Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:48:21 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #274 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Bad old training (Timothy Walker) 2. Re: Glass neck bottle slicing (zisheged@aol.com) 3. Re: RE: Pain Distraction - Self-defense (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 4. Re: Bad old training (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Timothy Walker To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:28:23 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bad old training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Yeah, I just can't see the wizened old Master telling Kwai Chang Kaine, "When you can snatch the kick pad from my hand, it will be time for you to go." Timo --__--__-- Message: 2 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:53:13 -0400 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Glass neck bottle slicing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I remember a master back in the 60's that made students chop the top of glass bottles with a lateral knife hand. True, they wore wool gloves, but I can't help but think how incredibly stupid this was. Wouldn't ice frozen in a bottle mold have done as well? Zishe --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:33:19 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Pain Distraction - Self-defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, In respects to martial arts / self defense... and the proper use of force; Anyone... can sue, anyone, for anything. Which can include and is not limited to , the "primary person being sued, as well as , secondary, third party so on and so forth. When teaching in the classroom, someone's basement, garage, even the police academies, etc.. anything used can be used against the original person who taught it . So, when you teach, anywhere, especially at the academy of MA or corrections or police... be certain to ensure your curriculum has lessons on the legalities of use of force. Thanks Respectfully, gregory nabel peace:) ----- Original Message ----- From: aburrese@aol.com Date: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:55 am Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Pain Distraction - Self-defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Jye was mad at a story I told about prosecuting a guy for > assault. I’ve > used this story when teaching justified use of force classes at > seminars with > Marc MacYoung and a friend who is a FAM. This story is also in > the legal > chapter of a book I’m working on. Why? Because you not > only have to > protect yourself from someone who might do you physical harm, > but you must > protect yourself from the courts as well. In my first book, I > mentioned how > my friend Peyton Quinn told me about his “Stay out of jail” > plan. That’s a good idea. > >  > > Legally, self-defense is an affirmative defense. You are > admitting you hurt > someone which is unlawful, but you claim you have a justified > reason to do > it. That is why self-defense is also called justified use of > force. >  > > I no longer work in a prosecutor’s office. But when I did, I > was handed a > file and told to try it. That was my job, that’s what I did. > >  > > Jye said, “I hate the fact that someone who wasn't there can > > dictate whether a person was a threat or not.” > >  > > Remember, the police officer was there. I had a police report, > I interviewed > the cop, and then had the cop testify on stand. The cop saw > the guy on the > ground with the broken ankle. The cop saw the other person > kicking him while > he was down with the broken ankle. The guy told the cop, “I > had to get > my licks in.” The law enforcement officer saw all of this. I > took the > facts given to me, and based on the law, prosecuted the person > who was found > guilty of assault. He did not have a justified reason to kick > the guy on the > ground who had a broken ankle and was no longer a threat. > >  > > Jye, you might not be fond of the law, and I’ll tell you, > there are many > laws I disagree with as well. However, as long as we are > living in this > society, we have to deal with the laws. The reason I tell this > story, and > have it in the legal chapter of a book I’m working on, is to > help people > realize that there are legal consequences for violence, and I > try to make > people understand how they can keep themselves out of jail as > well as out of > the hospital. You won’t find someone more pro self-defense > than I. Why > do you think I teach, write, speak, do dvds, etc. on Hapkido and > Self-defense. But I think it would be negligent on my part to > teach “kill > em all and let God sort them out” knowing that that kind of > attitude may put > someone behind bars. I want people safe, but I want them out > of jail too. > >  > > Different states will vary regarding the self-defense laws, but > the Model > Penal Code provides, “a person is justified in the use of > force against an > aggressor when and to the extent it appears to him and he > reasonably believes > that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another again > st such aggressor’s imminent use of unlawful force. One who > is not the > aggressor in an encounter is justified in using a reasonable > amount of force > against his adversary when he reasonably believes: a) that he is > in immediate > danger of unlawful bodily harm from his adversary and b) that > the use of such > force is necessary to avoid this danger. > >  > > My buddy the FAM in our presentations (we have co-taught this > stuff in CO a > few times) always makes people aware that they must be able to > articulate to > the law enforcement officer they were in fear for their life. > Creatingwitnesses also works in your favor. (that’s a whole > longer topic) > Telling a police officer “I had to get my licks in” as the > guy I > prosecuted did, is not only dumb, but STUPID. That’s another > reason why I > advocate you don’t talk to cops. Wait for your lawyer. > (That’s a whole > different part of the chapter as well) And yes, it can be a > good idea to > know a good defense attorney, and even have one on retainer just > in case. > >  > > Jye, yes – must do what you have to do to survive! I told my > class last > night that you must have the attitude of survival and do what is > necessary to > make sure you go home. I used the guy who killed the bear with > a large stick > as an example of that attitude. (If you didn’t read about > that, do a > google search. Guy was attacked by a bear and killed it by=2 > 0pounding on the bear’s head with a stick) > >  > > However – You must also be able to articulate your actions to > police (with > your lawyer) and possibly to a jury or judge if it goes that > far. (If you do > a good enough job with the police, it probably won’t be > prosecuted. Prosecutors don’t want cases they will lose. > With the facts I had, the cop > seeing the downed guy not fighting, the comment about getting > his licks in, > etc. I had a softball lobbed my direction. Pretty tough to > lose that one. > >  > > That’s the point of that story. Protect yourself on both > fronts. From > bad guys, and from the Courts. This was just a quick response this > morning. I’ll have a lot more in the legal chapter of my > next book. > > > > Yours in Training, > > Alain > > www.burrese.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:36:10 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bad old training To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Indomitable spirit , to quote a movie line... "Why do we fall down? To LEARN how to get up".. Indomitable spirit is not the exercise, its the try try again.... Respectfully, gregory nabel peace:) ----- Original Message ----- From: zisheged@aol.com Date: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:55 am Subject: [The_Dojang] Bad old training To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I love to harken back to the "good" old days in the early 1960's > when we trained so hard!? But...upon reflection...some of what > we did was nonsensical and downright harmful. Striking the > makiwara until our knuckles were bloody was pretty dumb. We > risked blood born pathogens and infections. Striking trays of > sand and pebbles...dumb.? Unpadded sparring where we all sported > blood on our dobaks risked multiple diseases and more severe > body trauma. Various forms of stretching that ripped cartilage > also wasn't the smartest. True, we were pretty tough but so many > guys from that period have arthritis and other issues. We train > smarter now as a rule, a bit too easy in fact. We need much more > imput from exercise professionals, sport medicine, > kinesiologists and good trainers. Many of my students raise a > stink when we have weight training and pool sparring and > exercise. I get more cooperation from the little girls that come > from dance class than from grown men. Americans as a whole are > soft. We need that indominable spirit we learned about. > > > Zeishe > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest