Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 02:48:22 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #321 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Time in Rank (michael tomlinson) 2. RE: dan rank (michael tomlinson) 3. training in Korea (zisheged@aol.com) 4. RE: Thanksgiving (Thomas Gordon) 5. Happy Thanksgiving to all (mdealba@comcast.net) 6. Regarding Dobahk trim (Curt McCauley) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Time in Rank Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:38:09 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Very well said Gordon... you hit that nail right on the head IMHO... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_1 12008 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] dan rank Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:34:36 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick writes: What would you say if I had told you that I know a > person who went from white belt to being ready to test for their 1st dan > in 6 months but did not tell you how many hours per day they trained? > > Rick Clark > www.ao-denkou-kai.org I would say this is an example of the man with the seat belt on in the lake again.... we practice 1 hour and 45 minutes two to three times a week, and that ONLY covers HKD..and I plan on doing this until the day I drop dead..whenever that is..when I was training for my first dan under one of Master Whalen's first generation black belts (Steve Mortel) I went to class three times a week for 2 and a half hours each class...times almost 4 years before I received my 1st dan..plus a lot of Saturdays I would go over to Steve's home and we would remove all of his living room furniture and put the mats down and just me and him and his son would go over joint locks and throws only from 9am until 6pm..I didn't care how many times a week I practiced and I didn't care how many hours it added up to, I have NEVER counted hours of training....I only care that when I practiced HKD I felt better and had fun and my techniques improved(and I still feel that way every class)...and then my instructor would tell me when I was ready to test..my instructor also used me as the fall guy for every test in class he did for every upper belt student..I loved that because I got to "feel" the advanced techniques..I looked at this as an honor, not a burden that he used me in such a manner...I went through all the geups...9 geups in all and learned every technique on every belt sheet....and that was ALL I focused on...not the belts or hours accumulated...to actually learn all the tecniques from the old Korea Hapkido Association and all the geup belt sheets in six months and be able to do them all very well and from muscle memory would be a real trick...one that I don't see happening...but again everyone is different..maybe our quality control is quite a bit different than others...to give you an example I have one student who is a young man that practices just as much at home with his father as he does in class....and I tell him he is getting very good..he just smiles and bows and thanks me and never asks me to advance his rank..he has been with me for over 3 years now...because of his attitude and training one day he will be a great black belt and someone I'll be proud to promote...but it won't happen tomorrow or in six months..if someone is focused on the hours and days they train then IMO they are missing the whole concept of what we do...you can't let all these HKD techniques we practice sink in to your being in six months no matter who your are...oh I'm sure others have been promoted in six months.....but not by me chief... Michael Tomlinson > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows Mobileฎ. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119642556/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:19:19 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] training in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Several folks have pointed out that getting a blackbelt in Korea takes about one year. They proffered this arguement to show that time in grade in America is porrly conceived. The fact is, in Korea they practive 4-5 times a week in longer sessions. Taekwondo, hapkido and Yudo are part of the physical education program in Korean High Schools. Needless to say, blackbelt is a rather common thing there. Our students practice 2-3 times weekly and needless to say, not as rigorously. Simply look at the physical shape of American kids and its enough to make you sick. It took me 4 years to get my BA. I could have gotten it in 3 years but I'd have killed my summers. If it did take 3 years it still would have been time in grade.? If we routinely (exceptions happen all the time) advanced students beyond the time required, we would wind up selling belts only.? I had a master that posted the entire curriculum for each color and black belt on the walls. He coupled this with pictures of tech niques done well. At the end of this curriculum he wrote, "Each of these techniques must be performed very well for promotion and this represents the minimum you must perform. Of course if you ask to be promoted you will be delayed 3 months for your arrogance".? I give that man a lot of credit for caring that much of his students to want them to be good and modest. Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Thanksgiving Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:55:53 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes, hope everyone in the states enjoys the holiday and reflects on why we should be thankful. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 17-19, 2009 www.GordonMartialArts.com/new/2009-0419 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: mdealba@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:47:03 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Thanksgiving to all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wishing you all a wonderful Thanksgiving. Hopefully you can be with your loved ones. Let us all be thankful and grateful for all our blessing. With much respect and brotherhood, Grand Master Michael De Alba Modern Farang Mu Sul International -- **CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE** This email communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the designated recipient named above. Distribution, reproduction or any other use of this transmission by any party other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:27:58 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Regarding Dobahk trim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear folks, I think that someone in a recent post, mentioned or asked about color lapels and Do Bahks being underwear or some such thing. So I started digging around all the printed matter I own about KMA. Please remember most of my data is related to Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, and the teachings of Hwang Kee (Founder), his son H.C. Hwang Kwan Jang nim, and my seniors who have had a connection with this organization for fifty years or more. So the information I am passing to you all is related to the History of the Moo Duk Kwan, founded in November of 1945 Several things happened from 1953 (right at the close of the Korean Conflict) through 1961, which is called: "1953 - 1961 Prime period of the Moo Duk Kwan" ๔€‚„ Use of Huh Ri ๔€‚„ Do Bohk Trims (1954) ๔€‚„ The First Goodwill Internationals (1955) ๔€‚„ Dan Bon ๔€‚„ Publication ๔€‚„ Physic / Science application ๔€‚„ Moo Yei Do Bo Tong Ji (1957) - Rebirth of Soo Bahk Do ๔€‚„ Korean Soo Bahk Do Association (1960.6.30) ๔€‚„ Moo Duk Kwan patch ๔€‚„ Yuhk Ro Hyung, Chil Song Hyung ๔€‚„ Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa ๔€‚„ Founding purpose of the Federation ๔€‚„ Action philosophy (Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee's life journey) More information about the Current trimmed Do Bahk historical significance can be found : http://www.soobahkdo.ch/html/e_soo_bahk_do.html This page has a photo at the bottom of clothing from the KoGu Ryo Dynasty, It is said that these museum photos were intrumental in Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee's decision to add the trim to our uniforms, in honor of the Three kingdoms era. (Beginning somewhere in the third Century AD. Ko Gu Ryo, Paekche, and Silla) In modern day KMA This was done in 1954, prior to Korea's political turmoil and emegence of the TaeKwondo movement in 1961 or thereabouts. Apparently after Moo Duk Kwan members started wearing the trimmed Do Bahks, other styles started sporting similar trimmed uniforms. It is thought that this was done to pull the looks of Korean Martial arts uniforms away from the Japanese Gi. Speculation on my part. On a related note, We have been told by very senior members of the Moo Duk Kwan that directly after the Korean Conflict that uniforms were un available. The US was shipping a lot of food and supplies to South Korea to help them get back on their feet. Flour came in cotton sacking, which many mothers and wives of practioners, bleached and sewed in to Do Bahk. What does this have to do with wearing or not wearing Do Bahks, fishnet do Bahks, shorts etc. And Rank / time regulations? I would have to go with the quote from Mr. Okerstrom and add that observance,study and understanding of the traditions, philosophies, and history of our arts, are a very important part of maturing in one's art. And this takes TIME! "Can this mental and spiritual growth occur in a shorter time as well? I think not." Gordon Okerstrom I hope some of this information is useful. Have a great thanksgiving weekend. And make sure your turkey is dressed in........Dobahk Sincerely in the Moo Duk Kwan, and martiall way. Curt McCauley Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest