if we can instill respect for others, honor, courage to do what is right, and perseverance. OK I’ll get off my soap box. in His service, Rob Wood Knowing is not enough, you must apply...Willing is not enough, you must do. -- Bruce LeeI am careful not confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is God's business -- Michael J. Fox _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Split personality in martial arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:16:15 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hear they've invented a pill for that. Victor Dodge zisheged@aol.com 09/19/2008 09:05 To PM the_dojang@martialartsresource.net cc Please respond to Subject the_dojang@martia [The_Dojang] Re: Split personality lartsresource.net in martial arts Funny thing martial arts....most people want to train light as is found today in many TKD schools. At the same time there is incredible interest in UFC style MMA as seen on cable tv.? I guess people wish they could be tough without the work? Zeishe _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest