Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:46:01 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #306 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. (no subject) (Master Mark Seidel) 2. Fwd: Message From USAT Co Referee Chair (Ray) 3. Veteran's Day (The_Dojang) 4. Re: Time in grade (Erik Kluzek) 5. Re: Someone in Colorado-Springs.. (Erik Kluzek) 6. RE: (no subject) (michael tomlinson) 7. time in grade (Robert Martin) 8. Re: time in grade (Lasich, Mark D.) 9. Vetran's Day (Gordon Okerstrom) 10. Re: Time in grage across the board (zisheged@aol.com) 11. Re: blog (aburrese@aol.com) 12. Thank You Veterans (aburrese@aol.com) 13. list down or slow (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Cc: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:29:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Mark L.; since joining the USKMAF several years ago I replaced my belt with 5 stripes with a belt with no stripes as is customary in the USKMAF from 4th Dan up. I don't see students counting my stripes any more with endless questions of how many stripes you can get and when I am going to get another. I rarely even think of my rank, I can't do what I use to do 10 years ago physically but I have no trouble teaching others to do techniques. I am profoundly enjoying the ride of a perpetual beginner and could care less about rank. This attitude filters down to your students as mine know better than to ask when they will test next. They are in a constant state of testing and the formality of a promotion is at the end of each beginning. New students that ask me how long it takes to become a BB are answered with a quick "I have no idea". I am more interested in the development of my students mind set than biceps. I much rather they master fight/flight reflex and adrenaline response, than side kick birds out of the sky or kick a person off a horse. Mark S. -----Original Message----- From: Lasich, Mark D. [mailto:Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:11 AM To: Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: time in grade Jeff Hazen noted : >I have always figured either you know your stuff, or you don't... I have >never been a big fan of "time in grade". > >~Jeff So, if I have a white belt demonstrate (show he knows) the black belt testing material, should he automatically be given a black belt? Conversely, as a Grand Master ages, and someone younger can do what he "used to", should GM just step aside? Growth and development in the martial arts has the potential balance physical, mental and spiritual development. If we focus on just one aspect, physical, then I think we miss out on some very important aspects of training. Time in grade can help adjust ego, gives time to perfect technique, can instill a sense of humility, promote and develop leadership skills, and help calm that sense of urgency everyone seems to have today. For me, I tend to forget the destination (nth Degree) and enjoy the journey (training & teaching). In the spirit, Mark www.karatequips.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:53:25 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fwd: Message From USAT Co Referee Chair Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Begin forwarded message: Date: November 10, 2008 5:29:02 PM PST Subject: Message From John Holloway -USAT Co Referee Chair The following is a message from Master John Holloway: Hello Folks—My Fellow School Owners, I served on the First USAT Board of Directors and also as an athlete (US team Captain), AAC Chair and Vice President of the USTU. I was an integral part, along with others, in facilitating our much needed change in our organization. I am currently Co Chair of the Referee Program. I have been a registered school owner with the USAT/USTU for 25 years. As a registered school owner you and I will be casting our vote for the Grassroots Director position. I am writing to you to endorse Ronda Sweet for re-election as Grassroots Director for the USAT. I know she is the best person to fulfill the duties as a Board member. We are here to look at the growth and much needed experience and leadership to continue to move the USAT forward as the USOC National Governing Body for Taekwondo. She has been both popular and unpopular. There are those that complain about challenges and those that do something about them. Ronda has never wavered from the goal of making us a better organization. We vote for leadership within the candidates. You know and I know amongst the candidates she is the leader in the pack. The bottom line is she brings knowledge, experience and a desire to make this organization better for all of us, especially the kids in your school. Your vote for her will continue to make it happen. VOTE RONDA SWEET FOR GRASSROOTS DIRECTOR! Best Regards, John l. Holloway USAT Co Referee Chair ========================================================== Ronda J. Sweet - Candidate for Grassroots Director of USAT USAT Resume & Statement of Goals Prior to the USAT creations I was President of Oklahoma for 6 years, Chair of the USTU Publication Committee, Webmaster, and Editor of the USTU Magazine. In the last 4 years I have been::  Chair – USAT Awards Committee. Awards Committee created the USAT awards program, requirements and awards. Worked with USAT and Art Canning to bring the Chris Canning Award of Excellence to the USAT along with the annual scholarship.  Appointed by the USOC Governance & Management Committee to create a Board seat elected by the State Associations.  Worked with Bob Gambardella, USAT CEO in 2004 & 2005, along with others to mitigate the issue with the two US Congressmen wanting to eliminate all head kicks for those under 12 years old. Provided Congressmen with samples of USAT protective equipment, as well as pointed out problems with the the studies upon which they were basing their decisions. This lead to the eventual head kick policy currently in place.  Elected to USAT Board of Directors in 2005, with term beginning in January 2006 as the USAT Grassroots Director..  Appointed by BOD Chair to the USAT Audit Committee. Worked with USAT & USOC auditors to review financials and possible problems.  Worked with USAT CEO to create a more family friendly equipment and uniform policy. This allowed students to wear school uniforms, as well as elbow and knee pads. Worked with USAT staff to allow black belts under 12 in the World Class division the opportunity to use Junior Safety Rules.  Suggested and saw implemented the USAT Grassroots Grants Program.  When the USOC suspended USAT funding over issues with the 2006 BOD, I worked with the USOC to negotiate return of funding as well as resolution of other issues which threatened this organization.  Elected Chair of the Board of Directors unanimously in January 2007.  After beginning the push for a USAT (USTU) Dan Certification program in 1997, I continued this agenda until this was passed by the BOD. I suggested and saw implemented the USAT testing program which allows USAT members without an instructor of sufficient rank to test for higher dan rank.  Proposed and saw implemented the USAT Sexual Harassment Policy.  Worked with USAT CEO and web staff to suggest more information on the USAT website, such as the Legal Page which was implemented in 2007.  Proposed and saw implemented the USAT Volunteer Committee and the newly formed USAT Women’s Committee. I am currently working with the USAT Women’s Committee to define their role in the USAT.  Worked to return disenfranchised members from USTU back into the USAT fold. USAT is open to all members, regardless of race, color, creed and personal relationships. After implementation, USAT saw a 15% increase in club memberships, as well as the 2008 increase in individual memberships.  Suggested, lobbied and saw the implementation of Bracketed Forms in the 2008 USAT program. This program saw the first ever increase in poomse competitors and promises to continue to increase participation in poomse in USAT.  When it was legally feasible, I negotiated to bring the CIDP program back in-house instead of contracted outside the USAT.  Suggested and saw passed the current interpretation of the competition protest procedures.  Promoted and saw passed unanimously, the return of USAT State Organizations to direct membership within the USAT.  After research into the Colorado Non Profit Corporate law, suggested changes in the bylaws which brought the USAT into compliance with CO state law.  Pursued an investigation into questions about one of the USAT elections. There is a current Ethics Complaint on this issue so I cannot comment further.  Worked with USAT staff to comply with USAT bylaws regarding elections, timelines, requirements, as well as other bylaw issues etc….  I have been willing to take the harder road of right versus the easier path of least resistance. I have been willing to stand up for what is right.  Asisted individuals as members and as state organizations to fix problems they have encountered to improve customer service in the USAT. Goals for the future:  Continue to work to review and suggest updates to our bylaws to the benefit of the USAT and to keep us compliant with the USOC, CO Non Profit Corporate Law and the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act.  Proposed and hope to see passed a Membership & Credentials Committee which would oversee the State Organization membership and oversight process.  Continue to support and will be working to see more support for our National Poomse Team, making more an integral part of the USAT Team Programs. This would include promoting our poomse program. Additionally, taking negotiations with the PATU president further, I would continue to work with PATU and others to ensure that we have a separate Poomse Referee Certification program, as well as poomse training to bring the USAT in line with the rest of the world in the poomse arena.  Will continue to work to keep the USAT stable and moving forward. In the last three years we established a stable coaching program which saw 3 medals at the last Olympics, 9 medals at the last Pan Am Championships, as well as other International Events not limited to the major success by the 2007 Junior Team at the Pan Am Junior Event.  Work to find more funding sources to increase our programming efforts in the future.  Continue to maintain the good relationship between the USAT and the USOC which has resulted in three years of International Relations Grants as well as funding for USAT programs.  Continue to work within the USAT and the BOD to increase membership and value to the membership.  Continue our efforts to increase our financial reserves, as well as developing a more defined financial plan for the next 5+ years.  Continue work to give staff and volunteers the tools they need to continue to improve and develop our Referee, Coaching and Athlete High Performance programs. I currently am the voice of experience on the Board. I bring the history, as well as the knowledge of our bylaws, and our procedures. In having been involved in the formation of both, I have the unique knowledge of how and why these have been set, as well as the ability to see where events and time necessitate flexibility. I bring a passion for the sport, as well as the ability to take my thoughts from words to action. I have been able to work within the system to achieve results. As is evident from my accomplishments over just the last 4 years, I have a proven track record of action. Ronda Sweet --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:47:32 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Veteran's Day Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In Flanders Fields John McCrae, May 1915 In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Erik Kluzek To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:24:13 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Another result of requiring time in grade is the development of patience on the part of the testee. Patience is one of the four fundamental values that my Grandmaster displays in his dojang (Patience, silence, effort, and courtesy). Personally I've seen the system work well. People don't even ask until they've at least met the requirement and typically they have significant development by then. Also I had one of my students choose to NOT test, because they thought they needed more time "I don't need to test as fast as possible or anything". But, then he got sick and only came home in hospice care shortly before he passed away. So then just before he died I presented him with his 3rd Degree Black belt certificate and I had to literally convince him that he deserved it. Here's a comment about the experience I made at the time... "I was honored to be able to make that presentation to David last Friday at his home -- before he passed away. I was again impressed with his character when he didn't want us to do that. I literally had to convince him he deserved it, and it was something I wanted for him long beforehand. I recently had a phone call from someone who wanted to become black belt as quick as possible. In contrast we have David who had high standards and lived as a black-belt -- not just around his waist -- but in his heart and mind as well; and did his best to fulfill those high standards and inspired those around him. After we shook hands (in good Korean martial form with his left hand under his elbow) at presenting him with his belt and certificate -- with tears in his eyes David said he was proud to be part of Chung Do Kwan. And David we are indeed all proud you have been part as well." The full text is at... http://www.coloradobluewave.org/MrCurtisMemories/ I was happy to make the presentation, but it would've been nicer to have it done when he was doing well. I had also heard about our Grandmaster having to give a 2nd degree black belt to someone after their death -- just not the way you want to do it. Anyway, none of us lives forever there needs to be a balance between advancing too quickly and too slow. I figure if you have someone else determine those standards for you -- they are the most likely to get it right.... Erik Kluzek Head Instructor Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts http://www.coloradobluewave.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Erik Kluzek To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:15:20 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Someone in Colorado-Springs.. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Someone talked about looking for a school in Colorado Springs... Some good people I know about are Rod and Lisa Preble in Colorado Springs. See their web-site at... http://www.rockymountainchungdokwan.com/ I don't know if that fits what you are looking for at all -- but there you go... Erik Kluzek Head Instructor Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts http://www.coloradobluewave.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --__--__-- Message: 6 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:30:21 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Very well said sir...I feel exactly the same way....I hope that doesn't concern you that we are on the same wave length!! LOL Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_1 12008 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:42:36 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] time in grade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can make it easier. Send $2000 USD and I will send you a beautiful certificate and embroidered belt saying you are a black belt!* Robert Martin *fine print -- No return or refund. Skills demonstrated are those of the purchaser. If they get their ass kicked it's their own fault. They should have spent more on the advanced black belt. Message: 7 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:16:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: time in grade To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...the new phenom in martial arts....Testing out. Walk in school demonstrate all material for a grade and skip it like in college....lol. coming to a dojang near you!   Jye -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 5.6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 4069 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:45:44 -0500 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang" Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: time in grade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye nigma wrote: >lol...the new phenom in martial arts....Testing out. Walk in school >demonstrate all material for a grade and skip it like in college....lol. >coming to a dojang near you! And if we all agree to honor this system, I can hold a first degree in all KMAs in, what, less than a month! Bringing new meaning to "another notch on your belt"! All in fun, and in the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:56:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Vetran's Day Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We honor the men and women that have given all for our great nation on the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, Veteran's Day, today. Thank you all. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:21:58 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Time in grage across the board Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In college, there have been cases of students skipping through to doctoral level as they demonstrated high ability, it's commonplace for people to advance rapidly through a bachelors degree, soldiers skip rank for heroism and people skio ranks in civil service routinely. I have skipped students in color belt testing as some kids come with experience from other schools or basically because they are very good. Skipping once through dan rank from 2nd to 4th dan can sometimes be justified as students change schools and are sometimes held in grade too long But...skipping from 5th to 9th dan, getting a 13th dan and all the other hokey stuff is just stupid. Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:00:52 -0500 From: aburrese@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: blog Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain, Thanks for sharing. I like your blog. Joe Cheavens **************************** Thanks Joe! I've been working on my website and blogs a lot lately to add more reviews, articles, products, etc. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 12 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:37:06 -0500 From: aburrese@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Thank You Veterans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you to all Veterans! I thanked Veterans with a little message in my blogs as well: http://www.burrese.com/attackbackblog.html Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:09:23 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] list down or slow Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The list will likely be down the next few days while I take a quick trip to Wyoming. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest