Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:17:00 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #304 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Time in Rank (hapkidodavetn@aol.com) 2. NY Times article on stretching (Nathan Miller) 3. Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist (zisheged@aol.com) 4. RE: Time in Rank (michael tomlinson) 5. RE: Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist (Erik Brann) 6. RE: Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist (michael tomlinson) 7. RE: Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist (Jye nigma) 8. Re: Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist (Jye nigma) 9. Re: Jyes Knife Drill (Jye nigma) 10. Re: Jyes Knife Drill (daomyer@aol.com) 11. Happy B-Day! (Ray) 12. US Marines B-Day (Ray) 13. RE: US Marines B-Day (David Zapencki) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:54:21 -0500 From: hapkidodavetn@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I first started looking for a school to train with?the first thing I asked was "How long does it take to get a black belt" if the answer was a certain amount amount of time, I said next. How could anyone tell how well I would perform walking in off the street? When I found?a school that said it depends on you then I looked more closely at this school. The same should apply to advancement, a minimum amount of time, then look to see if their ready. IMHO Dave --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:08:44 -0600 From: "Nathan Miller" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] NY Times article on stretching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Includes some research from university studies. How do you stretch in class? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sports/playmagazine/112pewarm.html?_r=4&oref=slogin&oref=slogin --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:53:48 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I remember so vividly back in 1963 when I was a white belt. I was to test for what I assumed was to be 7 or 8th kup (yellow belt). I did pretty well and was promoted to 6- kup or low green belt hence skipping yellow belt. My friend Bob Meoni was also to be promoted to green belt but asked Master Gross to withhold promotion as he felt he needed more work on his forms. Bob was leaps and bounds better than me not only in skill but humility. He refused two other promotions along the way and today is a 5th dan. Bob often said to me," My worst fear is performing in the dojang and having someone say I didn't deserve my rank". Taekwondo could sure use a whole bunch of Bob Meoni's! Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 4 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Time in Rank Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:52:19 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Did you ask the people at your High School or at your College how long to get my diploma or degree, do you ask your Captain in the Army how long for you to become a Sargent?? Probably not..of course it depends on you..just like you can take more courses in summer school etc and advance a little faster...but they don't shorten the courses for you because you think you are smarter than everyone else... there should also be a certain time frame built in to keep you practicing and building your techniques and learning, anytime I have ever taught anyone and the first question they ask me was how long to get a black belt they have NEVER made it..they seem to get sidetracked by some other activity or moved on to the next shiney thing in their mind or something they saw on TV...I have a bunch of middle aged guys and teenagers that just come in and bust their butts working out and NEVER ask me about the next belt..as a matter of fact I have to bring it up to them..those are the students I like, they are there for the art of Hapkido and not the ego jerking.. Michael Tomlinson > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:54:21 -0500 > From: hapkidodavetn@aol.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in Rank > > When I first started looking for a school to train with?the first thing I asked was > "How long does it take to get a black belt" > if the answer was a certain amount amount of time, I said next. > How could anyone tell how well I would perform walking in off the street? > When I found?a school that said it depends on you then I looked more closely at this school. > The same should apply to advancement, a minimum amount of time, then look to see if their ready. > IMHO > Dave > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Erik Brann" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with time in rank to a point. I am a 4th gup green belt. I have been for 4 1/2 years now. My former school had a 6 month minimum between grades of regular attendance. Two weeks before my red belt test I tweaked a knee, so I took a week off, because I didn't want to aggravate an injury. The senior instructor had not been attending the class session for the six months prior, but chose the class I skipped to attend. Test day, she walked up to me and told me she hadn't seen me work out so wouldn't let me test. That effectively reset my time to another six months. What with work issues, a broken rib and a severe case of bronchitis, I missed a few more classes, each time it reset my time. So I remain a green belt. I have left that school, but they are probably going to splinter apart anyway. It's too bad. Anyhow, I live here in Nashua now, and if I had funds I would return to GM Basteins classes. He told me that in 3 months I can make blue belt. Then progress in his school. Just need funding. -----Original Message----- From: zisheged@aol.com [mailto:zisheged@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:54 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist I remember so vividly back in 1963 when I was a white belt. I was to test for what I assumed was to be 7 or 8th kup (yellow belt). I did pretty well and was promoted to 6- kup or low green belt hence skipping yellow belt. My friend Bob Meoni was also to be promoted to green belt but asked Master Gross to withhold promotion as he felt he needed more work on his forms. Bob was leaps and bounds better than me not only in skill but humility. He refused two other promotions along the way and today is a 5th dan. Bob often said to me," My worst fear is performing in the dojang and having someone say I didn't deserve my rank". Taekwondo could sure use a whole bunch of Bob Meoni's! Zeishe _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:00:06 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow how times have changed huh...I remember those times in the late 60's and the 70's when you would NEVER ask your instructor when you could test...that was considered rude and inappropriate and showed that you were more interested in your ego then in the tenets that go along with your martial arts training....now you hear people EXPECT a new black belt as soon as possible..or you aren't doing your job somehow as an instructor...somethings never cease to make me scratch my head in disbelief..the training seems to be secondary and the accolades are the most important thing that needs to be taken care of.. Michael Tomlinson > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:53:48 -0500 > From: zisheged@aol.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist > > I remember so vividly back in 1963 when I was a white belt. I was to test for what I assumed was to be 7 or 8th kup (yellow belt). I did pretty well and was promoted to 6- kup or low green belt hence skipping yellow belt. My friend Bob Meoni was also to be promoted to green belt but asked Master Gross to withhold promotion as he felt he needed more work on his forms. Bob was leaps and bounds better than me not only in skill but humility. He refused two other promotions along the way and today is a 5th dan. Bob often said to me," My worst fear is performing in the dojang and having someone say I didn't deserve my rank". Taekwondo could sure use a whole bunch of Bob Meoni's! > > > Zeishe > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:21:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now I don't agree with that either. I never would ask, I was always told when testing was and that I was ready for testing. In my world, I would stay any grade as long as I can spar...lol. Definitely sounds like an ego thing or maybe some people still think something magically happens at BB; like you can magically fight. who knows.     Jye --- On Sun, 11/9/08, michael tomlinson wrote: Wow how times have changed huh...I remember those times in the late 60's and the 70's when you would NEVER ask your instructor when you could test...that was considered rude and inappropriate and showed that you were more interested in your ego then in the tenets that go along with your martial arts training....now you hear people EXPECT a new black belt as soon as possible..or you aren't doing your job somehow as an instructor...somethings never cease to make me scratch my head in disbelief..the training seems to be secondary and the accolades are the most important thing that needs to be taken care of.. Michael Tomlinson > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 22:53:48 -0500 > From: zisheged@aol.com > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist > > I remember so vividly back in 1963 when I was a white belt. I was to test for what I assumed was to be 7 or 8th kup (yellow belt). I did pretty well and was promoted to 6- kup or low green belt hence skipping yellow belt. My friend Bob Meoni was also to be promoted to green belt but asked Master Gross to withhold promotion as he felt he needed more work on his forms. Bob was leaps and bounds better than me not only in skill but humility. He refused two other promotions along the way and today is a 5th dan. Bob often said to me," My worst fear is performing in the dojang and having someone say I didn't deserve my rank". Taekwondo could sure use a whole bunch of Bob Meoni's! > > > Zeishe > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:44:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't see why rank is such a big deal to so many. If an ITF TKD school opens up in my area then I'll gladly start as a white belt again. It's only right since I forgot all forms...lol.   Jye --- On Sat, 11/8/08, zisheged@aol.com wrote: From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade for a real martial artist To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:53 PM I remember so vividly back in 1963 when I was a white belt. I was to test for what I assumed was to be 7 or 8th kup (yellow belt). I did pretty well and was promoted to 6- kup or low green belt hence skipping yellow belt. My friend Bob Meoni was also to be promoted to green belt but asked Master Gross to withhold promotion as he felt he needed more work on his forms. Bob was leaps and bounds better than me not only in skill but humility. He refused two other promotions along the way and today is a 5th dan. Bob often said to me," My worst fear is performing in the dojang and having someone say I didn't deserve my rank". Taekwondo could sure use a whole bunch of Bob Meoni's! Zeishe _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:59:10 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jyes Knife Drill To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You defend against it with realistic knife defense training. I always wondered where knife defense routines came from. Where I come from people use both hands; the empty hand to hit and grab, and the armed hand to do the cutting.   In your scenario the person with the shank usually is using his free hand to hold the victim while he jigs him real good. Most knife defense routines like you said only deals with one action which isn't realistic to me, not according to what I've seen/been involved in. I guess some training is better then none at all.   Jye --- Luther Veuleman wrote: Jye/Digest, I was trying to catch up on 25 digests I missed, but gave up and went to the last 3 or 4. I saw jyes drill suggestion, and was thinking, what about the way people in prison knife fight. You know, One guy standing there, other guy casually walks up, covers his left hand with his right, makes 10-15 quick short stabs, rapid fire style less than 2 seconds, then turns into a crowd of people undetected. "I didn't see anything officer" I always see people do knife defense stuff against a person just attacking with the one attack, but never with a dozen quick thrusts low like that. What'dya do? I guess make a bigger toothbrush-knife to defend yourself with. Charlie Veuleman www.TSDofLA.com --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jyes Knife Drill Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:50:53 -0500 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would also assume the 11 other thrusts were succesfull since the first one was not stopped. After that its all down hill. Now some would argue the real problems started when you found yourself in prison to be in that scenario to begin with. -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 2:59 pm Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Jyes Knife Drill You defend against it with realistic knife defense training. I always wondered where knife defense routines came from. Where I come from people use both hands; the empty hand to hit and grab, and the armed hand to do the cutting. ? In your scenario the person with the shank usually is using his free hand to hold the victim while he jigs him real good. Most knife defense routines like you said only deals with one action which isn't realistic to me, not according to what I've seen/been involved in. I guess some training is better then none at all. ? Jye --- Luther Veuleman wrote: Jye/Digest, I was trying to catch up on 25 digests I missed, but gave up and went to the last 3 or 4. I saw jyes drill suggestion, and was thinking, what about the way people in prison knife fight. You know, One guy standing there, other guy casually walks up, covers his left hand with his right, makes 10-15 quick short stabs, rapid fire style less than 2 seconds, then turns into a crowd of people undetected. "I didn't see anything officer" I always see people do knife defense stuff against a person just attacking with the one attack, but never with a dozen quick thrusts low like that. What'dya do? I guess make a bigger toothbrush-knife to defend yourself with. Charlie Veuleman www.TSDofLA.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:49:17 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy B-Day! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Happy Birthday to my fellow Moo Duk Kwan-ers. 11.9.1945 Ray --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:21:06 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] US Marines B-Day Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 11.10.1775 Happy Birthday to the Marines out there. Ray --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "David Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] US Marines B-Day Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:58:18 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Semper Fi... Dave -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:thedojang@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 3:21 PM To: The_Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] US Marines B-Day 11.10.1775 Happy Birthday to the Marines out there. Ray _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest