Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:59:01 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #333 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. plantar fasciitis (Dennis McHenry) 2. plantar fascitis (Jerry) 3. Re: Two big pains (zisheged@aol.com) 4. RE: test results sheet (Joel McTague) 5. Re: 3rd dan skip test (Joel McTague) 6. RE: bone spurs and plantar fasciitis (julie) 7. Testing Strangers or Going to a Stranger to Test (B.J. Pritchett) 8. 3rd Dan Skip Test (Artcrane) 9. RE: Testing Strangers or Going to a Stranger to Test (Rick Clark) 10. Re: 3rd dan skip test (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) 11. RE: 3rd dan skip test (sinmoohapkido hanwangsoolkwan) 12. Re: 3rd dan skip test (Lasich, Mark D.) 13. Re: Re: 3rd dan skip test (Anthony Zahler) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:27:45 -0600 From: "Dennis McHenry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] plantar fasciitis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've had plantar fasciitis a few years ago. Many times, I couldn't get out of the bed and walk in the morning. I would have been in *big trouble* if it would have happened in my other foot at the same time. Took a while to warm up before I could move around or walk at all. On the suggestion of someone I don't remember, I put a tennis ball inside of a sock to roll my foot around on (massage). By stepping on the sock with my good foot, I could roll my bad foot on the ball without it squirting away across the room. I had it at my work desk most of the time (I was working from home) and whenever I thought about it I rolled my foot on that ball. I worked it on my heel and arch areas of my foot. I also tended to have it at my easy chair and used it while watching TV. Eventually, it seemed to work itself out and go away. I assume working my foot on that ball helped tremendously. Mac --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:29:59 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Jerry Subject: [The_Dojang] plantar fascitis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi there, Both my wife and I suffered from this. All the advice about wearing the right shoes, not working out barefoot, doing stretches and so on are all on target for my own experiences. In my case, it took 3 cortisone injections and 6 months to get through the experience. I also wear inserts in my shoes that help me a lot. My local Podiatrist was a great help, I suggest you see one as well. Jerry -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin It's also true that those who would give up privacy for security are likely to end up with neither. It's not the years in your life that count, but the life in your years" "Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional" "Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement and success have no meaning." - Benjamin Franklin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:20:56 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Two big pains Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First, I trained some time ago on a wooden floor with no shoes. I developed deep plantar warts which had to be cut out with minimal anesthesia. Holy crow did THAT hurt!? Wear your shoes! Second pain....did I read correctly that a student wanted to skip a rank and ask his master??????????????? Are you kidding me???????? I would have been thrown out on my ear!? Hey...I got my Ph.D at 51? 14 years after my M.A. point? Tough luck baby!? What the devil is going on in TKD nowadays????????????????? Zeishe ( I need a tranquilizer) --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Joel McTague" To: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:30:25 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: test results sheet Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I had the opportunity today to observe one school near me and how they handle their gup tests. At the end of the test, they had each student who tested stand and the testing panel reviewed the results with each student covering what they have done well, what needs improvement, and offering advice on what to do in the future. I thought it was very interesting in the immediate feedback and how students appreciated the immediate feedback. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Joel McTague" To: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:25:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 3rd dan skip test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't completely understand all this deference to one's instructor. It's completely incongruent from everything else in our lives today. For example, the person who gets the promotion is usually the one who is agressive and asks for it. Who gets more raises - the person who doesn't ask or the person who does? And when our students are sparring, don't we teach them to be agressive? A large part of the deference comes from the Confusian notion of ancestor worship, which after it spread in Asia completely retarded the march of progress in the East and in today's world better suited for a Shaw Brothers movie than in a modern dojang. Let's face it - if there is a time in rank requirement, a student is probably in a better position to know when his/her time is ready than an instructor who has to keep several of the dates of a lot of students straight. If a student is subjected to the whims of an instructor's calendar without some definative idea of when he/she will be evaluated, there's no real motivation for the student to continue. Maybe it's because I'm out of the school system for a while and have to schedule my dan tests myself with the USAT that I have a different view, but I don't see why we have to take a step back socially and revert to a mindset that we could never be as good as our "betters" merely because they have a higher dan than we do. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "julie" To: Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:46:45 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: bone spurs and plantar fasciitis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom Metzner asked: Has anyone else had to deal with bone spurs or plantar fasciitis? How long did it take to get better? How did you manage it? Did you continue training? It is frustrating because I've never had to deal with an injury like this. Any tips? ************************* Mr. Metzner, as a practicing chiropractor and a martial artist, I am quite familiar with plantar fasciitis and bone spurs. I have suffered with plantar fasciitis myself and have treated many patients with either one or both issues. In my office I evaluate every patient with foot complaints by evaluating their gait and their stride. I ask them to bring in the shoes that they most often wear, as many people wear shoes that are improperly fitted or are simply wrong for the task that they are performing in them. I then make sure that they have no subluxations in the feet, and I give them "home therapy" for the plantar fasciitis. I tell them to place a golf ball on the floor and roll their foot over it for a few minutes twice a day. The amount of pressure that should be exerted on the golf ball should be just over the pain threshold. It should hurt a bit. Then, ice the bottom of the foot for 10-20 minutes. Doing this routine, as well as having proper footwear and chiropractic care will usually help the problem resolve within a week or two. Bone spurs are often asymptomatic, but if they become very problematic, they may need to be evaluated by a surgeon. Often times, bone spurs are only painful because of the ensuing inflammation in the fascia and/or a subluxation of the calcaneous. I did continue training when I suffered with plantar fasciitis, but I wrapped my arches and wore mat shoes for the duration. I think it took me about 2 months to get healed, but I am my own worst patient. Good luck. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me on or off list. Dr. Julie Howard --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "B.J. Pritchett" To: Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 05:38:15 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing Strangers or Going to a Stranger to Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is the general thought on testing folks you don't know at the dan level? My instructor retired/moved (military). I still train independently and with my students (as I teach), but have no where to call home. I study ITF which is not taught largely in the city I reside. I do live near (120 miles - 180 miles) two larger cities which I was thinking to search the yellow pages and make a few calls to get permission to test with them. Is that as inappropriate as it sounds? How else does one advance when their instructor no longer teaches? No, I am not ready to go test today, but I was thinking to start getting ready if I could find a place to study because I believe I should continue moving forward to set the example for my students, just not sure what is the appropriate way to move forward. Respectfully, Yours in the Arts BJ Pritchett --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Artcrane" To: Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 05:37:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] 3rd Dan Skip Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Michael T, I waited for my Master to tell me when to test. I just recently completed my 4th Dan test after waiting over 4 years since my 3rd Dan. I missed time due to surgery a couple times, so I considered it my fault that I couldn't test earlier. We had a student who was scheduled for her 2nd Dan test, and 3 days before the test she got hit by a car and tested anyway. She tested with some very sore ribs but did a good test anyway. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:47:31 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Clark Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Testing Strangers or Going to a Stranger to Test To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi BJ, If I were you - I would look for an instructor who is willing to sit down and talk with you about your situation and simply be up front with them. Unless you have a very strong reason to stay with ITF, I would consider any association and instructor that would work with you. One thing to remember is in many respects they are not doing you a favor by testing you, and teaching you. You are offering them a new club and students for their organization, as well as some people to invite to their tournaments. So you are bringing something to the table for them, and if they are a commercial school/instructor you are putting money into their pocket - and they are not having to do much to get the benifit. Look at other organizations and see what they can offer you and your students. Be honest with the instructors and there is no law that says you can only be a member of one organizations. You may want to become involved in several organizations. I am a strong advocate of the idea that you should not put all of your eggs in one basket. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:38 AM, B.J. Pritchett wrote: > What is the general thought on testing folks you don't know at the dan level?  My instructor retired/moved (military).  I still train independently and with my students (as I teach), but have no where to call home.  I study ITF which is not taught largely in the city I reside.  I do live near (120 miles - 180 miles) two larger cities which I was thinking to search the yellow pages and make a few calls to get permission to test with them.  Is that as inappropriate as it sounds?  How else does one advance when their instructor no longer teaches?  No, I am not ready to go test today, but I was thinking to start getting ready if I could find a place to study because I believe I should continue moving forward to set the example for my students, just not sure what is the appropriate way to move forward. Respectfully, Yours in the Arts BJ Pritchett _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net   Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net   --__--__-- Message: 10 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 3rd dan skip test To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:29:09 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Could you please clarify one point for me? "the had to stop training for a time and I guess if they wouldn't have they would have been testing for their 4th now" Does this mean that the person has not been training for the last 5-7 years but has put in the time? Or have they completed the full amount of training hours required during the 5-7 years required between testing for their 2nd and 4th dan? Victor Dodge Jye nigma To the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 12/05/2008 07:43 cc PM Subject [The_Dojang] 3rd dan skip test Please respond to the_dojang@martia lartsresource.net Someone emailed me and they are a 2nd dan in TKD wanting to skip 3rd dan to 4th dan. In a nutshell, the had to stop training for a time and I guess if they wouldn't have they would have been testing for their 4th now, so that is the reason behind wanting the dan skip test. Below are some questions they have about such a test: "I need to know the following before I decide to approach my current master for permission to apply for a skip dan. Price for 3rd degree test and 4th degree test. Idea what is asked of you for the physical test? (Like sit ups, push ups, running, etc. I am just coming off a tendon injury and I have to make sure I am in the proper physical shape before I even consider applying.) Basically, what else is asked during the test for 4th degree? I know the Tae Guek forms (I took the Kukkiwon certification class in San Francisco in Jan. 2008) I am also sure self defense, sparring, demonstration of kicks, and breaking would be required. Is there brick breaking during a 4th degree test? Finally what is the thesis based on? " _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 11 From: sinmoohapkido hanwangsoolkwan To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 3rd dan skip test Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:18:26 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net reply from King-Wang Sool Kwan Sin Moo Hapkido. 3rd Dan/skip test re:Dodge, Victor E. had a question Monday,8 Dec. @9:30 am. I would ask you this question: How can you teach what you skip? The physical is such a small part of the human condition. Physical training does help on rhe journey towards balancing, in harmony, with the mental and spiritual self. As you grow into a guardian of the way, your job is to help others find the way. Take all the physical training you can put under your belt, it will help you help others along the way. Success is a journey, not a destination.> Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 3rd dan skip test> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:29:09 -0600> > Could you please clarify one point for me?> > "the had to stop training for a time and I guess if> they wouldn't have they would have been testing for their 4th now"> > Does this mean that the person has not been training for the last 5-7 years> but has put in the time?> Or have they completed the full amount of training hours required during> the 5-7 years required between testing for their 2nd and 4th dan?> > Victor Dodge> > > > > Jye nigma> m> To> the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> 12/05/2008 07:43 cc> PM> Subject> [The_Dojang] 3rd dan skip test> Please respond to> the_dojang@martia> lartsresource.net> > > > > > > > Someone emailed me and they are a 2nd dan in TKD wanting to skip 3rd dan to> 4th dan. In a nutshell, the had to stop training for a time and I guess if> they wouldn't have they would have been testing for their 4th now, so that> is> the reason behind wanting the dan skip test. Below are some questions they> have about such a test:> > "I need to know the following before I decide to approach my current master> for permission to apply for a skip dan.> > Price for 3rd degree test and 4th degree test.> Idea what is asked of you for the physical test? (Like sit ups, push ups,> running, etc. I am just coming off a tendon injury and I have to make sure> I> am in the proper physical shape before I even consider applying.)> Basically, what else is asked during the test for 4th degree? I know the> Tae> Guek forms (I took the Kukkiwon certification class in San Francisco in> Jan.> 2008)> I am also sure self defense, sparring, demonstration of kicks, and breaking> would be required. Is there brick breaking during a 4th degree test?> > Finally what is the thesis based on? "> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:04:44 -0500 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang" Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 3rd dan skip test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye shared with us: >I need to know the following before I decide to approach my current master >for permission to apply for a skip dan. I believe, as I've heard: rank is a journey, not a destination. I can never see a situation where I would consider, or even want to skip a part of the journey. The optimal words here being "I" and "want" - I wouldn't argue against my instructor's assessment. I find the above quote interesting "apply for a skip dan" - this makes me wonder if this student is acting out of their own thought, or attempting to benefit from something they have already witnessed in their school? Either way, my gut reaction is if this person doesn't know what is required to test, they are probably not even ready for the 3rd dan test. On top of this, I believe in many organizations, Sa-dan (4th degree) automatically comes with the title of Master. Perhaps this adds to this student's desire to skip over 3rd? Taking my good ole time, In the spirit, Mark Lasich www.cafepress.com/karatequips --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:11:50 -0500 From: "Anthony Zahler" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: 3rd dan skip test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have seen 1st and 2nd Dans try to explain to Real Master level instructors how to do or teach a technique or concept. Not only is this Disrespectful but gives the less experienced Blackbelts a false sense of their own abilities. Except in one instance, they were incorrect in what they were trying to show also. I am sure there are some cases where a 2nd or 3rd Dan has just not tested for a long time and maybe, what I call a double test, is warranted but this was rare! It not fair to the other black belts who follow the rules, not fair to the skipper (or double tester) and not fair to their future students. I know I have had students from other "masters" and styles extol the rank of their former instructors, only to see the most sloppy and inaccurate techniques and forms that were taught by 21 year old masters or 25 year old 7th Dans(which should not be possible). How can you teach discipline but not be willing to put in the time? Same goes for honor, respect, INTEGRITY or indomitable spirit? OK, now I will step down off of my soap box, really! Skipping anything has consequences that are usually not worth it, Respectfully, Tony Zahler On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Lasich, Mark D. wrote: > Jye shared with us: > >I need to know the following before I decide to approach my current > master > >for permission to apply for a skip dan. > > I believe, as I've heard: rank is a journey, not a destination. I can > never see a situation where I would consider, or even want to skip a > part of the journey. The optimal words here being "I" and "want" - I > wouldn't argue against my instructor's assessment. > > I find the above quote interesting "apply for a skip dan" - this makes > me wonder if this student is acting out of their own thought, or > attempting to benefit from something they have already witnessed in > their school? > > Either way, my gut reaction is if this person doesn't know what is > required to test, they are probably not even ready for the 3rd dan test. > > > On top of this, I believe in many organizations, Sa-dan (4th degree) > automatically comes with the title of Master. Perhaps this adds to this > student's desire to skip over 3rd? > > Taking my good ole time, In the spirit, > Mark Lasich > www.cafepress.com/karatequips > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest