Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:53:01 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #353 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hapkido in MMA (gordo) 2. Re: Re: The certain something (Lee Morgan) 3. New year hopes (Ray) 4. RE: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: The real benefits of Poomse (Rick) (Lee Morgan) 5. RE: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: The real benefits of Poomse (Rick) (Lee Morgan) 6. Benefits of training in Jackson (was; The real benefits of Poomse) (Ray) 7. Re: Standards are cruel (zisheged@aol.com) 8. RE: Physical Fitness (Thomas Gordon) 9. RE: Re: Standards are cruel (Dennis Overall) 10. RE: Re: Standards are cruel (Jye nigma) 11. USAT 2009 club registration form (The_Dojang) 12. Re: The real benefits of poomse (J R Hilland) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "gordo" To: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:37:24 +1100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido in MMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Why aren't there more Hapkido practitioners in MMA. It has strikes, throws and submissions. It's probably one of the earliest forms of MMA but I can't think of anyone in the UFC or Pride etc who lists it as their primary skill. Most are from a wrestling, BJJ or Mauy Thai who then train as boxers. Has anyone got any idea why this situation exists --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:16:18 -0500 From: "Lee Morgan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: The certain something Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Zeishe wrote: Of course I agree with those of you that have seen muscular guys get knocked out. I certainly agree that much more must be emphasized in forms other than memorizing them. But I am absolutely certain that everyone here has seen that kid come in as a white belt and throw very good kicks, be in great shape and just take to martial arts effortlessly. I have one of those kids right now and have seen quite a few over the years.? Not sure if its just coordination, natural fighting ability or whatever; but for sure that quality is not easily taught. I have seen it developed in many students. It's my feeling that physical fitness is a natural way to build confidence, absorb that blow when it can't be avoided and usually make for a great fighter. Muscles without skill doesn't work, skill without brawn is not very effective.? My dad used to say," Brains are more important than brawn, but I assure you...if you don't have brawn you'll get your brains knocked out!" Pop was right! Happy New Year all! Zeishe Well, I have to agree with you on that one Zeishe!! Happy New Year to you too! Lee Morgan --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:24:37 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] New year hopes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USA Taekwondo hopes new year nets resolutions Brian Gomez The Gazette, Colorado Spgs Steven Lopez won't have his Olympic bronze medal turned into another gold. But the next time he competes, there might be new World Taekwondo Federation arbitration procedures and changes in WTF bylaws regarding executive council appointments. That's the goal of Colorado Springs-based USA Taekwondo, which has agreed to a stay in the Court of Arbitration for Sport appeal it filed in September that was prompted by Lopez's quarterfinal defeat at the Beijing Games. A two-time Olympic gold medalist, Lopez, 30, of Sugar Land, Texas, suffered a 2-1 overtime loss to Italian Mauro Sarmiento - his first setback since 2002 - after Indonesian referee Nam Oh Li assessed him two half-point deductions. USA Taekwondo chief executive officer David Askinas claims Lopez received no explanation for the first deduction and disputes the second deduction, in which Lopez lifted his leg to block Sarmiento's kick. "There were some good referees, but we expected better in the Olympics," Askinas said. "They refused to get the videotape. They refused to let us speak. They refused to give us a written decision. They came back and said, ‘We talked to the referee, and it's OK.' "We are astounded they wouldn't give us the courtesy in such an important match, and they had time to review it. No due process, and that's a fundamental problem with the way the WTF conducts arbitration procedures." In October, Askinas met with WTF president Chungwon Choue at the Pan American Championships in Puerto Rico, then met with Choue and WTF secretary general Jin Suk Yang in South Korea. Askinas said USA Taekwondo, with four members on the 40-person WTF council, wants "an acknowledgement there was a mistake made in Steven's match and the referee totally misapplied the rules. ... If we make significant progress, we won't have to go forward with the litigation." "We strongly suspect CAS would never overturn an Olympic decision," Askinas added. "You're in the middle of a match. Does everybody got to --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:44:32 -0500 From: "Lee Morgan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: The real benefits of Poomse (Rick) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick (I think) wrote: I wonder if TKD can be "fixed" with control of TKD firmly in the hands of groups like the ITF and WTF? The problems as I see them start with issues that revolve around power and control - and of course the money associated with power and control. Perhaps we (in the west) should do as the Koreans and before them the Japanese have done. Take control over the martial art system we have learned and change it to fit our own unique needs and desires. The Japanese did that with Karate and the Koreans did that with TKD. Many western instructors have studied the martial arts longer than the Koreans that dreamed up modern TKD and added their version of an ancient 2,000 year old martial art. I hope you're not right about that---but I'm afraid that you probably are. I guess my hope of preserving (or maybe I should say reviving) the MARTIAL ART in TKD is kept alive because there seems to be more and more interest in practical applications that work in real life situations. It is ironic don't you think? That so many of the leaders of a system that proposes to teach character (among other things) consistently exibit traits that aren't in keeping with good character? I've always been taught that honesty is a good character trait, and that dishonesty and racism are bad character traits. I've probably said way too much, but I'm going to leave it because it's what I believe. Anyway, if it came down to what you've proposed, I would certainly support that movement in whatever feeble way I can. I may be very naive, but I still believe there is hope for TKD to be considered an effective martial art though. I believe that people rise or fall to the level of expectations. If the TKD community as a whole expected to be taught effective martial arts, wouldn't the leadership of the ITF and the WTF start supporting that along with the sports part of it? What do you think? J. Lee Morgan --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:00:08 -0500 From: "Lee Morgan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: The real benefits of Poomse (Rick) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark, I'm not sure if we have met. I used to travel quite a bit with my old job and I tried to find a dojang or dojo in whatever town I was in. And so many seminars----who knows, I may have been lucky enough to have met or trained with you. Maybe we will one day. Lee --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:09:21 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Benefits of training in Jackson (was; The real benefits of Poomse) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Mark, > > I'm not sure if we have met. I used to travel quite a bit with my old job > and I tried to find a dojang or dojo in whatever town I was in. And so many > seminars----who knows, I may have been lucky enough to have met or trained > with you. Maybe we will one day. > > Lee Now is a good time to start making travel plans to come to Jackson, Mississippi to attend the bi-annual KMA event and goat roping hosted by Gm JR West. See http://hapkido.com/seminar_map.htm for details; March 13-15, 2009. I believe that the March event is #30, i.e. the 30th time the event has been held. You just might encounter martial arts nuts and list members like Master Mac, Master Hilland, Master Munyon, Dr. Kimm, Master Thomas, Master Whalen et al. Hopefully I'll be there, too. Ray --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:16:04 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Standards are cruel Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This will sound terribly uncharitible...but...everything isn't for everyone!? If I have a student that for some genetic, neurological or other impediment can't do what I require, I politely inform him and his parents that this art is not for him. I am NOT talking about someone who trained for many years, received high dan and got injured. I am talking about the on route student. If you can't do what I ask in terms of skill, performance and fitness then I direct that student elsewhere. Everyone here is free to do what they think is right. I'm an old hard ass from way back. Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Physical Fitness Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:40:19 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Personally, I don't expect a 50 year old to do the same as a 20 year old. A 20 year old should be able to kick higher or have a little more snap. To me, that's just common sense. But I do expect them to be able to tie their shoes without being winded. Sarcasm free of charge. :) I tell our instructors not to judge a person's front kicks as they sit in a wheel chair. I think the message is clear, special circumstances requires special consideration. With that said, 95% of your students shouldn't require "special consideration." Everything in rational moderation. I'm not interested in a room full of Adonis' - I am interested in being a room free of pooh black belts. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 17-19, 2009 www.GordonMartialArts.com/new/2009-0419 --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Dennis Overall To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Standards are cruel Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:28:11 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think that "everything isn't for everyone", however, I think that martial arts is for everyone. I have train children and adults with learning & physical disabilities, you change the requirements for these individuals. One cannot expect all to meet the same requirements of a person that may have youth and genetics on their side. I certainly do not train as I did in my glory days. I know of one lady that started training at the age of sixty-two, she is dedicated, and an excellant example of the mental quailities we desire in martial arts. She is an inspiration to the older martial artist. Sure, she doesn't hava jump back side kick, she can't break two or three concrete blocks, but her forms and basic techiniques are beautiful to watch, and so is her self defense. The Master never gives up on the student, only the student gives up. Master O > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:16:04 -0500> From: zisheged@aol.com> Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Standards are cruel> > This will sound terribly uncharitible...but...everything isn't for everyone!? If I have a student that for some genetic, neurological or other impediment can't do what I require, I politely inform him and his parents that this art is not for him. I am NOT talking about someone who trained for many years, received high dan and got injured. I am talking about the on route student. If you can't do what I ask in terms of skill, performance and fitness then I direct that student elsewhere. Everyone here is free to do what they think is right. I'm an old hard ass from way back.> > Zeishe> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 2008 --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:35:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Standards are cruel To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can understand where the brother with the high physical fitness standards is coming from, but those standards only mean that his students will be physically fit; this doesn't ensure that they will be top notch martial artists simply because they are fit.   My standard is that the individual has heart (no cowards allowed), is disciplined, follows instructions and is a hard worker. I can take fat, skinny, muscular, puny, etc and accomplish the goal of getting them on point. Hell, I'll take a fat person and teach them how to use their mass to their advantage, and take a puny person and show them what inner strength can do. So it's all about what people want to deal with. I personally don't have a problem with Mr Z's (sorry forgot your name) standards. I think it's time for alot of people to get into shape. At the same time my goals are different. My focus is on giving the MA back to the people. \   The commercialization of the MA has in my opinion taken the MA from the people and put it into the hands of people who can afford all the ridiculously high prices of school tuition, testing costs, farting costs, sneezing taxes so on and so forth. So my goal is 2 fold, one to make TKD get respect by showing it's a real martial art and two giving the art back to the people.   Jye --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Dennis Overall wrote: From: Dennis Overall Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Standards are cruel To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 10:28 AM I think that "everything isn't for everyone", however, I think that martial arts is for everyone. I have train children and adults with learning & physical disabilities, you change the requirements for these individuals. One cannot expect all to meet the same requirements of a person that may have youth and genetics on their side. I certainly do not train as I did in my glory days. I know of one lady that started training at the age of sixty-two, she is dedicated, and an excellant example of the mental quailities we desire in martial arts. She is an inspiration to the older martial artist. Sure, she doesn't hava jump back side kick, she can't break two or three concrete blocks, but her forms and basic techiniques are beautiful to watch, and so is her self defense. The Master never gives up on the student, only the student gives up. Master O > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:16:04 -0500> From: zisheged@aol.com> Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Standards are cruel> > This will sound terribly uncharitible...but...everything isn't for everyone!? If I have a student that for some genetic, neurological or other impediment can't do what I require, I politely inform him and his parents that this art is not for him. I am NOT talking about someone who trained for many years, received high dan and got injured. I am talking about the on route student. If you can't do what I ask in terms of skill, performance and fitness then I direct that student elsewhere. Everyone here is free to do what they think is right. I'm an old hard ass from way back.> > Zeishe> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 2008 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:24:55 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT 2009 club registration form Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USAT 2009 club registration form http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/5732/USAT_Club_Application__Read-Only_.pdf --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:02:03 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The real benefits of poomse Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just catching up on my email as I was back home in Texas for Christmas. The paragraph below really sums up the whole discussion of forms in the MA. As hapkidoin, we don't practice prearranged forms, but we are encouraged to practice a technique without a partner as much as with one. Happy New Year! Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com 30th International Hapkido & KMA Clinic March 13, 14 and 15, 2009 Information at: www.hapkido.com <<<...In the time I've been in martial arts, I noticed that every art has forms/patterns/poomse/tul. Some stylists deny it. When I've met those individuals, I ask them to explain the technique to me. Almost invariably I hear, "Well, first you..." and then I hear "step by step" on how to perform the technique. Sounds like a pattern to me. :)... Thomas Gordon>>> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest