Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:48:21 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #303 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. time in rank (J R Hilland) 2. Re: time in rank (Jeff Hazen) 3. Re: Time in grade (Brian Ingold) 4. RE: time in rank (michael tomlinson) 5. WTF recognized products (David Weller) 6. Re: WTF recognized products (Jye nigma) 7. Re: WTF recognized products (James O'Connor) 8. Re: time in grade (Jye nigma) 9. Re: what do you think? (shimmeringlight@optonline.net) 10. ata & gtf clips (Jye nigma) 11. RE: time in rank (Jye nigma) 12. seagal on merv (Jye nigma) 13. Tiger, Bear, Cobra (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:09:04 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] time in rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> That statement demonstrates everything wrong with the martial arts today. I can only assume that if one practices a technique once correctly it is then devoted to muscle memory in addition to never needing ANY improvement. Unfortunately, I do not have photographic muscle memory (P.M.M.). I have practiced many of the countless techniques in hapkido many thousands of times. One of these days, if I keep practicing, I may even get them right. I have been to and taught countless hapkido seminars when you will see those few that only practice a technique once or twice, then they 'figure they know it' and just stand there, while the others keep going without hesitation until the next technique is taught, then go home and continue their practice. The quality of technique of those that don't practice is rather obvious. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] time in rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Fri, 7 Nov 2008, J R Hilland had this to say: >> <<> I have never been a big fan of "time in grade".>>> > That statement demonstrates everything wrong with the martial arts today. > [snip] > I have been to and taught countless hapkido seminars when you will see those > few that only practice a technique once or twice, then they 'figure they > know it' and just stand there, while the others keep going without > hesitation until the next technique is taught, then go home and continue > their practice. The quality of technique of those that don't practice is > rather obvious. I apologize if that is how what I said came across. By 'know', I am talking about how those in your example of those who "keep going without hesitation until the next technique is taught, then go home and continue their practice", not the parroting of those who try a new technique once or twice and then think that they do not need to practice it any longer. My thoughts are that since you cannot differentiate quality of technique between those two types of people simply based on the criteria of "time in grade", that the demonstration of quality of technique is what is important - not that they have been a X dan for Y years. Respectfully, Jeff --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 17:08:12 -0600 From: "Brian Ingold" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What a wonderful thing, this Do. There is *always* something to work on - be it stance, technique, application, timing, teaching, or humility. Certainly, some students come for the workout, some for the self, and some for the art. Some become good, some - not so good. Some move back and forth, no? With time, things - and people, can change. Some say, Eat more Rice. Some say, rushing into a fight is leading with head (ouch). What does rushing into rank gain? Student asks Teacher: How long to earn Dan? Teacher says: 3 years. Student asks Teacher: What if I double up on my training? Teacher says: 6 years. I really can't say that the "mysticism" that people attribute to the Martial Arts is all that mystic. Leading the way to what the Arts may bring, however, can seem so. Explaining with only words, and not enough time ( repetitions hours, bruises, sweaty uniforms, etc ) will rarely do. Each student must understand for themselves, if the art they practice is to become theirs. With a nod to Mr. Burrese, Yours in Training... Brian Ingold --__--__-- Message: 4 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] time in rank Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 23:43:17 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There is another way to differentiate quality of technique...that is when you have to do it to save your life...because that is really what it is all about...let me say without any hesitation that if you have only practiced a technique here and there and you have a 25th dan and you are whatever age when the rubber hits the road you won't be able to use that technique...how do I know this...uhhh...by first hand knowledge...I'm not talking about sparring or grappling in the dojang or at a seminar..I'm talking about someone really trying to kill you....so if you don't like to spend time in grade than IMHO you are just playing games...one with your ego and one in fantasy land...are you kidding me?? People are actually trying to debate that they know their stuff so it doesn't matter how long they spend in grade?? What a joke... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: David Weller Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 17:59:34 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF recognized products Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Did anyone else hear the sound of a cash register when they read this?? This just seems patently absurd to me.. Makes me all the more thankful I train in obscurity in the middle of nowhere. Dave Weller On Nov 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, the_dojang- request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > only WTF-recognized products are permitted for use > in all WTF-promoted and sanctioned events. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 18:28:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] WTF recognized products To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...cha-ching! I do like the WTF fingerless gloves!!! http://www.martialmart.com/wtfgloves.html I will be getting a pair or two...lol.   Jye --- On Fri, 11/7/08, David Weller wrote: From: David Weller Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF recognized products To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 6:59 PM Did anyone else hear the sound of a cash register when they read this?? This just seems patently absurd to me.. Makes me all the more thankful I train in obscurity in the middle of nowhere. Dave Weller On Nov 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > only WTF-recognized products are permitted for use > in all WTF-promoted and sanctioned events. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 7 From: James O'Connor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] WTF recognized products Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:03:08 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF?? GRAPPLING GLOVES!?!?!? On Nov 7, 2008, at 7:28 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > lol...cha-ching! I do like the WTF fingerless gloves!!! > http://www.martialmart.com/wtfgloves.html I will be getting a pair or > two...lol. > > Jye > --- On Fri, 11/7/08, David Weller wrote: > > From: David Weller > Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF recognized products > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 6:59 PM > > Did anyone else hear the sound of a cash register when they read > this?? > > > This just seems patently absurd to me.. > > Makes me all the more thankful I train in obscurity in the middle of > nowhere. > > Dave Weller > > > On Nov 7, 2008, at 3:43 PM, the_dojang- > request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > >> only WTF-recognized products are permitted for use >> in all WTF-promoted and sanctioned events. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:12:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] time in grade To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yeah you know your stuff or you don't. but what's really important is if you can use it or not....and that's something spending all of eternity in a grade can't influence. I bet DJN Ji used his material in real time combat. That's what means more to me; that steps out beyond time and grade and theory learned etc, and says a lot more to me. time in grade doesn't mean you will be able to protect yourself.   I don't know what people without actual fight experience should do to be able to use their art in unrehearsed combat, but it's something that should be figured out so time in grade will have more meaning. I'm not saying go out and be gang affiliated like I was so you'll be forced to use what you know like I was, but some close simulation is needed. Can you imagine spending 5 years in a grade only to find out you can't use your art?   Jye --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Jeff Hazen wrote: How old was DJN Ji when he came to the states in 1984.. 47, 48? Do you think his time in grade was not sufficient to have been 10th dan? I have always figured either you know your stuff, or you don't... I have never been a big fan of "time in grade". ~Jeff --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 12:09:31 +0000 (GMT) From: shimmeringlight@optonline.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] what do you think? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I myself will use discretion in the teachings of anything besides the basic of that particular "level". However, If the student can, I will also meter out as needed- while at the same time staying focused and organized. But then again, I come from an area that was hands on everyday, that being max. sec state prison. peace-out g:) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jye nigma Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:32 am Subject: [The_Dojang] what do you think? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Take a listen to this brother's approach to teaching martial arts: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askQI8RUHCM > > What do you all think about not reserving certain knowledge for > specificlevels? > > Jye > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > www.gnabelmartialarts.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of shimmeringlight.vcf; charset=us-ascii] --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 22:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ata & gtf clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ATA TKD ATA MMA - Mixed Martial Arts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsK7ALN1RgM&feature=related ATA tribute (Eternal Grand Master H U Lee): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M56s5gRAPM ATA Martial Arts Grand Master Training 2007 Adults: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HLj6pK7DmE&NR=1   GTF TKD   GTF Taekwon-do GM Park Jung Tae performing Tuls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMznVznnmWM         --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 20:27:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] time in rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I read this it made me remember my son coming into my room finding an old kung fu manual mimicing what he saw in the manual and lol...when he closed it I hear him say ok now I can beat you....roflmao. I guess that's how some adults are too.   Jye --- On Fri, 11/7/08, michael tomlinson wrote: so if you don't like to spend time in grade than IMHO you are just playing games...one with your ego and one in fantasy land...are you kidding me?? People are actually trying to debate that they know their stuff so it doesn't matter how long they spend in grade?? What a joke... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 22:49:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] seagal on merv Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net is this before or after he became famous?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yacGwi8Kzg&feature=related     Jye --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 09:37:33 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tiger, Bear, Cobra Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Martial arts animals: Tiger, Bear, Cobra November 7 Nancy Robinson Martial Arts Examiner San Francisco Examiner For centuries, martial artists have mimicked the behaviors of animals in pursuit of a path to self defense. This is a common tool represented in most martial arts systems. The tiger, bear and cobra are just a few of the animals represented in martial arts. Tiger Characteristics: courageous animal with powerful, fierce and direct movements. Uses strong legs and the deadly tiger claw technique to attack an opponent. Martial arts styles: represented in Japanese Shotokan Karate and Shaolin Kung Fu. Bear Characteristics: sturdy, powerful, slow and deliberate. Has the ability to fight while retreating from danger. Martial arts styles: represented in the Korean form Sip Soo, and in Chinese Kung Fu styles including Bagua and Xing Yi. Cobra Characteristics: precise with lightning reflexes, calm and relaxed exploding into sharp strikes unexpectedly. Martial arts styles: represented in the Bassai hyung of Korean Tang Soo Do and known as "Passai" in Okinawan Karate. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest