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From the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Tue Nov 25 18:08:36 2008 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id mAQ08ZH04585 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:08:35 -0600 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8186B2822B; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:49:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:48:22 +0100 Message-ID: <20081126014822.21566.36338.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #318 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Time in rank (Gordon Okerstrom) 2. RE: traditional attire (michael tomlinson) 3. Re: traditional attire (daomyer@aol.com) 4. Re: Time in rank (Jye nigma) 5. RE: Dan Skipping/Tradition (J R Hilland) 6. RE: Re: Dan Skipping/Tradition (Rick Clark) 7. RE: Time in rank (michael tomlinson) 8. RE: RE: Dan Skipping/Tradition (Rick Clark) 9. dan rank (J R Hilland) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:06:47 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There it is. Well said sir. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 2 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] traditional attire Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:07:55 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net LOL...actually it should....but all the humidity and sweat leaves a film of light syrup on the mats....it's crazy sometimes how hot it actually is down here in the summer...nothing like breaking into a complete body sweat just walking to your car to GO to HKD class...everytime I watch the national weather channel and they show your neck of the country I always think of you...and then I usually say...."damn, that is cold"!!! Michael Tomlinson ps...Jere..maybe you could design and market a series of doboks made for the north....maybe one in fleece for the spring, and one in goose down for the winter, and one in fishnet for the summer!!! > From: hapkido@far.midco.net> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:23:45 -0600> Subject: [The_Dojang] traditional attire> > Here in the north pole (aka North Dakota) we will often wear 4 or 5 dobok at> once. Got to layer your clothing. Not those thin little rip-me-when-you-grab> kind mind you, but the heavy (easy-for-a-good-choke) yudo style dobok. It is> kind of nice, you take a hard fall and just bounce back on your feet with> all that padding. So Michael, when you take a fall, with all the heat and> humidity, does your skin stick to the mats like Velcro? :)> > << most of the time>>>> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_1 12008 --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] traditional attire Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:07:03 -0500 From: daomyer@aol.com Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am almost picturing a weebles wobbles defense to all take downs. Dave O. Here in the north pole (aka North Dakota) we will often wear 4 or 5 dobok at once. Got to layer your clothing. Not those thin little rip-me-when-you-grab kind mind you, but the heavy (easy-for-a-good-choke) yudo style dobok. It is kind of nice, you take a hard fall and just bounce back on your feet with all that padding. So Michael, when you take a fall, with all the heat and humidity, does your skin stick to the mats like Velcro? :) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:53:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Time in rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On a side note. I just read that Ed O'neal (al bundy) got his BB after 15 years in BJJ.   Jye --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Gordon Okerstrom wrote: From: Gordon Okerstrom Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in rank To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 12:06 PM There it is. Well said sir. Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:53:48 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Dan Skipping/Tradition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I was fine with your post until I hit this sentence and I couldn't disagree more! I have seen so many on the mats with a black belt in hapkido who simply doesn't even have the abilities of a 3 month yellow belt. It belittles those who earned it. BTW, I have turned down promotions and I am still glad I did, as they were not earned. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:44:51 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Dan Skipping/Tradition To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Michael, > From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] > Rick I feel what you are saying with a lot of your post but I also > noticed > that on your website everyone in every photo is wearing a belt and > every > instructor states what belt rank they are right under their names..so > obviously rank is quite important in your organization or it appears to > be...Michael Tomlinson [Rick] Perhaps we are looking at different web sites but I don't recall that rank is posted under every photos of the black belts. Yes there are photos of people with black belts, but I just don't recall ranks being posted to the web with photos. Some of the guys have rank with their name in the links to their clubs, but I would say that that would be about 25% of them if not less. I don't think that rank is unimportant, but it is important in many ways. But rank can be abused, it does have a commercial benefit, and other benefits as well. Any yes there are things about rank that are just downright silly. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 7 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Time in rank Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:35:52 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net now that is cool.... Michael Tomlinson > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:53:09 -0800> From: kingjye@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Time in rank> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> > On a side note. I just read that Ed O'neal (al bundy) got his BB after 15> years in BJJ.> > Jye> > --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Gordon Okerstrom wrote:> > From: Gordon Okerstrom > Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in rank> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 12:06 PM> > because the fact that you don't want to put the time in tells the true tale> of who you are...Michael Tomlinson>> > There it is. Well said sir.> > Gordon Okerstrom> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_access_1 12008 --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:01:07 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Dan Skipping/Tradition To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi JR, > From: J R Hilland [mailto:hapkido@far.midco.net] > << TAKE > IT! Never ever turn down a promotion. You never know when and if it > may > become important to you.>>> > > I was fine with your post until I hit this sentence and I couldn't > disagree > more! I have seen so many on the mats with a black belt in hapkido who > simply doesn't even have the abilities of a 3 month yellow belt. It > belittles those who earned it. BTW, I have turned down promotions and I > am > still glad I did, as they were not earned. [Rick] You talk about individuals who do not meet up to your standards - yet someone has signed their name on the certificate and said they have the standard to be X rank with me or my association. Here is a problem I have with turning down a promotion. As you may recall from my post I turned down a promotion in Korea. The local Koreans said I could wear my black belt for the first class and "IF" I measured up to their standard I could wear the black belt (the rank was from Son Duk Son's organization and I was in a Chung Do Kwan dochang). Anyway, after the class they wanted me to move up a dan rank, and by the time my tour of duty would have been over I would have probably moved up one more rank (quick I know). BUT here comes the rub - I came back to the US, the organization I was with did not have an interest in promotion non-Korean's, and I stayed in rank for about 6 years. Yes I did work our and yes it was with the same organization, and yes I did my best to help the organization and instructors. Eventually I did move up in rank, in large part because I left Son's organization and got with one of my instructors from Korea who had moved to the US. BUT I would not have had the problems I had IF I had taken the rank when offered. Am I pissed off? You bet I am - I have a lot of resentment for some instructors of my in the past, for a number of reasons. But then that's another story. The long and short of it for me is, when someone who has the ability to promote you and THEY feel you represent their system, their association, and their name well enough to put pen to paper, well I don't feel like arguing with them. If you want to put that promotion in the desk drawer and never open it - that's well and good. BUT if you ever find that that rank can be useful for you, your students, or your friends - well then you have that bit of paper. As you can tell from the tone of my posts I have a lot of resentment for politics and political maneuvers. I promised myself if I could ever be in a position to help others I would do so, I don't want others to go through the grief I did coming up through the ranks. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:50:30 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] dan rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Some folks think rank is something that is collected, like collecting stamps or coins. Others think it is simply a marketing gimmick so that they can outrank everyone in the phone book. For some it is an ego thing. Even others think it is something that should be bought and sold like a commodity. Even others think that rank is something earned through hard work and technical ability. Simply put, if you had your rank given to you, it has little value except as a tool for advertising, posturing or some other purpose. If you earned it, then it something you worked hard for and respect. Rank should simply be a measure of your hard work, time and dedication. To quote GM West: "You can tell how hard an instructor has worked for his rank by how hard he makes others work to get it." Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest