Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:03:00 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #301 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Video Clip: Sparring clips (Joseph Cheavens) 2. RE: Video Clip: Sparring clips (Joseph Cheavens) 3. fight clips (Jye nigma) 4. Re: what do you think? (Anthony Zahler) 5. Re: Skip dan (zisheged@aol.com) 6. time in grade (freddie bishop) 7. Re: does this makes sense???? (Scott) 8. More vids for Jye . . . (Joseph Cheavens) 9. RE: Armor Plated with Mark Hatmaker - a review (Joseph Cheavens) 10. the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (jay.oconnor@comcast.net) 11. RE: time in grade (Rick Clark) 12. Re: time in grade (James O'Connor) 13. Re: time in grade (Ray) 14. Another bad apple (Erik Smith) 15. Haidong Gumdo downunder (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Joseph Cheavens To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Video Clip: Sparring clips Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:42:59 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Looks like ITF is making some improvements in terms of more realistic fighting (i.e. continuous sparring v.s. point sparring and allowing heavier contact to the head with hand strikes) whereas WTF is stagnating in their same tippy-tap game of tag. I say this as a san-dan in WTF TKD who has long advocated more realistic sparring. sigh Joe Cheavens > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:19:28 -0800 > From: kingjye@yahoo.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Video Clip: Sparring clips > > itf sparring: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7UnCmgU1Ao&feature=related > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQppVPWSdQ&feature=related > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W3mSFkzOss&feature=related > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_ 102008 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Joseph Cheavens To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Video Clip: Sparring clips Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 21:04:37 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net After posting those links over on Bullshido's KMA forum, I found out that ITF-NK has a full contact tournament circuit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJCiJ-dNVq8 Joe Cheavens > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 23:19:28 -0800 > From: kingjye@yahoo.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Video Clip: Sparring clips > > itf sparring: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7UnCmgU1Ao&feature=related > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQppVPWSdQ&feature=related > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W3mSFkzOss&feature=related > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 22:07:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] fight clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net drunken warriors need to sober up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiC7ef8xsms&feature=related Kung Fu vs Taekwondo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE Greatest Muay Thai Fight Ever Filmed!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy50_4CdLnI&feature=related ITF TKD vs Kyukoshin karate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5dSSyRUb3g&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1noQmhXla5s&NR=1   Nasty accident on a grappling tournament: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_qFMo6hRo&feature=related   Cuban boxer knocks out 2 referees!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHutzHR5Stc&NR=1 hug vs smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCRXTXZSWFE&feature=related   shamrock vs smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FILwK7saCw&NR=1   rutten vs shamrock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h1WWwtLWyg&NR=1   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-V6R3dG20g&NR=1   Do not fuck with Bas Rutten: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A9SjPhC0pM&feature=related   flying KO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jan_slI6wDw&feature=related   UFC KO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzoWOb0BPg&feature=related   PKA First World Championships 1974: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEO8pbX9XSA&feature=related   --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 23:47:04 -0500 From: "Anthony Zahler" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] what do you think? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Most likely a really good student and a lucky coincidence that it was a useful technique for the situation. Tony Zahler On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > agreed! > Jye > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, James O'Connor wrote: > > I've always thought that when it comes to self-defense "What you > teach me today I may need tonight" > > The student doesn't get to choose the time and the place. It may take time > to grok the subtly of certain concepts and mechanics but, whatever you > teach at > any level should be immediately practical and applicable. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 5 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:58:58 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Skip dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know a guy that was 2nd dan for over 5 years. He trained faithfully during that time and his master wasn't kukkiwon certified. His second dan came from a prior master. As he entered his 6th year after attaining 2nd dan he went to a new school. He applied, tested and was granted his 4th dan. It was deserved. I know another guy that came to New York a 5th dan (kukkiwon) and five months later was awarded his 9th dan. As they say in NY," Dat ain't right!" Yes, there are 10th dans all over the place. You have to expect that as martial arts has grown along with the greed and egos of some people. I've actually met a 13th dan in some obscure art. Currently, the marketplace regulates what goes. Martial arts legalization hasn't happened. So I say, vote with your feet. Check the training, its acceptance and go with the mainstream unless MMA appeals to you. Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] time in grade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is the whole purpose of time in grade? You can either perform and know the material or you don't! Fred --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:02:49 -0500 From: Scott To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] does this makes sense???? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Actually it does to me. It looks like an outward wrist twist. Not sure if it is what they mean it to be, but that motion is very similar to an outward wrist twist. Kick to the stomach. Grab an arm and slide down the arm till you get the wrist then twist your body to the side and twist the wrist to throw the person. The only reason I think this is because I have taken to doing my techniques in a form fashion to help me remember them. And that motion looks very close to the way my second white belt motion looks when done as a form. So again not sure if that is the application they have in mind but it does look that way to me. Or perhaps he is just trying to get his shoe off so he can throw it. could go either way. :-) Jye nigma wrote: > Check out this form and explanation. Now I understand what the guy is > explaining, but as far as functionality it baffles me. Anyone else understand > why they do certain moves? Ok This is how I view forms, I see the performer > and imagine opponent's on all sides. So each movement or set of movements > involve the performer and attackers. Now I can't understand for instance, in > the below clip, what significance the action at 1:53 has in battle? I > understand ksw wants their forms to flow like kung fu forms flow, but in kung > fu forms every move or show I say action has a purpose in the form and also > when extracted from the form. So can a KSW person help a brother to understand > the concept behind such movements? > > Kyuk Pah Hyung: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYlitT6PlH0&feature=related > > Jye > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Joseph Cheavens To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:23:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] More vids for Jye . . . Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net . . . and the rest of the gang, too. I had not heard of "Pro TKD" before I posted those three ITF competition vids from Jye over in Bullshido's KMA forum. Anyone know if this active in the US? Even more importantly, why doesn't WTF-Oly fighting look more like this? Yeah, yeah, I've hear the argument that not allowing punches to the face forces TKDists to develop their kicking skill to a higher degree, but these guys look like they can kick just fine and not knowing how to punch or, more importantly, not training to defend against punches seriously undermines the practicality and effectiveness of WTF TKD. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJCiJ-dNVq8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4OEGiijIRw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukZjPiLw23k Joe Cheavens _________________________________________________________________ You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Joseph Cheavens To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Armor Plated with Mark Hatmaker - a review Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:35:52 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain, Thanks for sharing. I like your blog. Joe Cheavens > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:16:56 -0500 > From: aburrese@aol.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] Armor Plated with Mark Hatmaker - a review > > I posted a review and video clip of Armor Plated with Mark Hatmaker on > my Attack Back blog: > > http://www.burrese.com/attackbackblog.html > > Yours in Training, > > Alain > > www.burrese.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns! 20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008 --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:45:32 +0000 (UTC) From: jay.oconnor@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Nov 6, 2008, at 2:14 AM, freddie bishop wrote: What is the whole purpose of time in grade? You can either perform and know the material or you don't! One possible purpose is that it gives the student time to think about training and not about promoting. Another is that it eliminates questions of "student thinks he's ready to test, instructor does not" so if "time in grade" has not been reached, that provides an easy explanation --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:09:37 -0500 From: Rick Clark Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] time in grade To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Freddie, What is the whole purpose of time in grade? You can either perform and know the material or you don't! Fred Time in grade does a couple of things: 1 lets a person develop muscle memory. 2 develop polish and skill 3 sets standards 4 the most cynical point it gives control to those in power over those not in power. Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 12 From: James O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] time in grade Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:40:38 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Nov 6, 2008, at 2:14 AM, freddie bishop wrote: > What is the whole purpose of time in grade? You can either perform > and know the material or you don't! One possible purpose is that it gives the student time to think about training and not about promoting. Another is that it eliminates questions of "student thinks he's ready to test, instructor does not" so if "time in grade" has not been reached, that provides an easy explanation --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] time in grade Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:15:02 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net And keep in mind that the stated time in grade is a minimum. We have far too many 30 or 40-something year old 8th Dans or 40 or 50- something year old 9th Dans, or worse. Ray On Nov 6, 2008, at 7:40 AM, James O'Connor wrote: > On Nov 6, 2008, at 2:14 AM, freddie bishop wrote: > >> What is the whole purpose of time in grade? You can either perform >> and know the material or you don't! > > One possible purpose is that it gives the student time to think > about training and not about promoting. > > Another is that it eliminates questions of "student thinks he's > ready to test, instructor does not" so if "time in grade" has not > been reached, that provides an easy explanation --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:08:13 -0500 From: Erik Smith To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Another bad apple Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net TheIndyChannel.com Related To Story Martial Arts Closure Angers Parents /Attorney General Investigates New Complaints / POSTED: 2:48 pm EST November 6, 2008 UPDATED: 3:06 pm EST November 6, 2008 *NOBLESVILLE, Ind. -- *Parents are angry with a martial arts business they said owes them thousands of dollars after several schools closed.Christian Gagnon, 4, is a yellow belt who was enrolled at Champion Martial Arts in Noblesville. His parents paid $3,600 in February for uniforms, classes and membership."He would be able to go for the rest of his life for no additional fees," said Laura Gagnon, Christian's mother. "They would replace equipment. They would replace uniforms any time he outgrew them. So, there really was no reason for us to say, 'Why shouldn't we do this?'"With each lesson, the family saw progress in Christian and passion to continue, but the center closed in September.Another studio in Zionsville also closed, as did one in Carmel with no explanation, Call 6's Rafael Sanchez reported.In 2006, the Indiana Attorney General's Office accused Champion Martial Arts owner Johnathon Stowe of deceiving and misleading customers in northern Indiana. Stowe agreed to a court order and made $20,000 in refunds in that incident.More than a dozen new families said they are out tens of thousands of dollars."These are new situations, so we're investigating those and we hope they'll be forthcoming and remedy these things for consumers," said Attorney General Steve Carter. "If not, they will likely face a lawsuit by the attorney general's office."Gagnon said she just wants the money she paid to be refunded, and Christian hasn't given up on the sport. -- Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. -R.A. Heinlein --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:18:49 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Haidong Gumdo downunder Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Position of power 06 Nov 08 @ 05:23am by Christopher O'Leary SPRINGFIELD LAKES: The suburb’s best Korean swordfighters dominated the sport’s national championships last month. Team Mudo took out four gold, four silver and four bronze medals at the Australian Haidong Gumbo Championships at the Salisbury RSL memorial park on October 26. Coach Stuart Campbell said the squad made up of Springfield Lakes and Southport residents were also awarded the best team award for their attitude and behaviour. “ As the youngest club in Brisbane we have shown that with hard training and showing the true mudo spirit we can achieve the highest results,” he said. “From the players point of view, they all enjoyed themselves, and as the competition was so close, even those who did not (receive a) medal have a sense of pride in their achievements.” From Springfield Lakes Rieanna Twilley and James Whittering claimed gold in the candle extinguishing and under-12 colour belt patterns categories. Connaugh Fenner also won the under 18 red belt and Cho Dan Bo patterns category. Husband and wife pair Dell and Peter McKenzie scored silver and bronze in the over 40s’ colour belt patterns, while Richard Whittering took bronze in the 25 to 40 years class. Campbell scored silver and bronze in the master/instructions divisions of patterns and bamboo cutting. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest