Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:01:05 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #327 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hoshinsul origins (Jye nigma) 2. WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (final part) (Jye nigma) 3. WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (part II) (Jye nigma) 4. WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (part III) (Jye nigma) 5. WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (part I) (Jye nigma) 6. Something Wrong? (Frank Clay) 7. Re: Testing results (zisheged@aol.com) 8. 3rd WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships (The_Dojang) 9. Poomsae in the 2009 Universiade (The_Dojang) 10. RE: Soo Bahk Do (Curt McCauley) 11. RE: Hoshinsul origins (michael tomlinson) 12. Hapkido 9th Dan for GM JR West (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:37:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hoshinsul origins Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I found this to be an interesting question- jye   Where did the techniques of Ho Sin Shul come from? Did any of the grandmasters cross train and bring those arts into TSD? How is the origin of Ho Sin Shul explained in your dojang? --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (final part) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here in the West the problem worsened, because by-and-large, Asian martial arts took root here through businesses offering instruction in martial arts.  My sifu, Master Frank Yee Chee Wai, himself a staunch traditionalist, taught us that the meaning of traditionalism in martial arts has almost nothing to do with preserving cultural nuances or outmoded martial methods.  He taught us that the meaning of traditional is to have the discipline and perseverance to do one thing for a long period of time to become an expert/specialist in that particular thing.  Moreover, he taught us that there is a big difference in being talented and being trained, and that regardless of how talented one may be, there are certain things that unless he is trained in, he will never acquire.  Hence the second part of being traditional, from my sifu's perspective, is respect for your teacher/superior, for if they didn't want you to know, you simply would not know.  Lastly, he taught us that, in the true martial tradition, what is being passed is hundreds of years of military research and development, and as a result directly implies field testing, innovation, further development, etc.  This is the true meaning of Traditional Martial Arts.   Interestingly, this definition of traditionalism fits nicely with the term "kung fu."  Use of this term to denote Chinese martial arts is recent, and its meaning has nothing to do directly with fighting.  The term implies a skill that took sustained effort over a period of time to acquire, and is used to describe anyone who has acquired any skill through hard work for a long period of time.  So a kung fu man is a man of accomplishment; a specialist.  A "traditional" martial artist is a military specialist, dedicated to preserving a military tradition.  All the various martial styles of today are made up of generations of accumulated knowledge from various sources, and so are truly "mixed martial arts" in essence.  Further, their methods developed not in fancied imaginations of armchair soldiers, but in real combat situations, and as such are "reality-based."  It is only in the present day, where these arts are no longer the predominant military science, that names, methods, and "stylistic differences" are an issue-and that only because the majority of the practitioners are not military-minded. "Military-mindedness" is defined as a state of mind that recognizes a "mission" greater than themselves (family, spouse, community, country, etc.), and that they are merely a tool dedicated to the success of the mission.   If the day ever comes that firing lead projectiles at a high velocity becomes obsolete, and there are those that wish to preserve and further develop that science, then we may see a " Ft. Benning " style or a " Camp Lejune " style of firing an AR-15.  However, remembrance of the nature of the tradition at its core makes it very hard for us to forget its real purpose, and what it is we would really be preserving.  It is a fact that we have today in the martial world the various categories of "traditional," "mixed/eclectic" and "reality-based."  However, within all of these groupings the vast majority of the people making up these groups are not military-minded, while only a small minority in each is.  Since "martial" means "military," and the true meaning of martial traditionalism is to preserve, nurture and advance a particular aspect of the military science, then the real "traditionalists" exist in each of these categories, albeit they are not the majority.   The civilian-minded merely do martial arts; the military-minded are Martial Artists, and in carrying on the tradition of military excellence, are rightly called Traditional Martial Artists --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (part II) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a very sad, but unfortunately astute assessment of the current state of martial arts, not just here in the West, but abroad.  In this article we will attempt to honestly examine this condition, and further, to explore the issues that gave, and give, rise to the current situation.  The "traditionalists" (myself included), cannot blame the "MMA'ers" or the "Reality-Based" martial artists for their disdainful view of what the majority calls "traditionalism" in martial arts, for they are merely pointing out a condition that existed long before the advent of MMA or Reality-Based martial arts.  Indeed, the emergence of these martial categories, in my humble opinion, is an attempt to correct the tarnished view of martial arts' combat efficiency in real-time situations due to the untested, and hence unrealistic, expectations of many martial artists' abilities, and for that respect is due.    --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:20:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (part III) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In large part the problem lies with a gross misunderstanding of what the phrase "traditional martial arts" actually means.  This faulty definition stuck, and began being perpetuated by all, especially by those that would use the faulty definition to hide a lack of combat effectiveness in the name of "preserving a dying art form" or "passing on an historical treasure. To be sure, preserving a particular discipline is a worthwhile and necessary aspect of the martial craft, but the question begs, just what is it that we as martial artists are tasked with preserving and passing?  The misunderstanding of martial traditionalism actually started before the Asian martial arts found their way to the West.  Martial, first and foremost means military, and from the dawn of civilization to the present, military might exists to support the political infrastructure, and stands as protector of all the citizens enjoy.  With this in mind we can expect the military complexion to change as the politics of the nation it serves changes.  We see this in how the conflict between ..:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /> Okinawa and Japan influenced the development of Karate, and how Boxer Rebellion in 1900, the Communist takeover in 1949 and the Cultural Revolution in 1966 influenced Kung Fu.  The parallel with both in these instances is that during these crucial times a de-militarization took place, enforced by the predominant political power.  When Japan won the conflict for the control of Okinawa (which was heavily influenced by Chinese culture and martial arts), thetranslation of the  collective name of the Okinawan combat methods, Kara-Te, was changed from its original meaning of "China Hand" to "empty hand," reflecting the disarming of the Okinawan resistance.  In Japan, military advisors such as Jigoro Kano and Morihei Ueshiba wisely pronounced their own de-militarization, transforming their own methods from "jutsu/jitsu", which implies "military truth/technique" to "do" which means "way" and implies a non-military path.  So Jujutsu became Judo, Aikijutsu became Aikido.  When the Communists came to power in China two of the communities targeted for suppression and control were the religious and martial communities, as they both had a long history in China for giving birth to revolutions and peoples' uprisings against the government.  The forced de-militarization of the Chinese martial arts and the creation of wu shu (literally and ironically, 'military technique') as the national sport of China , is well known.  The Chinese Nationalists, bitter rivals to the Communists, refuse to call their martial arts wushu for this reason, and use the phrase kuo shu (literally 'national technique') instead.  Because of this, in China and abroad, the term wushu denotes very athletic, martial-looking performance art, while the term kuoshu is synonymous with authentic Chinese military science.    --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:17:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? (part I) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net interesting blog entry by sifu Sharif, check it out and let me know what you think of his assessment of the MA.- Jye WHAT IS A TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTIST? Hey, everyone knows that nowadays there exist three general categories for martial arts styles.  There are the more recent categories of "Mixed Martial Arts" and "Reality-Based Martial Arts", both of which strongly emphasize combat functionality above and beyond anything else, albeit from their own unique perspectives.  Then there are those "Traditional" guys; you know-the old square-minded guys that swear by preserving outdated and outmoded tenets like "history" and other meaningless cultural trappings, along with equally outdated combat methods.  These pesky "traditionalists," in an effort to cover their combat ineptness, often hide behind phrases like "oh, I can't demonstrate that technique for you; it's a secret," or, "it's too dangerous; I might kill you accidentally."    --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Frank Clay To: the_dojang Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:28:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Something Wrong? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kimberly, The martial arts in their current form are about, in part, self improvement. When I came up we were taught that the point of testing was to let a qualified judge determine the increase in your skill. Ok fine. Now how do you improve if you don't know what to work on? In my mind you did the right thing and I frankly wish I had students like you who care enough to ask what they did wrong. Frank --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:27:46 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Testing results Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A little surprised to hear that some folks aren't being told what they did poorly on a test. When I test, I usually assemble a board with my blackbelts. We use score sheets, average results and them enter them on a master sheet. Each student gets a copy. Most people think they do better on forms then they actually do. Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:10:05 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 3rd WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Preparations for 3rd WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships in Ankara, Turkey Go Smoothly 02 Dec 2008 Preparations for the 3rd WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships slated for Dec. 16-18, 2008 in Ankara, Turkey are going smoothly, organizers say. "Everything is okay with our preparations for the championships and we are ready for the event," said Mr. Metin Sahin, president of the Turkish Taekwondo Federation. "On behalf of the Organizing Committee, we would like to ensure that we will make every possible effort in organizing a successful championship of the highest technical level," said Mr. Sahin. "About 50 countries have expressed their intention to participate in the Championships." The three-day event, which will take place at the Mustafa Ozbek Sporthall, is promoted by the World Taekwondo Federation and is organized by the Turkish Taekwondo Federation. As part of its efforts to further expand the global taekwondo population, the WTF launched the Poomsae Championships in Seoul, Korea in September 2006 to draw 584 athletes and officials from 57 countries. The second edition of the Poomsae Championships was held in Incheon, Korea in November 2007, attracting about 500 athletes and officials from 50 countries. The first and second Poomsae Championships were held shortly after the 2nd and 3rd Korea Open International Taekwondo Championships, respectively. "The Turkey Poomsae Championships has a special meaning as they are held outside Korea for the first time," Mr. Sahin said. "Reflecting the high popularity of taekwondo in Turkey, the National Turkish TV (TRT) will broadcast the championships both in live and delayed formats." In a Nov. 27, 2008 letter to the WTF, the Organizing Committee of the 2009 Summer Universiade confirmed that, despite financial contstraints, both taekwondo kyorugi and poomsae will be included, as planned, in the official program of the 2009 Universiade scheduled for July 1-12, 2009 in Belgrade, Serbia. Mr. Metin, the bronze medalist in the men's middleweight category in the taekwondo competition at the 1988 Seoul Olympic Games, said, "Taekwondo is the second most popular and successful sport in Turkey after soccer." Turkey earned one silver and one bronze medal at the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games. "About 180,000 taekwondo practitioners are registered with the Turkish Taekwondo Federation," he said. He said that three courts will be installed at the 8,500-seat Mustafa Ozbek Sporthall. "We will conduct a total of 16 anti-doping tests for the first-ranked athlete in individual competitions, and random tests among the first-ranked pair or team athletes." For a successful operation of the Poomsae Championships, the WTF set up an ad-hoc WTF Poomsae Committee, headed by Mr. Sung-chon Hong of the Philippines, a member of the WTF Council. The other committee members are Mr. Kyu-hyung Lee of Korea, Mr. Ki-young Cheong of Egypt, Mr. Myung-soo Chang of Korea, Mrs. Victoria Serbin of the United States, and Mr. Young-ghil Park of Italy. Athletes will compete for 16 gold medals up for grabs at the Poomsae Championships. After performing two of the four 1st compulsory poomsae predetermined by the WTF, the top 50 percent of participants will qualify for the next round according to the average score of the two performances. The top 50 percent of participants would be required to perform two of the four 2nd compulsory poomsae predetermined by the WTF. The top eight athletes of each category (individual, team and pair) will be selected according to the average score of the two performances. The top eight athletes of each category would be required to perform the remaining two 2nd compulsory poomsae. The ranking of the top three athletes of each category will be decided by the average scord of the two performances. In the case that there are less than eight individuals or teams per division, the contestants will automatically qualify for the final round. Turkey won three silver medals and two bronze medals at the inaugural Poomsae Championships in 2006, and it clinched six silver medals and one bronze medal at the 2007 Poomsae Championships. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:11:29 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Poomsae in the 2009 Universiade Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Poomsae in the 2009 Universiade 01 Dec 2008 On the occasion of the 3rd WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships on Dec. 16-18, 2008, the WTF is pleased to announce that its discipline of poomsae will be introduced, as scheduled, in the official program of the 25th Summer Universiade scheduled for July 1-12, 2009 in Belgrade, Serbia. Poomsae is gaining growing popularity as a sport for all. The success of the Turkey WTF World Taekwondo Poomsae Championships to be held outside Korea for the first time would further help develop Poomsae worldwide. Due to financial constraints, the Organizing Committee of the 25th Universiade recently decided to drop the following sports from its official program - flatwater canoeing, rowing, karate, shooting, wrestling and handball. However, on November 27, 2008, the Organizing Committee confirmed in its letter to the WTF that both taekwondo kyorugi and poomsae will be included in the official program as scheduled. The inclusion of poomsae is testament to the concerted efforts put in by the WTF to develop all aspects of taekwondo at the university level. The kyorugi competitions will be held on July 1-5, 2009. The schedule of the poomsae competitions are still in discussion and will be informed to all member national associations in due time. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:12:58 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Soo Bahk Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Why are dobok lapels trimmed in moodukkwan? I thought we covered this. Although I am absolutely certain why, we have been told that the trimmed uniform closely resembles mens clothing worn during the Three Kingdoms era of Korean history. (Ku Gu Ryu Dynasty) Go to the Swiss Soo Bahk Do site and look at the bottom of the page. Museum photograph of Koguryu Han Bok: http://www.soobahkdo.ch/html/e_soo_bahk_do.html Curt McCauley Chief Instructor Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 11 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Hoshinsul origins Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:01:44 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In our dojang Ho Shin Sool is called "Hapkido", it is my understanding that Ho Shin Sool is just a term that designates "techniques"...I'm sure some on here could add a lot more to it then me...Michael Tomlinson> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 16:37:50 -0800> From: kingjye@yahoo.com> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Subject: [The_Dojang] Hoshinsul origins> > I found this to be an interesting question- jye> > Where did the techniques of Ho Sin Shul come from? Did any of the grandmasters> cross train and bring those arts into TSD? How is the origin of Ho Sin Shul> explained in your dojang?> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Suspicious message? There’s an alert for that. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_1 22008 --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 10:16:07 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido 9th Dan for GM JR West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We've just learned that Gm JR West has been officially promoted to 9th Dan by the Korea KidoHae. He has also been appointed to the Senior Board of Masters for the Korea KidoHae. 1st Dan in '67. 9th Dan in '08. Congrats to GM West!!! Ray --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest