Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 21:58:01 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #299 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. ITF FORMS (bjpritch@comcast.net) 2. Re: 10h dans (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 3. Re: 10th dan and other belt issues (zisheged@aol.com) 4. Kukkiwon's Dan rank timeframe and requirements (Ray) 5. Re: ITF FORMS (mdealba@comcast.net) 6. what do you think? (Jye nigma) 7. Re: Video clip: freesparring (timdnml@comcast.net) 8. Video Clip: Sparring clips (Jye nigma) 9. Re: what do you think? (James O'Connor) 10. Re: ITF FORMS (Ray) 11. RE: what do you think? (Rick Clark) 12. Re: what do you think? (James O'Connor) 13. Re: ITF FORMS (mdealba@comcast.net) 14. Re: 10h dan (J R Hilland) 15. USAT Director recommendation (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: bjpritch@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:27:46 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF FORMS Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know where I can find the ITF forms in a viewable format for the I-touch? I'd like to use it as a quick ref if at all possible. Yours in the Arts, BJ Pritchett --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:56:43 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 10h dans To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Its amazing how many 10degree black belts there are in assorted arts here on long island !!! Anyway... I maybe wrong please advise, I was under the impression that getting one's next belt "usually" had some sort of time frame ? On-the-Average... 2 years to attain 1st dan 2yrs for 2nd 3 for 3rd 4 for 4th 5 for 5th 6 for 6th 7 for 7th 8 for 8th dan 9 years for 9th dan 10 year wait for 10th dan (wait ten years for next test for your 10th dan ? Whats that about in years... ? To get ones 5th degree, you put a total of about, 16years? 1st dan = 2yrs 2nd = 4 3......... 7 4........ 11 5........ 16 6....... 21 7....... 28 8...... 36 9..... 45 10.. 55 years of "training" ? SO, is this about right / ?? Thanks greg:) GHornet LOL ah those were the dazs...... ----- Original Message ----- From: zisheged@aol.com Date: Monday, November 3, 2008 10:15 am Subject: [The_Dojang] 10h dans To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The Kukkiwon has only awarded four standard 10th dan to the > following men: Byong Lo Lee, Chong Soo Hong, Il Sup Chun and Nam > Suk Lee. The WTF has also awarded two "honorary" Kukkiwon 10th > dan, both to individuals who were members of the IOC. The WTF, > WTF Member National Associations and the Kukkiwon issue many > honorary dans to political and non-political persons who make a > contribution to the growth of taekwondo.? It took a long time to > find out who got these 10th dans. Strangely though, the > executive committee of the kukkiwon?outranks these 10th dans as > far as decision making is concerned. the 10th dans are held in > high veneration but do not have specific duties. In fact, I'm > not sure if any of these 10th dans are still alive. > > Zeishe > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:57:13 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 10th dan and other belt issues Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First, when I started in 1963, brown belt in MooDukKwan was the belt right before black. One day my Master, Richard Chun came into the dojang to tell us that red was now higher than brown. I believe that white, blue, red then black is the way its done in Korea. I recently saw a red/white/blue belt as deputy black belt. Second, 10th dan was a posthumous rank at some point and later given to those Grandmasters uniting with Taekwondo. 10th dan is an anethma to Korean culture, so it appears to me that 9th dan is the only real highest rank. Personally, I feel it ought to be white belt until black belt and maybe ONLY one 10th dan.? It doesn't really matter in the long run because although I've been training since 1963 and have high rank I STILL can't do a flying scissor kick worth a damn! Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 18:35:16 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon's Dan rank timeframe and requirements Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Time and age limits for Poom or Dan Promotion Poom/Dan Minium time required Age limits for promotion for promotion start from Dan start from Poom 1st Poom - - younger than 15 years old 1st to 2nd Poom 1 year - younger than 15 years old 2nd to 3rd Poom 2 years - younger than 15 years old 1st Dan - 15 years or older - 1st to 2nd Dan 1 year 16 years or older 15 years or older 2nd to 3rd Dan 2 years 18 years or older 16 years or older 3rd to 4th Dan 3 years 21 years or older 18 years or older 4th to 5th Dan 4 years 25 years or older 22 years or older 5th to 6th Dan 5 years 30 years or older 30 years or older 6th to 7th Dan 6 years 36 years or older 36 years or older 7th to 8th Dan 8 years 44 years or older 44 years or older 8th to 9th Dan 9 years 53 years or older 53 years or older 9th to 10th Dan - 60 years or older 60 years or older Specified subjects of practical techniques applied to the Poom or Dan promotion tests. Poomsae(Test Subject) Poom/Dan Selective (Choose one) Compulsory 1st Dan (Poom) Taeguk 1-7 Taeguk 8 2nd Dan (Poom) Taeguk 1-8 Koryo 3rd Dan (Poom) Taeguk 1-8, Koryo Keumgang 4th Dan Taeguk 1-8, Koryo, Keumgang Taeback 5th Dan Taeguk 1-8, Koryo, Keumgang Pyongwon, Shipjin Taeback 6th Dan Koryo, Keumgang, Taeback, Shipjin, Jitae Pyongwon, Shipjin 7th Dan Koryo, Keumgang, Taeback, Jitae, Dhunkwon Pyongwon, Shipjin, Jitae 8th Dan Pyongwon, ShipJin, Jitae, Hansoo Chunkwon 9th Dan Pyongwon, Shipjin, Jitae, Ilyeo Chunkwon, Hansoo 10th Dan Decided by the Judgement of Technical Committee --__--__-- Message: 5 From: mdealba@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ITF FORMS Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:26:26 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings Sir, Let's see if this is helpful: T.K.D. Black Belt Patterns 1st Dan – Chungmoo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ4t-FxvYUw 2nd Dan – Koryo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTU0jnGs4G0&feature=related 3rd Dan – lKeumgang http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=347xYQMgqI8 4th Dan – Taebaek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dmac0mfK0 4th – 5th Dan – Pyeongwon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BZA_-6V7I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHR0qmfcgJg&feature=related 5th – 6th Dan – Sipjin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-eeNkPUa4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF5G0ZrlZKg&feature=related 6th – 7th Dan – Jitae http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-E8dHQrWgo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBgyQnUsvhc&feature=related 7th – 8th Dan – Cheonkwon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U0WQ0AANzQ 8th – 9th Dan – Hansoo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxfH22t1uU 9th –10th Dan – Ilyo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5kUn4USdw I hope this is what you were looking for. If so I am glad to help. With much respect and brotherhood, Grand Master Michael De Alba -- **CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE** This email communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use ofthe designated recipient named above. Distribution, reproduction or any other use of this transmission by any party other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: bjpritch@comcast.net > Does anyone know where I can find the ITF forms in a viewable format for the > I-touch? I'd like to use it as a quick ref if at all possible. > > Yours in the Arts, > BJ Pritchett > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:44:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] what do you think? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Take a listen to this brother's approach to teaching martial arts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askQI8RUHCM   What do you all think about not reserving certain knowledge for specific levels?   Jye --__--__-- Message: 7 From: timdnml@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:29:20 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Video clip: freesparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net < To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video Clip: Sparring clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net itf sparring:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7UnCmgU1Ao&feature=related    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQppVPWSdQ&feature=related   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W3mSFkzOss&feature=related --__--__-- Message: 9 From: James O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] what do you think? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:51:28 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > Take a listen to this brother's approach to teaching martial arts: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askQI8RUHCM > > What do you all think about not reserving certain knowledge for > specific > levels? I've always thought that when it comes to self-defense "What you teach me today I may need tonight" The student doesn't get to choose the time and the place. It may take time to grok the subtly of certain concepts and mechanics but, whatever you teach at any level should be immediately practical and applicable. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ITF FORMS Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:04:05 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think the request was for ITF forms. What is listed below are WTF/ Kukkiwon forms, save for Chungmoo. Ray On Nov 4, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Michael wrote: > Greetings Sir, > Let's see if this is helpful: > > T.K.D. Black Belt Patterns > > 1st Dan – Chungmoo > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ4t-FxvYUw > > 2nd Dan – Koryo > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTU0jnGs4G0&feature=related > > > 3rd Dan – lKeumgang > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=347xYQMgqI8 > > 4th Dan – Taebaek > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dmac0mfK0 > > 4th – 5th Dan – Pyeongwon > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BZA_-6V7I > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHR0qmfcgJg&feature=related > > 5th – 6th Dan – Sipjin > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-eeNkPUa4 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF5G0ZrlZKg&feature=related > > 6th – 7th Dan – Jitae > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-E8dHQrWgo > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBgyQnUsvhc&feature=related > > > 7th – 8th Dan – Cheonkwon > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U0WQ0AANzQ > > 8th – 9th Dan – Hansoo > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxfH22t1uU > > 9th –10th Dan – Ilyo > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5kUn4USdw > > I hope this is what you were looking for. If so I am glad to help. > With much respect and brotherhood, > Grand Master Michael De Alba --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:27:51 -0500 From: Rick Clark Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] what do you think? To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, I've always thought that when it comes to self-defense "What you teach me today I may need tonight" Several years back I drilled a wrist lock, for some students first class. That night a young lady from the class had her wrist grabbed as she tried to get in her car. She did the wrist lock (nikyo) and heard a snap and got away safe and sound. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 12 From: James O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] what do you think? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:53:29 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:27 AM, Rick Clark wrote: > Hi, > I've always thought that when it comes to self-defense "What you > teach me today I may need tonight" > > > Several years back I drilled a wrist lock, for some students first > class. That > night a young lady from the class had her wrist grabbed as she tried > to get in > her car. She did the wrist lock (nikyo) and heard a snap and got > away safe > and sound. Ooohh...I know nikyo well....*ouch* pretty impressive though that she nailed it like that...good teaching --__--__-- Message: 13 From: mdealba@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ITF FORMS Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:08:17 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ah yes, you are absolutely right. I overlooked the ITF part. (Probably due to my WTF background) Sorry. -- **CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE** This email communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the designated recipient named above. Distribution, reproduction or any other use of this transmission by any party other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Ray > I think the request was for ITF forms. What is listed below are WTF/ > Kukkiwon forms, save for Chungmoo. > > Ray > > > On Nov 4, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Michael wrote: > > > Greetings Sir, > > Let's see if this is helpful: > > > > T.K.D. Black Belt Patterns > > > > 1st Dan – Chungmoo > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ4t-FxvYUw > > > > 2nd Dan – Koryo > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTU0jnGs4G0&feature=related > > > > > > 3rd Dan – lKeumgang > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=347xYQMgqI8 > > > > 4th Dan – Taebaek > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dmac0mfK0 > > > > 4th – 5th Dan – Pyeongwon > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BZA_-6V7I > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHR0qmfcgJg&feature=related > > > > 5th – 6th Dan – Sipjin > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0-eeNkPUa4 > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF5G0ZrlZKg&feature=related > > > > 6th – 7th Dan – Jitae > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-E8dHQrWgo > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBgyQnUsvhc&feature=related > > > > > > 7th – 8th Dan – Cheonkwon > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U0WQ0AANzQ > > > > 8th – 9th Dan – Hansoo > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxfH22t1uU > > > > 9th –10th Dan – Ilyo > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5kUn4USdw > > > > I hope this is what you were looking for. If so I am glad to help. > > With much respect and brotherhood, > > Grand Master Michael De Alba > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:16:55 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 10h dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I never saw a brown belt until the 80's in the KMA, now it looks a lot like Walt Disney tossed his cookies. The belt colors before then were based on the Korean flag. 10th dan, I remember being told, would never happen in the KMA. Now according to the www and the phone book, there are countless KMA 10th dan. I won't swear to it, but I think I heard Dr. Kimm once growl at the mention of someone using the rank 10th dan. I have heard several senior hapkidoin say that rank beyond 9th derogates the other dan rank. After all, if you compare a 6 dan system to a 13 dan system, a rank such as 3rd dan then has 2 different meanings, time in rank, quality of technique, etc. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 11:17:52 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT Director recommendation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Elections for USAT Director are upon us. Due to her years and years of tireless contribution to the USTU / USAT, Ronda is a person that I highly recommend for this position. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net =========================================== Ronda J. Sweet - Candidate for Grassroots Director of USAT USAT Resume & Statement of Goals Prior to the USAT creations I was President of Oklahoma for 6 years, Chair of the USTU Publication Committee, Webmaster, and Editor of the USTU Magazine. In the last 4 years I have been:: Chair – USAT Awards Committee. Awards Committee created the USAT awards program, requirements and awards. Worked with USAT and Art Canning to bring the Chris Canning Award of Excellence to the USAT along with the annual scholarship. Appointed by the USOC Governance & Management Committee to create a Board seat elected by the State Associations. Worked with Bob Gambardella, USAT CEO in 2004 & 2005, along with others to mitigate the issue with the two US Congressmen wanting to eliminate all head kicks for those under 12 years old. Provided Congressmen with samples of USAT protective equipment, as well as pointed out problems with the the studies upon which they were basing their decisions. This lead to the eventual head kick policy currently in place. Elected to USAT Board of Directors in 2005, with term beginning in January 2006 as the USAT Grassroots Director.. Appointed by BOD Chair to the USAT Audit Committee. Worked with USAT & USOC auditors to review financials and possible problems. Worked with USAT CEO to create a more family friendly equipment and uniform policy. This allowed students to wear school uniforms, as well as elbow and knee pads. Worked with USAT staff to allow black belts under 12 in the World Class division the opportunity to use Junior Safety Rules. Suggested and saw implemented the USAT Grassroots Grants Program. When the USOC suspended USAT funding over issues with the 2006 BOD, I worked with the USOC to negotiate return of funding as well as resolution of other issues which threatened this organization. Elected Chair of the Board of Directors unanimously in January 2007. After beginning the push for a USAT (USTU) Dan Certification program in 1997, I continued this agenda until this was passed by the BOD. I suggested and saw implemented the USAT testing program which allows USAT members without an instructor of sufficient rank to test for higher dan rank. Proposed and saw implemented the USAT Sexual Harassment Policy. Worked with USAT CEO and web staff to suggest more information on the USAT website, such as the Legal Page which was implemented in 2007. Proposed and saw implemented the USAT Volunteer Committee and the newly formed USAT Women’s Committee. I am currently working with the USAT Women’s Committee to define their role in the USAT. Worked to return disenfranchised members from USTU back into the USAT fold. USAT is open to all members, regardless of race, color, creed and personal relationships. After implementation, USAT saw a 15% increase in club memberships, as well as the 2008 increase in individual memberships. Suggested, lobbied and saw the implementation of Bracketed Forms in the 2008 USAT program. This program saw the first ever increase in poomse competitors and promises to continue to increase participation in poomse in USAT. When it was legally feasible, I negotiated to bring the CIDP program back in-house instead of contracted outside the USAT. Suggested and saw passed the current interpretation of the competition protest procedures. Promoted and saw passed unanimously, the return of USAT State Organizations to direct membership within the USAT. After research into the Colorado Non Profit Corporate law, suggested changes in the bylaws which brought the USAT into compliance with CO state law. Pursued an investigation into questions about one of the USAT elections. There is a current Ethics Complaint on this issue so I cannot comment further. Worked with USAT staff to comply with USAT bylaws regarding elections, timelines, requirements, as well as other bylaw issues etc…. I have been willing to take the harder road of right versus the easier path of least resistance. I have been willing to stand up for what is right. Asisted individuals as members and as state organizations to fix problems they have encountered to improve customer service in the USAT. Goals for the future: Continue to work to review and suggest updates to our bylaws to the benefit of the USAT and to keep us compliant with the USOC, CO Non Profit Corporate Law and the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act. Proposed and hope to see passed a Membership & Credentials Committee which would oversee the State Organization membership and oversight process. Continue to support and will be working to see more support for our National Poomse Team, making more an integral part of the USAT Team Programs. This would include promoting our poomse program. Additionally, taking negotiations with the PATU president further, I would continue to work with PATU and others to ensure that we have a separate Poomse Referee Certification program, as well as poomse training to bring the USAT in line with the rest of the world in the poomse arena. Will continue to work to keep the USAT stable and moving forward. In the last three years we established a stable coaching program which saw 3 medals at the last Olympics, 9 medals at the last Pan Am Championships, as well as other International Events not limited to the major success by the 2007 Junior Team at the Pan Am Junior Event. Work to find more funding sources to increase our programming efforts in the future. Continue to maintain the good relationship between the USAT and the USOC which has resulted in three years of International Relations Grants as well as funding for USAT programs. Continue to work within the USAT and the BOD to increase membership and value to the membership. Continue our efforts to increase our financial reserves, as well as developing a more defined financial plan for the next 5+ years. Continue work to give staff and volunteers the tools they need to continue to improve and develop our Referee, Coaching and Athlete High Performance programs. I currently am the voice of experience on the Board. I bring the history, as well as the knowledge of our bylaws, and our procedures. In having been involved in the formation of both, I have the unique knowledge of how and why these have been set, as well as the ability to see where events and time necessitate flexibility. I bring a passion for the sport, as well as the ability to take my thoughts from words to action. I have been able to work within the system to achieve results. As is evident from my accomplishments over just the last 4 years, I have a proven track record of action. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest