Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 02:48:22 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #349 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Season's Greetings (Rudy Timmerman) 2. real benefits of poomse/rick (Master Mark Seidel) 3. RE: RE: The real benefits of poomse-meditative exercise (Lee Morgan) 4. Re:Forms (Zisheged@aol.com) 5. Re: RE: RE: The real benefits of poomse-meditative exercise (Jye nigma) 6. Re: Re:Forms (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:03:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Season's Greetings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all. I want to wish all of the good people on the DD, and especially it's host Ray Terry to whom we are all indebted for making this list available to us, the very best of the season, Merry Christmas, and a healthy, happy, and prosperous New Year. Warmest personal regards Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Cc: Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 20:36:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] real benefits of poomse/rick Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick Points well taken, that's why you are "The Professor". No I haven't read your book my comments were meant to be somewhat rhetorical due to the many post on poomse. I will read it though! Take care mark -----Original Message----- From: Rick Clark [mailto:rick.aodenkou@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:14 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE:The real benefits of Poomse-meditative exercise Hi Mark > From: Master Mark Seidel [mailto:mastermark@comcast.net] [Rick] First a very Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to all! > Forms/Patterns/Poomse considering if you have studied and committed a dozen or so to memory, might be used in segments in self defense as a memory > response. a fight never did any resemble any part of a poomse. [Rick] I have been practicing one form for about 18 to 20 years now, and while I still remember the others I concentrate on the one. Chulgi (Naihanchi or Teki). --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:13:40 -0500 From: "Lee Morgan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: RE: The real benefits of poomse-meditative exercise Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Merry Christmas Master Seidel. I've just finished setting gifts from "Santa" under the tree for my daughter, and thought I'd read the latest on the dojang board before heading off to bed. I came across your comments from Dec. 23, and I must respecfully disagree----to a point. I will grant you your argument that: "*I do not believe that forms will retrain muscle memory because they were not designed to simulate real combative situations in today's world*", ONLY if we are talking about the TKD poomse. I will disagree with your statement when it comes to other styles--or at least Temple Boxing forms. Please let me explain my reasoning on this. I learned my first TB form about the time I went into the first grade. This form is a form called shao long jow. I practice shao long jow before and after my morning workouts, and before and after my evening workouts, and I've done so since 1971---almost every day. In college I worked as a bouncer in a local bar/pool hall, and for several years after that I worked with my state's PERT (prison emergency responce team). With these two jobs I have been in more real life combatative situations than I can remember--many of them quite serious, adrenaline pumping situations. Everytime, my body has gone through the movements of shao long jow. I've never thought about it when it happened, but afterwards I would realize that I just performed part of that form. I would do it smoothly, with speed and precision, and with relaxed power just like when I practice it everyday. Again, I have never thought about any move while defending myself--it just happens. And it's always just happened to be part of the form that I practice the most. It's not even my favorite form either! I believe the difference between my situation and the situation of the angry parent who attacked you, or the high ranked masters you've watched fighting, may be in the type of training. I practice TB in the mornings, and TKD in the evenings. In TKD we practice poomse every day, but we just go through the forms and then spar, or kick the pads, etc.. In TB, we practice a form, then we practice body conditioning associated with that form, then two man drills associated with that form, then wooden pole drills associated with that form, then self defence drills associated with that form, then we practice the form again, etc.... I've practiced both styles for many years, and the training is like comparing the philharmonic orchestra to the Rolling Stones. I like both so I listen to both, but for two completely different reasons. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Zisheged@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:45:17 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net George the expression is "Form follows function" Best way to remember that is a woman's hips are shaped the way they are so that they can have babies and so that we can look at their form! Palgwe, poomsae, tuls or whatever are valuable in and of themselves and are not necesssarily transferable to sparring. In any event, I think we've discussed them to death so far. How about discussing physical fitness and how we require that and teach it? Zesihe **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:29:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: RE: The real benefits of poomse-meditative exercise To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes Yes Yes....you've summed up what I've been saying all along. In training like that one can use their art versus kickboxing. I went from snake fist boxing to TKD wtf/itf and I experienced the same thing. In fact my tkd expression looks differet then others. What's funny is when I stopped practicing my snake fist forms they left my memory faster then my TKD forms when I stopped practicing them; but the principles and tactics are still present when I spar.   I love the comparisson between an orchestra & the rolling stones. I think may opinion about KMA is so strong that it seems like I'm dogging it, but the reality is I think by having discussions like this and seeing how other systems train KMA can learn from that and improve upon their systems. Hey Mr Morgan what I'd like to see is a TKD form exclusively trained on the wooden dummy what do you think?   Jye --- On Thu, 12/25/08, Lee Morgan wrote: Please let me explain my reasoning on this. I learned my first TB form about the time I went into the first grade. This form is a form called shao long jow. I practice shao long jow before and after my morning workouts, and before and after my evening workouts, and I've done so since 1971---almost every day. In college I worked as a bouncer in a local bar/pool hall, and for several years after that I worked with my state's PERT (prison emergency responce team). With these two jobs I have been in more real life combatative situations than I can remember--many of them quite serious, adrenaline pumping situations. Everytime, my body has gone through the movements of shao long jow. I've never thought about it when it happened, but afterwards I would realize that I just performed part of that form. I would do it smoothly, with speed and precision, and with relaxed power just like when I practice it everyday. Again, I have never thought about any move while defending myself--it just happens. And it's always just happened to be part of the form that I practice the most. It's not even my favorite form either! I believe the difference between my situation and the situation of the angry parent who attacked you, or the high ranked masters you've watched fighting, may be in the type of training. I practice TB in the mornings, and TKD in the evenings. In TKD we practice poomse every day, but we just go through the forms and then spar, or kick the pads, etc.. In TB, we practice a form, then we practice body conditioning associated with that form, then two man drills associated with that form, then wooden pole drills associated with that form, then self defence drills associated with that form, then we practice the form again, etc.... I've practiced both styles for many years, and the training is like comparing the philharmonic orchestra to the Rolling Stones. I like both so I listen to both, but for two completely different reasons. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:32:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forms can be transfered to free sparring if trained similar to step sparring.     Jye --- On Wed, 12/24/08, Zisheged@aol.com wrote: From: Zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 10:45 PM George the expression is "Form follows function" Best way to remember that is a woman's hips are shaped the way they are so that they can have babies and so that we can look at their form! Palgwe, poomsae, tuls or whatever are valuable in and of themselves and are not necesssarily transferable to sparring. In any event, I think we've discussed them to death so far. How about discussing physical fitness and how we require that and teach it? Zesihe **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000000 25) _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest