Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:50:02 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 15 #356 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,400 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Physical fitness (Jye nigma) 2. Re: Re:Each school is different (Kimberley Warner) 3. Happy New Year! (Ray) 4. Re: Never fails (zisheged@aol.com) 5. RE: Re:Each school is different (Lee Morgan) 6. RE Each school is different (Don Ross) 7. Re: RE Each school is different (Jye nigma) 8. Re: RE: Re:Each school is different (Jye nigma) 9. Re: Re:Each school is different (Jye nigma) 10. RE: each school is different (Frank Clay) 11. RE: RE Each school is different (Dennis Overall) 12. Re: Re:Each school is different (Kimberley Warner) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Physical fitness To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I'm thinking about it. I know some kung fu guys who say if a person is training in MA to get fit they need to join the local gym because MA is for combat. So different strokes for different folks I guess.   Jye --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Jonathan Boorstein wrote: From: Jonathan Boorstein Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Physical fitness To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 3:51 PM Try ACE and other groups/sites that focus on personal fitness training. Personal trainers have diagnosis tests that not only test for personal fitness but also against age group norms with levels of excellent, good, normal, etc., for each group. JB ________________________________ From: Gordon Okerstrom To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:39:27 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Physical fitness Okay, I've searched that President's Challenge site and I haven't found a general rule of thumb, if you will. I think the basics of physical fitness are necessary for the martial arts and I want to implement a "more documented format" for this but I haven't come across a good standard. Does anyone have a format they go by that they would be willing to share? Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kimberley Warner Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Each school is different Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:45:18 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you guys. I'm a 42 year old woman that is in semi-good shape for a 42 year old woman. Then I broke my wrist in TKD at my first testing. I've told this story before but after two surgeries on my wrist and leg (getting bone and artery to fix the wrist) I would have hated to be told to leave because I can no longer do push-ups or punch or back-fist or spear hand or or or with my left hand. TKD has helped my stay active and has helped me improve focus, balance and confidence. I will never win a competition but I love it. It has also improved my belly dancing! Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind watching 25 young studs do a bunch of leg lifts but that isn't why I joined a TKD class. > ...yes it's a lot > more work on you as a teacher but my feeling is that if I help someone > one > time get out of a life or death situation then that is worth more to > my Karma > than watching 25 studs do a bunch of leg lifts....just my opinion and > as usual > it ain't worth that much... > > Michael Tomlinson > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 > 2008 > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > Kimberley Warner AOL IM: xanthepure --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:23:24 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy New Year! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Happy New Year to everyone. Be careful out there, but also be sure to have lots of fun! Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:04:52 -0500 From: zisheged@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Never fails Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It never fails that when one person makes a statment another tries to disprove with a rare anecdote. Yes, yes, yes there are the occasional 94 year old that can do great things, the occasional person wearing braces that is "cured" with TKD or someone in a wheelchair that does some very good stuff. Now then as to who is to judge??? That's simple. You judge in your dojang, I judge in mine as to what we want as an end product. Here is what I look for: a person that can do every kick effectively, that can punch with power, that is in excellent physical shape, knows his/her forms, has good lungs, firms muscles and has a terrific record in competition. I do NOT accept students that can't do all that is required. That is not short sighted, it's kind, reality based and what i want. You can accept anyone you feel will benefit, that is YOUR business. I am not running a commercial school. I want those students that share my views.? On the other hand, I truly welcome and respect all the views i hear here. It simply means students need to shop carefully for what they want. There is something for everyone out there for everybody. Zeishe --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:59:51 -0500 From: "Lee Morgan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Re:Each school is different Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can see where your coming from Zeishe. It's your school and you have the right to teach the way you see "fit" (please pardon the pun). It's good to have different schools that focus on different aspects. At the same time I can see where Master Tomlinson, Jye, and Frank are coming from as well. I think the thing is that y'all are just focusing on different goals. It seems that you are focused on helping students meet a set of solid standards (not a thing wrong with that), and they are focused on helping the students to just improve from wherever they are (again, not a thing wrong with that either). Just two different goals. The goal of an acorn is not to become an elm tree. Lee --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:38:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE Each school is different Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson! You are 110% correct. Yes, each dojang owner is free to set his own 'standards', but some, in their zeal for physical perfection have forgotten that a primary function of a martial art [Korean or otherwise] is to teach/empower the weak/infirm to defend themselves against a stronger aggressor. Others have stated previously, as we age and our physical abilities gradually decline, proper technique and attention to detail, taught by conscientious teachers become more important to us 'old dogs', than the ability to do a zillion pushups [yeah, we still do the pushups, but hey, we aren't 18 anymore - physically anyway]. Yes, those of us with less than physical perfection are more likely to need the self-defense of a MA that the fit 25 yr olds. Have enjoyed your tales of purple spandex for years, even if you are from Tipp City. pil seung, Don Ross, Milton-Union grad and former Laura resident --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:28:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE Each school is different To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am so surprised that no one mentioned the many Martial arts founders who started their study of MA because they were weak, and/or sickly.   Jye --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Don Ross wrote: From: Don Ross Subject: [The_Dojang] RE Each school is different To: "dojang_digest" Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 11:38 PM Thank you, Mr. Tomlinson! You are 110% correct. Yes, each dojang owner is free to set his own 'standards', but some, in their zeal for physical perfection have forgotten that a primary function of a martial art [Korean or otherwise] is to teach/empower the weak/infirm to defend themselves against a stronger aggressor. Others have stated previously, as we age and our physical abilities gradually decline, proper technique and attention to detail, taught by conscientious teachers become more important to us 'old dogs', than the ability to do a zillion pushups [yeah, we still do the pushups, but hey, we aren't 18 anymore - physically anyway]. Yes, those of us with less than physical perfection are more likely to need the self-defense of a MA that the fit 25 yr olds. Have enjoyed your tales of purple spandex for years, even if you are from Tipp City. pil seung, Don Ross, Milton-Union grad and former Laura resident _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Re:Each school is different To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yeah nothing wrong with his standards. The only thing I'd disagree with is saying that the art may not be for someone who isn't the arnold Swartz (oh I'm not going to continue to try and spell that name...lol) type. For me, I think everyone has the right to learn to defend themselves, so all body types apply.   Jye --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Lee Morgan wrote: From: Lee Morgan Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Re:Each school is different To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 10:59 PM I can see where your coming from Zeishe. It's your school and you have the right to teach the way you see "fit" (please pardon the pun). It's good to have different schools that focus on different aspects. At the same time I can see where Master Tomlinson, Jye, and Frank are coming from as well. I think the thing is that y'all are just focusing on different goals. It seems that you are focused on helping students meet a set of solid standards (not a thing wrong with that), and they are focused on helping the students to just improve from wherever they are (again, not a thing wrong with that either). Just two different goals. The goal of an acorn is not to become an elm tree. Lee _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:43:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Each school is different To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol....so many good things in your post. First let me say 42 isn't old at all. to all my 50 year old people you guys aren't old either. From now on let's replace the word old with the word mature. So you're not 42 years old, your 42 years mature. ;o) If you think old then you will become as you think. I wanted to post a video of a man doing a form in his advanced 80s I believe and he is strong, flexible and moves great...but I missplaced my link.   I think people look at their lives in the wrong manner. Instead of looking back and saying well I can't do this or that like I did when I was x-years younger, look forward and focus on what you can do.   Now ms. Kimberley, don't give up on competitions. There are always forms, point sparring competition. I'd say focus on your evading, footwork, and other things you may think you need to change and you'll do fine.   Jye --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Kimberley Warner wrote: From: Kimberley Warner Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Each school is different To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 6:45 PM Thank you guys. I'm a 42 year old woman that is in semi-good shape for a 42 year old woman. Then I broke my wrist in TKD at my first testing. I've told this story before but after two surgeries on my wrist and leg (getting bone and artery to fix the wrist) I would have hated to be told to leave because I can no longer do push-ups or punch or back-fist or spear hand or or or with my left hand. TKD has helped my stay active and has helped me improve focus, balance and confidence. I will never win a competition but I love it. It has also improved my belly dancing! Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind watching 25 young studs do a bunch of leg lifts but that isn't why I joined a TKD class. > ...yes it's a lot > more work on you as a teacher but my feeling is that if I help someone > one > time get out of a life or death situation then that is worth more to > my Karma > than watching 25 studs do a bunch of leg lifts....just my opinion and > as usual > it ain't worth that much... > > Michael Tomlinson > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 > 2008 > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > Kimberley Warner AOL IM: xanthepure _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Frank Clay To: the_dojang Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:40:26 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: each school is different Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Zeishe, While I have my opinions about how arrogant your last post sounds, probably due to the media itself - its kind of hard to judge a post versus intent, I'm not advocating that you train everyone who walks in your door. I disagree with your approachand thats fine. Where I throw the flag is when someone states that this art is not for someone because of frailty. as a teacher I view it as a challenge. The idea is to improve them, and that has been taught to me by Korean after Korea from the little local guys here to people like yoon Dae Un, whom I doubt you'd consider not to be fit enough for your school as a former Blue house bodyguard and captain of the JJK demo team. Then there was Lee Jae whan, former KHF VP who spent time with my fiance making sure she really made me tap hard after throughing me proprely - and she had a fused spine. Each of the teachers worked with limitations of students and pushed them to go further. This may soiund really wholisitic of me but one of the primary purposes of any martial art is self preservation. While I don't see myself awarding a dan rank to someone who cannot at least nominally perform technieu even with "special" training due to ailment, I do think they have a right to defend themselves. I think that the 125 poubd woman who might have some infermity is more likely to be hurt than the 200 pound jock. Ever seen a raped 200 pound jock? I have seen first hand martial art help people and help those people grow. Obviously not everything is for everyone. I once taught a Taijiquan class at a clinic in Thousand Oaks. I had a student who had severe MS and could barely stand. So I didn't give him pure TJQ, I gave him some hard quigong too becasue of its isomteric nature. I'm not sure if the training did anything for him other than improve his balance a little but I'll take it. There was no rank, no money and it was a learning experience for me. I learned what to do and what not to do. Remember you will also be infirm. Frank --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Dennis Overall To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE Each school is different Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:03:19 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On my school application there is a question as to why the individual wants to study martial arts. Their answers are self defense, to get stronger, better health. None of them say that they desire to feed their ego by joining a group of elitest. I explain the five tenants of TKD to each of them, and the purpose of a life sport that also serves as a form of self defense. Yes we are martial artist. People that study fighting arts and there will be bruises, cuts, and an occasional broken bone. We also have an obligation to present ourselve to the public with compassion for our fellow man and women and children. I look forward to the day that the sick, scared person that entered my dojang for lessons in martial arts, comes to me years later after training at my school and tells me that I made a difference in his or her life. Master O _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122 008 --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Kimberley Warner Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Each school is different Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:42:44 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks. I hear ya about becoming what you think. I my head I'm still 25. Looking back I can say years ago I couldn't kick someone in the head, now I can. Life is good! ;.) I'm a mom so the competition thing will probably never be my thing. I hate winning, or more accurately I hate it when the other person looses. I see that look in their eyes and I just want to give them a hug, go home cook them a good meal and bake them some cookies. I do however have very good flexibility and focus. I happen to kick butt in forms but it's not about winning it's about knowing that I have worked hard and am continuing to work on the execution of each technique and putting it all together with fluidity. I know TKD is a martial art. It's good to know that if needed I could defend myself and my kids. On Dec 30, 2008, at 11:43 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > lol....so many good things in your post. First let me say 42 isn't old > at all. > to all my 50 year old people you guys aren't old either. From now on > let's > replace the word old with the word mature. So you're not 42 years old, > your 42 > years mature. ;o) If you think old then you will become as you think. > I wanted > to post a video of a man doing a form in his advanced 80s I believe > and he is > strong, flexible and moves great...but I missplaced my link. >   > I think people look at their lives in the wrong manner. Instead of > looking > back and saying well I can't do this or that like I did when I was > x-years > younger, look forward and focus on what you can do. >   > Now ms. Kimberley, don't give up on competitions. There are always > forms, > point sparring competition. I'd say focus on your evading, footwork, > and other > things you may think you need to change and you'll do fine. >   > Jye > > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Kimberley Warner wrote: > > From: Kimberley Warner > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re:Each school is different > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 6:45 PM > > Thank you guys. I'm a 42 year old woman that is in semi-good shape for > a 42 year old woman. Then I broke my wrist in TKD at my first testing. > I've told this story before but after two surgeries on my wrist and > leg (getting bone and artery to fix the wrist) I would have hated to be > told to leave because I can no longer do push-ups or punch or back-fist > or spear hand or or or with my left hand. TKD has helped my stay > active and has helped me improve focus, balance and confidence. I will > never win a competition but I love it. It has also improved my belly > dancing! > > Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind watching 25 young studs do a > bunch of leg lifts but that isn't why I joined a TKD class. > > > >> ...yes it's a lot >> more work on you as a teacher but my feeling is that if I help someone >> one >> time get out of a life or death situation then that is worth more to >> my Karma >> than watching 25 studs do a bunch of leg lifts....just my opinion and >> as usual >> it ain't worth that much... >> >> Michael Tomlinson >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. >> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail? >> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 >> 2008 >> _______________________________________________ >> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members >> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >> Standard disclaimers apply >> Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net >> > Kimberley Warner > AOL IM: xanthepure > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,400 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net > Kimberley Warner AOL IM: xanthepure --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2008: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest